Confirmed with Link: Leafs sign F Auston Matthews to extension (4 years, $13.25M AAV)

[Gallagbi]

About fair? Didn't McDavid sign at some crazy discount for no reason? Surely the "actual" number is higher than 1.5%.

Initial rumours were 13.25M for McDavid, im pretty sure that matched the highest cap% in history at the time. Then he took a 750k/year discount.

It was funny, it sounded done and signed at 13.25 then changed a few days later

On an 8 year 3rd contract.... Yes, the player usually loses a step by the last couple of years. BUT they are also making significantly less cap percentage than when they signed. So it balances out. Tavares is a weird example as no other ppg players get the cap percentage he was offered and the cap barely increased at all in the 7 years since he signed.

It's indisputably in the better interest for the team to have an 8 year deal on a 26 year old rather than to have to renegotiate when they're 30 and the cap is significantly higher. Tavares is 32 and still putting up his career averages. It's likely Matthews will as well by age 30. He'll still be a 50 goal 95 point guy. Looking for a new contract with the cap way higher.

The current contract benefits MATTHEWS at the expense of the rest of the team. Every other star player COULD choose this route, but they aren't as selfish.

Wasnt there a tweet in this thread that the Leafs went with 13.25x4 instead of 13x8? While the cap will decrease, I wouldnt bet on it being an equal offeet to play drop off in the mid 30s

 

[ACC1224]

I assumed most people were happy they didn't sign him for 8 years?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Connor Mcdavid singed for 8 years. 100 million total at 16.7% of the cap when he signed.

He just came out and refused to commit to another contract. He could easily leave after 8 years for nothing

Auston Matthews signed for
14.3% of the cap x5. always said we would re sign
Did it again

And signed for 15.1% of the cap (gauranteed by CBA)x 4

Ultimately even ignoring that the leafs got to have a lower cap hit during lower times. Combining gauranteed contracts when they signed

Mcdavid signed for 16.67% for 8 yeas
Matthews signed for 15.12% for 9 years.

Mcdavid is clearly the better player. 1.5% AAV less and an extra year is about fair

This is precisely what I'm talking about when I say that people skew stats to twist them in their favor.

Pay very close attention to the fact that for both of Matthews contracts, Legion34 has used Matthews cap percentage at time the contract begins. Not when signing.

Yet with McDavid, he used cap percentage at time of signing, not time when contract begins.

This is not a legitimate conversation. This is not trying to show facts to each other. It's using spin and trickery to try and manipulate people into believing false narratives.

Let's also add that if Matthews signed 8 years at 15.12% of cap back in 2019, we'd have 4 more years of him at 12 mil. Not 13.25

Let's ALSO add that, at time of each signing respectively, McDavid had a Hart, Art Ross, and Ted Lindsay award. Matthews didn't. It's a joke. A JOKE.

 

[nuck]

As far as the AAV goes its hard for me to see an issue. If he signed for 500k less people would be calling it a steal. The difference between team friendly and not isn't much. So $13.2 in the context of some of the deals that will be signed over the next 3 years seems like a pretty good number. The term is the issue and with only 2 out of 6 seasons where he hasn't been banged up a bit his ability to remain elite in 5 years is not guaranteed. This could turn out to be a worse decision for AM than the team. Certainly not a horrendous beat down like $14 x 3. And I don't think it adds much fuel to the fire for Marner because this isn't a number that he could only get from rookie Dubas or only get in Toronto.

Worry about the last year when it comes.

 

[Racer88]

Correct. Time to move on. This is the best shot the Leafs have had since this core has been together. It's put up time now.

Why is this year the best chance this core has had. Why is it better then the last 7 years

I think the majority of Leaf fans understand the current cap structure is not ideal, but its the situation they are in, and have been the past 4 years. Its just become tiresome at this point beating the same dead horse over and over again.

And its clear people will do this the next 5 years too.

Losing has become tiresome as well

 

[notbias]

On an 8 year 3rd contract.... Yes, the player usually loses a step by the last couple of years. BUT they are also making significantly less cap percentage than when they signed. So it balances out. Tavares is a weird example as no other ppg players get the cap percentage he was offered and the cap barely increased at all in the 7 years since he signed.

It's indisputably in the better interest for the team to have an 8 year deal on a 26 year old rather than to have to renegotiate when they're 30 and the cap is significantly higher. Tavares is 32 and still putting up his career averages. It's likely Matthews will as well by age 30. He'll still be a 50 goal 95 point guy. Looking for a new contract with the cap way higher.

The current contract benefits MATTHEWS at the expense of the rest of the team. Every other star player COULD choose this route, but they aren't as selfish.

It is funny (not saying you specifically), but the people I see wanting Matthews at 8 years are also the people who get upset that players were signed in an environment where everyone thought the cap was going up and it didn't.

They have the same strategy as our former GM and they hate him for it.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

It is funny (not saying you specifically), but the people I see wanting Matthews at 8 years are also the people who get upset that players were signed in an environment where everyone thought the cap was going up and it didn't.

They have the same strategy as our former GM and they hate him for it.

Our point was "If you're going to overpay all of our star players based on the hope the cap keeps going up, be damn sure you get that 8 year term that all the other recent star players got."

That was our point.

 

[Dangles McGavin]

In an ideal world, we probably get 5-6 years. I can understand why Matthews would want 4, although it seems like a pretty significant gamble on his part. He's seemingly had issues staying fully healthy, and banking on getting a huge deal at 31, even if totally healthy, seems iffy. If I was in his spot, I probably would have wanted 3 (to cash in next contract) or 8 years (maximum security).

I agree with Treliving that he could have asked for more. This deal is much, much more tolerable than his previous deal that was a crazy price exclusively RFA years.

I don't love nor hate the deal. Assuming that last year was an off-year, I think it's pretty fair. Matthews is a hell of a player and it's pretty amazing that we're going to have him for his entire prime.

 

[weems]

I think the majority of Leaf fans understand the current cap structure is not ideal, but its the situation they are in, and have been the past 4 years. Its just become tiresome at this point beating the same dead horse over and over again.

And its clear people will do this the next 5 years too.

We have more than enough talent to win.
This is now solely on the players and coaching staff to get things done and there should be no more excuses.
The intensity and physicality can easily be ramped up from what it's been.

 

[notbias]

Our point was "If you're going to overpay all of our star players based on the hope the cap keeps going up, be damn sure you get that 8 year term that all the other recent star players got."

That was our point.

no one was overpaid (except Marner slightly), that is the issue with the argument. Right now we'd have Matthews at 12.5+ probably for 4 more years. I am sure that extra million would have been well received for the last 4 years.

also, there is some myth that all-star players sign 8 years after their ELC, I think the majority sign 5/6 year deals.

 

[Dangles McGavin]

When Matthews new contract kicks in 2024-25 the Leafs will have 3 of the top 9 highest Cap Hits in the NHL, including the highest paid player now.

View attachment 738901

Matthews @ $13.25 mil + Tavares @ $11 mil + Marner @ $10.9 mil = $35.15 mil combined of $87,500,00 Cap Hit % = 40.17% (no team is going to come anywhere near that for 3 players)

PS this doesn't included Nylander and his next contract expected to also increase by +$2 mil from present and also going to impact the 2024-25 season.

Who cares about the other two? This is AM's contract. He's by far the most important player of the bunch, and now we've got him locked up until he's 31.

JT's contract was a mistake for the team (good player, unnecessary luxury) and Marner's 2nd contract was bad (even if he's arguably worth it now).

Hopefully Treliving has some different ideas about how to structure this team once JT is off the books in 2 years.

But building around AM is 100% the right thing to do, even at 13.25M.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I assumed most people were happy they didn't sign him for 8 years?

Most people just aren't happy in general.

 

[Mess]

I think the majority of Leaf fans understand the current cap structure is not ideal, but its the situation they are in, and have been the past 4 years. Its just become tiresome at this point beating the same dead horse over and over again.

And its clear people will do this the next 5 years too.

If the Leafs traded Nylander for a top pairing Dman and when Tavares cap busting contract ends in 2 years and he takes a major paycut then Leafs would go from currently 3 forwards in double digits AAV to only 2 in Matthews and Marner and no longer 4 forwards consuming 1/2 a teams cap.

Even if Willy is re-signed for less than <$10 mil and once JT contract ends things will start getting better for Toronto.

The next 2 years particularly 2024-25 when Matthews and Nylander raises kick in and Marner and Tavares current contracts are still active will really test Leafs top heavy cap consumption at its highest CH% for 4 players.

 

[BallardEra]

Gretzky also had a major back injury. I personally do not believe Matthews will get anywhere near what ovy will. I don’t think he ages well personally.

What OVY has done is unparalleled. I would be thrilled if matthews gets to 600 goals. That’s an incredible career

I think Matthews will score over 700 goals.

 

[keonsbitterness]

If the Leafs traded Nylander for a top pairing Dman and when Tavares cap busting contract ends in 2 years and he takes a major paycut then Leafs would go from currently 3 forwards in double digits AAV to only 2 in Matthews and Marner and no longer 4 forwards consuming 1/2 a teams cap.

Even if Willy is re-signed for less than <$10 mil and once JT contract ends things will start getting better for Toronto.

The next 2 years particularly 2024-25 when Matthews and Nylander raises kick in and Marner and Tavares current contracts are still active will really test Leafs top heavy cap consumption at its highest CH% for 4 players.

What if the Leafs win a Cup in the next two years? Pay everyone double?

 

[Hellcat]

Which one has won a cup?

But it doesn't matter. The point is that they COULD have insisted on 4 year terms at higher aav's to maximize their career earnings at the expense of team success. But they weren't that greedy. Only our guys are that greedy.

On last contract when Matthews was paid as much as McDavid when term is considered, some people tried bringing up that McDavid won a Hart and an Art Ross and Matthews hadn't. We were told such things don't matter when it comes to contracts.

There is NO consistency. NONE!!!!

Did MacKinnon win the cup on his own? Is it Matty's job to build the roster? Is it his job to coach better?

The point is, you have no point, INDIVIDUALLY Pasta and MacKinnon are not as good as Auston period. which is why they don't get paid as much as Auston. Stats prove it. Individual awards prove it. You got no point is the only point. Its not greedy to get paid fair market value. Its not the players job to manage the cap. Auston's one and only job is to put the puck in the net and he does that better than anyone. It's not his job to draft better so the team has a balanced roster. It's not his job to sign better UFA's so the team has a better roster. It's not his job to manage the cap and take a pay cut so the team has a better roster.

For those of you who belly ache Oh we cant have 4 players make more than 10 mil, well at one time the narrative was you cant win the cup with a European Captain, until Detroit did. You cant win with a player over 10 mil until Las Vegas did.

The stupid shit Leaf fans have to bitch about, we got 3 elite forwards, can we just enjoy them while they are here instead of acting like thoughtless chimps? We got the 2nd best center in the world who happens to be the best goal scorer in the world and quite possibly the best Leaf ever and fans want to mudsling? Why? Lets say your right and Matty is a greedy F, what does that change? Do you win some Smartest Guy On The Internet Winner Award?

 

[Legion34]

This is precisely what I'm talking about when I say that people skew stats to twist them in their favor.

Pay very close attention to the fact that for both of Matthews contracts, Legion34 has used Matthews cap percentage at time the contract begins. Not when signing.

Yet with McDavid, he used cap percentage at time of signing, not time when contract begins.

This is not a legitimate conversation. This is not trying to show facts to each other. It's using spin and trickery to try and manipulate people into believing false narratives.

Let's also add that if Matthews signed 8 years at 15.12% of cap back in 2019, we'd have 4 more years of him at 12 mil. Not 13.25

Let's ALSO add that, at time of each signing respectively, McDavid had a Hart, Art Ross, and Ted Lindsay award. Matthews didn't. It's a joke. A JOKE.

Except……
Auston Matthews specifically signed when the cap was known. Connor Mcdavid did not

Mcdavid signed in the summer before Vegas. There had not been a successful expansion team like that. There was legitimate and consistent concern they were going to be Arizona 2.0 and no reason the think they would drive the cap up.

Matthews signed after the cap projection of 81.5 with 0 escalator. 83.5 mid escalators and 86.5 full was announced.

For the first time ever the. NHLPA did not use any escalator. Which is fine. Toronto gambled and lost

This time the MOU has clearly stated the cap will be 87.5 next year.

Entirely different.

Whoops

 

[Hellcat]

What if the Leafs win a Cup in the next two years? Pay everyone double?

I think that is the guideline, any cup winner > Rocket Richard + Hart winner , apparently a 20 goal scorer who win's the cup is = to a 50 goal scorer who does not win the cup, or at least that is what seems to be the prevailing logic on this forum.

 

[PromisedLand]

Except……
Auston Matthews specifically signed when the cap was known. Connor Mcdavid did not

Mcdavid signed in the summer before Vegas. There had not been a successful expansion team like that. There was legitimate and consistent concern they were going to be Arizona 2.0 and no reason the think they would drive the cap up.

Matthews signed after the cap projection of 81.5 with 0 escalator. 83.5 mid escalators and 86.5 full was announced.

For the first time ever the. NHLPA did not use any escalator. Which is fine. Toronto gambled and lost

This time the MOU has clearly stated the cap will be 87.5 next year.

Entirely different.

Whoops

The cap will go up for all teh teams not just the Leafs though. There isn't any "competitive advantage" so to speak against divisional or conference or NHL teams of cap going up.

Only advantage in terms of cap hit the team can have is if players give discount to build a winner around them.

Which so far IMO has not been the case (except Rielly)

 

[Hellcat]

Yep. That's what happens when you sign less selfish team friendly long term deals. Your "cap percentage at time of signing" stays high throughout the contract. Imagine that.

Wut? That statement makes zero sense. If you sign a less selfish contract your % of cap hit remains high? Are you high?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Did MacKinnon win the cup on his own? Is it Matty's job to build the roster? Is it his job to coach better?

The point is, you have no point, INDIVIDUALLY Pasta and MacKinnon are not as good as Auston period. which is why they don't get paid as much as Auston. Stats prove it. Individual awards prove it. You got no point is the only point. Its not greedy to get paid fair market value. Its not the players job to manage the cap. Auston's one and only job is to put the puck in the net and he does that better than anyone. It's not his job to draft better so the team has a balanced roster. It's not his job to sign better UFA's so the team has a better roster. It's not his job to manage the cap and take a pay cut so the team has a better roster.

For those of you who belly ache Oh we cant have 4 players make more than 10 mil, well at one time the narrative was you cant win the cup with a European Captain, until Detroit did. You cant win with a player over 10 mil until Las Vegas did.

The stupid shit Leaf fans have to bitch about, we got 3 elite forwards, can we just enjoy them while they are here instead of acting like thoughtless chimps? We got the 2nd best center in the world who happens to be the best goal scorer in the world and quite possibly the best Leaf ever and fans want to mudsling? Why? Lets say your right and Matty is a greedy F, what does that change? Do you win some Smartest Guy On The Internet Winner Award?

Everything you just wrote doesn't matter.

The FACT is that Pastrnak (who has a better career high season than Matthews in goals and points) could have demanded a higher aav than 11 mil at 4 years. He didn't do that though. He chose the non-selfish route. Ditto Mack. They both compromised for a deal that works for them as well as the team.

Matthews doing this 4 year nonsense is looking out for JUST himself. Nothing in return for the team. Pasta and Mack could have done the same. They're just less selfish.

 

[Legion34]

The cap will go up for all teh teams not just the Leafs though. There isn't any "competitive advantage" so to speak against divisional or conference or NHL teams of cap going up.

Only advantage in terms of cap hit the team can have is if players give discount to build a winner around them.

Which so far IMO has not been the case (except Rielly)

Tavares did. He took 2 million less per year.

People generally don’t take discounts.

People Pretend no tax team players do. They don’t. They take the same take home pay and the government takes less from the team.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Except……
Auston Matthews specifically signed when the cap was known. Connor Mcdavid did not

Mcdavid signed in the summer before Vegas. There had not been a successful expansion team like that. There was legitimate and consistent concern they were going to be Arizona 2.0 and no reason the think they would drive the cap up.

Matthews signed after the cap projection of 81.5 with 0 escalator. 83.5 mid escalators and 86.5 full was announced.

For the first time ever the. NHLPA did not use any escalator. Which is fine. Toronto gambled and lost

This time the MOU has clearly stated the cap will be 87.5 next year.

Entirely different.

Whoops

You've using McDavid's cap percentage at time of signing. You're using Matthews cap percentage at time of his contract beginning. Your spin means nothing. Absolutely nothing. And it's fooling nobody. Every single solitary person reading this knows that you're manipulating the stats to push a narrative.

Choose one or the other. Time of signing. Or time of contract beginning. That's what a non-propagandist would do.

Also, even if we use your fake manipulative number, we'd have Matthews at 12 mil the next 4 seasons if he signed at 8 years. Not 13.25

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Wut? That statement makes zero sense. If you sign a less selfish contract your % of cap hit remains high? Are you high?

What are you confused about?

We were talking cap hit at time of signing. If you sing an 8 year deal, you're usually overpaid at the beginning (an inflated cap hit at time of signing), but by the time we get 8 years later your cap percentage is significantly lower. That's team perk of a long term contract.

Tavares did. He took 2 million less per year.

People generally don’t take discounts.

People Pretend no tax team players do. They don’t. They take the same take home pay and the government takes less from the team.

We know Tavares was offered 13 mil by San Jose. Their gm admitted it.

Can you find a source that shows the term he was offered?

 

[ToneDog]

Everything you just wrote doesn't matter.

The FACT is that Pastrnak (who has a better career high season than Matthews in goals and points) could have demanded a higher aav than 11 mil at 4 years. He didn't do that though. He chose the non-selfish route. Ditto Mack. They both compromised for a deal that works for them as well as the team.

Matthews doing this 4 year nonsense is looking out for JUST himself. Nothing in return for the team. Pasta and Mack could have done the same. They're just less selfish.

Pasta stuck to his number. It took most of the season and Pasta putting up crazy numbers for the Bruins to soften and meet that number. Here we pay a star who disappears in big games, coming off a sub par 85 point season $2m more than a player coming off a 60+ goals and 113 points season.

What makes it worse is also paying a declining Tavares $11m and a goal challenged, playoff midget 10.893m.

You can sell all the jerseys you want but these guys are not getting it done. Matty can say all the right things but when it comes time to man up, he shits the bed every time.