Leon Draisaitl 3rd 110+ point season in 4 years...

[MessierII]

That might be true, but it was also his prime ages and it’s not like he’s way down the list of totals though. He’s 3rd in totals points, not far back of 1st despite missing those games. The odds of him not still being 1st in totals and ES PPG if he played the rest of the games is slim given the huge per game margins we’re dealing with.

I mean Crosby from age 20-29 played 622 games with a 0.86 ES PPG, leading the league in both ES points. Draisaitl is at 0.87 for the past 5 years in 364 games. Difference is, besides Crosby’s sample being twice as long, in Crosby’s years the league averaged 1.99 ES GPG, in Draisaitl’s the league has averaged 2.34.

And I’m not trying to crap in Draisaitl here, but Crosby’s at worst the best ES scorer between Jagr’s prime and McDavid’s. The poster calling him out for the PP was absurd

None the less your cherry picking sample sizes to make your point. You did it again. You conveniently omit the 05/06 and 06/07 seasons because Crosby racked up a crap ton of pp points in those seasons coming out of the lockout.

I am also not trying to crap on Crosby or say that Leon is better that is not my belief.

 

[Regal]

None the less your cherry picking sample sizes to make your point. You did it again. You conveniently omit the 05/06 and 06/07 seasons because Crosby racked up a crap ton of pp points in those seasons coming out of the lockout.

I am also not trying to crap on Crosby or say that Leon is better that is not my belief.

Are you serious? I’m using the prime of one player to compare to the prime of another player. Like you realize I’m using a “cherry picked” sample for Draisaitl too by only using the years since he became a 100+ point player. You didn’t like comparing their best 5 years where they were similar ages (Crosby one year younger to start), because Crosby missed a lot of time during it, so I extended it to be a sample of his entire 20s so there was a huge sample, while still comparing it to the small sample of Draisaitl’s 5 best years and that somehow favours Crosby? I can understand the large sample favouring Crosby’s in terms of total points, because it’s his prime against samples of other players who might not be in their prime the whole time, but I was comparing his per game numbers to Draisaitl’s sample, not his peers, so that factor is irrelevant. I mean, if we don’t want to “cherry pick”, we could look at both their careers or first 9 seasons, but both of those are going to be heavily in Crosby’s favour due to Draisaitl’s weaker start to his career.

Using Crosby’s teenaged years in comparison to a mid 20s player seems a little bit much, but even then Crosby was 7th and 10th in ES points in those years (better finishes than Draisaitl the last two years where he’s 8th and 12th), and the criticism of racking up PP points after the lockout is flawed because the huge PP time also meant a lot less ES time. Crosby played only 13:49 minutes as ES as a rookie (18th among forwards), and 14:40 as a sophomore (21st among forwards). By comparison, 140 forwards are averaging at least 13:49 at ES this year and 75 forwards have averaged at least 14:40.

 

[Seanaconda]

Leon will never truly get the respect he deserves, he's a victim of the Malkin effect. by all rights, stats and metrics, he's the second best offensive player in the world but will never get the full appreciation he deserves because of who his teammate is.

I've been a fan of his since he played junior where I live in Prince Albert, and love the fact he's turned into the superstar he has (looking forward to his jersey retirement night in PA) and hope when his career is over people will full appreciate what kind of talent he was when he was in his prime, literally right now.

There's so much peripheral garbage that people argue about when it comes to Leon, when the fact of the matter is the numbers speak for themselves, he's an offensive juggernaut that's overshadowed by all-time great player who is on his team, simple as that.

Fans who don't watch the Oilers will always chalk his production up to "being a product of McDavid' when he's proven he can do it with and without Connor, but since they don't watch they don't know. And I can't say I really blame them, the stuff McDavid is doing is literally putting him in the tier of the all-timers, and it's human nature to assume that Leon might be a product of that.

It's too bad for him, but I do hope people truly appreciate how good he is before he retires.

Malkin was always considered a part of the big three of him Crosby and ovechkin , Noone was like oh malkin would only put up 60 pts on another team .

 

[Juxta Position]

Malkin was always considered a part of the big three of him Crosby and ovechkin , Noone was like oh malkin would only put up 60 pts on another team .

but he's always been overshadowed by Crosby. when Malkin was healthy and in his prime he was an absolute force, but he never got the respect he deserved because of his teammate. Same thing is happening in Edmonton.

 

[BalButtercluck]

but he's always been overshadowed by Crosby. when Malkin was healthy and in his prime he was an absolute force, but he never got the respect he deserved because of his teammate. Same thing is happening in Edmonton.

Goddamn shame because I've watched Malkin since the second he entered the league and I've watched him constantly, being in the same division as the isles. Multiple Playoff series, seen him live like 20 times, he is absolutely amazing, HOFer and deserves to be in that top 100 players of all time. Bush league they left him out. I remember he came into the league and scored goals in every one of his first 6-7 games was it? Mind blowing.

That said, Leon is better. Not by much, but better IMO. I take Leon at 26 over Malkin at 26 any day of the week, if not for anything else, for the goal scoring ability and less risk of injury.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

You have to be an idiot to think drai is better than Crosby lol

 

[dwonger]

Well first off that’s not true. Crosby has done it 6 times actually. He was tied for 5th in ‘13 while missing 1/4 of the season. Meanwhile, Draisaitl has only done it three times, in ‘19, ‘20 and ‘21. And Crosby doesn’t have more because of injuries lol. How is that not obvious? He finished just outside multiple times while missing games and even this season is out scoring Draisaitl. He has 14 seasons where he’s played at least 75% of the games and his ES finishes in those are 7, 10, 4, 3, T-5, 1, 7, 2, 4, T-26, 9, T-13, 35, 7. He was top 10 every healthy year from age 18-29 and has 2 more years in the top 10 since turning 30. Draisaitl is currently tied for 12th, with a 35 year old Crosby ahead of him.

Meanwhile, Crosby’s per game ES numbers through his prime blow away the rest of the league. Here’s the ES point leaders for the period between 09-10 and 13-14:

1.H.Sedin 259
2.St.Louis 258
3.Crosby 249
4.Stamkos 245
5.Ovechkin 244
6.Kane 243
7.Perry 237
8.Kessel 229
9.D.Sedin 225
10.Getzlaf 224

And the ES PPG for those players looks like this:

1.Crosby 0.96
2.Stamkos 0.74
3.H.Sedin 0.71
4.St.Louis 0.70
5.Ovechkin 0.69
6.Kane 0.69
7.D.Sedin 0.67
8.Getzlaf 0.66
9.Perry 0.64
10.Kessel 0.63

Drai’s last 5 years he’s 2nd in the league in ES points behind McDavid, and the leaders look like this:

1.McDavid 352
2.Draisaitl 318
3.Panarin 294
4.Matthews 291
4.MacKinnon 291
6.Marner 287
7.Kane 280
8.Gaudreau 279
9.Tkachuk 265
10.Pastrnak 258
11.Crosby 255


But the per game numbers for those players look like this:

1.McDavid 0.99
2.MacKinnon 0.89
3.Matthews 0.88
4.Draisaitl 0.87
5.Panarin 0.86
6.Marner 0.84
7.Crosby 0.80
8.Kane 0.79
9.Pastrnak 0.78
10.Gaudreau 0.77
11.Tkachuk 0.73

So Crosby’s per game numbers were way above the pack whereas Draisaitl has been within the pack of players under McDavid, and despite ES scoring being lower at the time, Crosby’s per game numbers were also better than Draisaitl’s. in fact, a 31-35 year old Crosby has been as close to prime Draisaitl the past 5 years than Draisaitl has been compared to prime Crosby.

Crosby was easily the better ES scorer than Draisaitl through his prime, and when combined with the fact that he was a better possession player and had a greater impact on GF%, was a decent amount better at ES. Draisaitl has been a better PP player, but there’s zero argument for him being better at ES.

Yes zero argument except for the only thing fhat matters. The actual points scored lol.

 

[The Panther]

Draisaitl on Saturday achieved the 50 goals with 50 assists club AGAIN, for the third time in his remarkable career. And it would be four times if not for Covid.

This has happened only four times in ten years -- three by him, one by Connor McDavid.

Since the summer of 1996 (when the higher-scoring era ended), these are the occasions it has happened:

1996-97 Selanne (51 + 58)
1996-97 M. Lemieux (50 + 72)
2000-01 Sakic (54 + 64)
2000-01 Jagr (52 + 69)
2005-06 Jagr (54 + 69)
2005-06 Ovechkin (52 + 54)
2005-06 Heatley (50 + 53)
2006-07 Heatley (50 + 55)
2006-07 Lecavalier (52 + 56)
2008-09 Ovechkin (56 + 54)
2009-10 Crosby (51 + 58)
2009-10 Ovechkin (50 + 59)
2011-12 Malkin (50 + 59)
2018-19 Draisaitl (50 + 55)
2021-22 Draisaitl (55 + 55)
2022-23 Draisaitl (50 + 70 so far)
2022-23 McDavid (62 + 84 so far)

Overall:
9 x Gretzky
7 x Bossy
6 x Lafleur
6 x Dionne
6 x M. Lemieux
5 x Esposito
5 x Yzerman
4 x Kurri

 

[McVespa99]

Well, I take back everything I ever said about Draisaitl being underrated, at least amongst Oilers fans.

Apparently, he's a top 10 player of all time, a combination of "PP merchant" Crosby's all-time great playmaking AND Ovechkin's GOAT goalscoring, and is earmarked for 65 goals and 150 points next year. I also learned that league scoring and context (i.e. defensive match-ups) mean nothing, as hockey is played in one giant vacuum.

Finally! Someone gets it!

 

[Regal]

Yes zero argument except for the only thing fhat matters. The actual points scored lol.

Lol what a typical stupid repose.

But sure, best 5 ES scoring seasons:
Draisaitl: 73, 66, 62, 60, 55
Crosby: 72, 69, 66, 64, 64

 

[dwonger]

Lol what a typical stupid repose.

But sure, best 5 ES scoring seasons:
Draisaitl: 73, 66, 62, 60, 55
Crosby: 72, 69, 66, 64, 64

Would be relevant if one didn't play literally double the amount of seasons as the other.

You have to be an idiot to think drai is better than Crosby lol

Who the heck said that?

 

[dwonger]

Another 1g 2a for 51g and 123 points. Hopefully he can hit 129 and beat Kuch 128 points.

Guy has been a beast for months now and has been better than McDavid lately.

 

[alphahelix]

Drai @ 31PPG and 123Points is on pace to finish better than most modern players are capable of in their best-case-scenario prime season…

 

[Killer Orcas]

Leon's a machine this kid is simply unstoppable right now.

 

[garbageteam]

Another 1g 2a for 51g and 123 points. Hopefully he can hit 129 and beat Kuch 128 points.

Guy has been a beast for months now and has been better than McDavid lately.

Was already on-pace to match 128 if the season wasn't killed by COVID a couple of years back, so 129 would be his best seasonal pace ever. Let's see if he achieves that.

Funny how McDavid has flown off into the absolute stratosphere in offensive production and for point watchers it's almost more exciting to see if LD can break 128.

 

[Donner]

I do think an argument can be made that McDavid/Draisaitls peak as a tandem has surpassed Crosby/Malkin

They are probably the best tandem in the league since Lemieux/Jagr (although a tier below)

 

[nturn06]

but he's always been overshadowed by Crosby. when Malkin was healthy and in his prime he was an absolute force, but he never got the respect he deserved because of his teammate. Same thing is happening in Edmonton.

There is a big difference between being overshaddowed and suggesting that he is a 60 points player, isn't it?

 

[frisco]

Didn't look through all the thread so forgive me if this has been posted:

Most goals last five years (April 5-2018 to April 5-2023):
Draisaitl-231
Matthews-224
Ovechkin-218
McDavid-214
Pastrnak-204

My Best-Carey