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Series Talk: Leafs vs Lightning Pre-Playoff Thread

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Who wins?

  • Total voters
    482
  • Poll closed .
TheDoldrums said:
Holl and Schenn aren't very similar. Holl is the teams best PKer and plays on Stamkos' side, he's vital imo. But he's not very good at clearing the front of the net and being physical, which is what Schenn brings.

Let's not forget Lily got two playoff games last year and was terrible. I think he'll get into the playoffs at some point but I'm fine with him sitting to start.
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This doesn't really work when Schenn has been mostly bad since we acquired him and Holl was also terrible last playoffs.
 
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The 5v5 numbers for the Leafs D to play more than 10 games since the trade deadline to give some more context to the discussion:

Lowest Ozone start%:
1. Holl: 18.33
2. Brodie: 27.34
3. Gio: 28.21
4. McCabe: 43,88
5. Schenn: 43.90
6. Liljegren: 55.00
7. Rielly: 69.49

xGF%:
1. Rielly: 56.88
2. Gio: 50.94
3. Liljegen: 47.57
4. McCabe: 47.37
5. Schenn: 46.59
6. Brodie: 46.05
7. Holl: 44.36


Goal differential:
1. McCabe: 63.64
2. Rielly: 54.55
3. Gio 53.57
4. Liljegren: 46.43
5. Schenn: 45.45
6. Brodie: 42.50
7. Holl: 40.00
 
Jimmy Firecracker said:
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Pretty sharp looking lines. The first line is proven to work. ROR on the 2nd line makes it more dynamic. They will probably both get lots of minutes. Good spread of grit on lines 3-4 with Acciari taking Kampf's spot on line #3. Both lines will be physically involved. I think part of the reason ZAR will get the nod on Knies in game #1 is his physicality. Knies hasn't shown he can clobber guys yet at the NHL level, he's shied away from that aspect so far, where someone like ZAR will be up for that challenge right away.

The defense does look pretty good as well. Obviously, Liljegren being the #7 guy again is kind of sad. This is just a deep veteran squad on the back end and his competition is a human eraser or your PK ice time leader. The Leafs are betting on experience in game #1. I like all the pairs, probably the best they could do.
 
Maplebeasts said:
This doesn't really work when Schenn has been mostly bad since we acquired him and Holl was also terrible last playoffs.
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Schenn is mostly bad except for in all the ways we need him



Playoffs are a different beast and he's the type of guy that prevents Nick Paul from scoring greasy goals to eliminate us. McCabe and Schenn are immediately and clearly our best defenders at clearing out the high danger areas, it's been a weakness for years. I am willing to give up Lily's strengths for this, at least to start.
 
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PromisedLand said:
Why does Holl deserve to be in? He sucks under pressure. Did you see Holl in Game 6 OT against Bolts what he was doing when point scored? Or the interference penalty in Game 7 when JT scored and goal was called off?

Holl completely SUCKED in the entire playoffs against the bolts last season. Here is Keefe defending Holl when everyone media+fans saw how much Holl was sucking
www.thestar.com

Maple Leafs defend play of Justin Holl prior to Game 5 vs. Lightning

Toronto defenceman took heat from fans after Game 4 Sunday night, when a giveaway led to the opening goal in the game.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com
(I'll link the video if i find it. Keefe was being a snob answering that question in the media)


And here is Holl after Keefe's comments in Game 6 look at how that JACKASS goes to defend a bad angle shot while leaving the slot unprotected -> His job as a D-man
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Marner (in one of his few bad moments of last series) whiffing on his man to create the two on one down low + Campbell lifting his pad up with his head in the clouds to let that rebound in.....jeez.

I hope Samsonov is finally the answer in net we have been looking for.
 
HockeyVirus said:
No they lose because they scored 1 goal in game 7 and had bad penalty luck



He is closer to a Simmonds than a Schenn. Schenn actually impacts the game and is not just a pair of fists.
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Except Schenn actually doesn't impact the game positively at all. He's getting caved in sheltered 3rd pair minutes.
 
Zybalto said:
Marner (in one of his few bad moments of last series) whiffing on his man to create the two on one down low + Campbell lifting his pad up with his head in the clouds to let that rebound in.....jeez.

I hope Samsonov is finally the answer in net we have been looking for.
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Holl sucked the entire playoffs. If you don't see that then i don't think we can have a discussion. You cannot defend Holl going all out to defend a bad angle shot leaving the slot wide open

in game 4 holl's giveaway started the goals to come from tampa.

holl pretty much sucked the entire playoffs. Media saw it, fans saw it and hell there isn't a GDT where Holl doesn't get called out for his moronic play even this season.
 
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LeafsOHLRangers98 said:
I'd rather take talent. While Lily isn't overly physical, he's better at keeping the puck away from our net and that's all I really care about. He prevents guys from getting to the crease to begin with by often cutting the play off in the neutral zone before they get a chance to set up.

Keefe playing a worse player on purpose for the 2nd year in a row is silly and could be costly. Even at 12-13 minutes.
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He's also shown he can be a liability and have those costly turnovers like Gardiner used to. I think he should be in over Holl who at this point only seems useful blocking shots on the PK.
 
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TorMapleJays said:
he is also going to clear the front of the net, and be invaluable when it comes to goal mouth scrums.

Many forget how this series was played last year. Wide open, no.

My favorite part about Shenn is his ability to clear a puck off the glass and out… the first two rounds are going to be won in the muck.
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Look at the way he manhandled Brady Tkachuk in front of the Leafs net and then blew him up at the end of the game vs Ottawa, and stepped in and policed Pat Maroon after he got into a back and forth with Michael Bunting and the bench. If a team is trying to intimidate or find a physical edge vs the Leafs, he's there to negate it.

Sometimes you might want that vs a team like Tampa... in another series vs New Jersey, you might not. As far as Liljegren is concerned, he brings a lot of ingredients that are similar to Brodie, McCabe and Gio. Just depends on what kind of game you find yourself in. It's like arguing over All Season vs Snow tires. There's no right or wrong. Depends on your driving conditions.
 
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HockeyVirus said:
I get you 100%, but the thing is what you are saying was Dubas' point when he came into the NHL. Would rather have the better player than the more physical one. And it didn't work and has never worked.

Every cup team has players like Schenn in their lineup despite not being the best talents. There is a reason for that and that is in the playoffs those guys matter
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That's just crazy that we're gonna see Liljegren scratched again in favor of a lesser talented D who brings physicality and not much else. Some posters lost their mind over Lyubushkin being played last year over him and we're repeating the exact same script again.

What does this mean for the development of our D if we're not playing them in the playoffs?

Stephen said:
Look at the way he manhandled Brady Tkachuk in front of the Leafs net and then blew him up at the end of the game vs Ottawa, and stepped in and policed Pat Maroon after he got into a back and forth with Michael Bunting and the bench. If a team is trying to intimidate or find a physical edge vs the Leafs, he's there to negate it.

Sometimes you might want that vs a team like Tampa... in another series vs New Jersey, you might not. As far as Liljegren is concerned, he brings a lot of ingredients that are similar to Brodie, McCabe and Gio. Just depends on what kind of game you find yourself in.
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The games I watched with New Jersey they got more than a couple guys throughout that lineup that love to crash the net. If you're wanting Schenn for Tampa you're definitely gonna want him for New Jersey.
 
TheBeastCoast said:
Schenn hasn't been that bad since we got him. He does exactly what we need him to do and while I absolutely do see the value in advanced stats. Having an ass hole physical defensemen has value in the playoffs. Value that isn't fully captured within advanced stats.
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I agree with this whole heartedly. I always welcome physicality on the D core.

But the major problem here is that it's costing us playoff time for our youngest and most promising D currently on the team. I'm surprised more people don't view this as a bad problem.
 
Stephen said:
They don't have to be afraid of Schenn, but they'll still have to eat his fists if they act out and get wrecked on the sidewall on the regular.
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Or eat his body every time they enter the zone. Does anything think this TB team would be as fresh in the 7th game this year as they were last year? This Leafs team is more built to push back physically and the Lightning have already played a tonne of hockey.
 
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Leafsfan74 said:
Or eat his body every time they enter the zone. Does anything think this TB team would be as fresh in the 7th game this year as they were last year? This Leafs team is more built to push back physically and the Lightning have already played a tonne of hockey.
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Every team we've played in the Matthews era has been committed to some version of an attrition game vs Toronto, putting in the hits and the mental wear and tear of getting beat up on every zone entry and puck retrieval. We are definitely better armed in those departments.

Maybe people need a refresher on those Gary Roberts on Wade Redden forechecks or be on the other side of the Jake Gardiner equation to be convinced this is a real factor. But at least the organization has built a different kind of team for that play style.
 
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LeafsOHLRangers98 said:
Nobody on that Tampa team is afraid of Schenn, and he got caved in in his regular season games with us.

I'd rather just have the better player in Liljegren that prevents chances/shots against. I don't care how he does it, keep the damage to a minimum.
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I don't know what you mean by "he got caved in", he's been pretty solid in his time with the team, even when he was getting use to adjusting at the start, he was playing his role just fine. Schenns usage won't be the same as liljegren but it will be a playoff style need, and unless Liljegren can prove hes out of his funk offensively and he won't make unforced errors like he has done in the last stretch, I'd argue have Schenn and what he brings is more needed than what Liljegren can offer right now. Remember Liljegrens been shaky ever since trade deadline. Schenns been good, I can't remember a goals against where it was his fault aside from his good attempt at a zone clear that was stopped by a jumping leap from a defender that made the highlight real play.

I won't be mad if Liljegren or Schenn sits out game 1 because it would be Keefe wanting a certain usage over the other.. which IMO should be Schenns right now because it's safer with the playoff type of intensity. Liljegren should be the one switching out for Holl. Which I assume will be the move once Holl makes a critical mistake.
 
I see Schenn playing the first 4 games for sure (Unless something drastic happens like going down 0-2 or 0-3). The first few games are usually the most physical.

Games 5-7 usually turns into a "Mistake free" and "stay out of the penalty box" type of game.

I can see either Gustaffson or Lillegren come in then for either Schenn or Holl
 
PromisedLand said:
Holl in the line up is stupid. you already have McCabe-Brodie and Rielly-Schenn; you need a puck mover in Lily or Gustaffson. Holl is a pylon. Holl has already cost Leafs the playoff series last year ruining Game 6 and Game 7 playing like an absolute pylon; Holl doesn't know how to play D when opposition presses or move the puck. Keefe is a gutless moron

Tavares-ROR-Nylander is also stupid. Tavares should be playing on the 3rd line

Knies-ROR-Nylalnder as a 2nd line would have been better if you are going to use Matthews-Marner as a match up agasint Samkos-Point-Kucherov; Also bunting absolutely sucks defensively they should put jankrok with matthews-marner if they are using this duo as a shutdown duo

Keefe is beyond stupid
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Holl > Schenn, easily. If someone comes out for Liljegren, it should be him.

Actually, agree about the second line but for different reasons.

I can't imagine how bad you are to watch a game with if this is how emotional you seem in a post...
 
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notbias said:
Holl > Schenn, easily. If someone comes out for Liljegren, it should be him.

Actually, agree about the second line but for different reasons.

I can't imagine how bad you are to watch a game with if this is how emotional you seem in a post...
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I do agree with this schenn has been the less reliable of the two. Unfortunately Lily has somewhat played his way out of the lineup lately. Am a bit worried about the speed of the D however it's not exactly a bunch of speed demons besides Morgan.

Forwards will have to continue to play the solid D we have been for most of the season
 
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