Line Combos: Leafs roster [Before] & [After] and work in progress

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Number of shots rarely tells the whole story but if you want to focus on the numbers, Campbell's numbers were pretty great and show that he was one of our best players in the playoffs.

Did you even watch game 7? I did and what I saw that we played one of worst games of the year and that's been our calling card - in deciding games when winners compete as hard as they ever do, find that extra gear and leave it all out there, we shift into a lower gear and seem to say you want to win this game, OK take it because we have no idea how to even try stop you.

4 years in a row now when the deciding game is at hand, we play our worst game of the playoffs and get dominated. Blaming the goalie is convenient if you must have a scapegoat, I guess it's just a little bit too convenient for me.

To be honest, I had no faith in the team, so I recorded it and watched if they won, but even then I just buzzed through the recordings.
Maybe it will come with maturity(runway is short now), but they have not been very good when the pressure is on.
 
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Trainers who got to the top of their profession by getting their clients in peak physical condition, not by lying to make them feel better. Personal trainers, team trainers, coaches, his fellow players, etc. - people who are actually informed on the matter - all say the same thing. There is absolutely zero evidence that Marner does not train or prepare properly. It is a completely baseless claim.
Yet his performance and how easily he gets pushed off the puck say different
 
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To be honest, I had no faith in the team, so I recorded it and watched if they won, but even then I just buzzed through the recordings.
Maybe it will come with maturity(runway is short now), but they have not been very good when the pressure is on.

Wow, that jaded huh, that's depressing. Can't say I don't understand where you're coming from. I'm kind of curious as to how much I'll watch this season, on one hand I have very little interest in the regular season but on the other hand, I'm so used to watching every game so may be I'll keep doing it, who knows. Feels like such a waste of time though, I think I'll try to do something else while the game is on, have it on as background noise, we'll see.
 
Wow, that jaded huh, that's depressing. Can't say I don't understand where you're coming from. I'm kind of curious as to how much I'll watch this season, on one hand I have very little interest in the regular season but on the other hand, I'm so used to watching every game so may be I'll keep doing it, who knows. Feels like such a waste of time though, I think I'll try to do something else while the game is on, have it on as background noise, we'll see.

Yeah, it seemed like a waste of time, and it wasn't the real NHL either, it was a pandemic placeholder.
Team felt like a mirage you see while driving on the open roads you kind of see it but just know the closer you get the less it will be there and then you pass through and it was just the air playing tricks on your mind.
I'll will give them an opportunity this year, but it might end up being record and blitz, and I'll spend the free time doing something more constructive.
 
Ritchie - Tavares - Marner
Bunting - Matthews -Kase
Kerfoot - Nylander - Mikeyhev
Simmonds - Kampf - Spezza

Reilly - Brodie
Muzzin -Holl
Sandin - Liljegren
Dermott

Campbell
Mrazek
 
Based on the fact that we already had a competitive team, and we were both keeping own rentals and making trade deadline acquisitions for playoff runs. Pretty obviously not a rebuilding team.
So does that mean they were right? Lou and Dubas (and Shanahan) mistakenly thought we were further along than we were. Lou giving away 2nds like they were going out of style. Then signing Tavares for that long and that amount, when we already had our franchise center. And having Nylander sit out for the season rather than give in to him may have made a difference on Marner’s negotiations. But they had done away with trying to continue the rebuild.
Being competitive and being Cup contenders are two different things. And knowing our defence wasn’t where it needed to be and properly addressing it, but instead tying half the cap up on two centers and two wingers (basically saying to hell with addressing one defence), not to mention having enough to also address the bottom six, shows the inexperience, or maybe stubbornness, of Dubas.
Believe it or not, I want to be proven wrong because I desperately want the Leafs to win.
 
Nothing about his performance or play suggests otherwise. He's put in hard work to become one of the best players in the world.
I guess one needs to decide if they want to be “one of the best in the world”, but only during the regular season, or be a difference maker come playoff time. And yes, it would be simply marvellous to be both.
 
I guess one needs to decide if they want to be “one of the best in the world”, but only during the regular season, or be a difference maker come playoff time. And yes, it would be simply marvellous to be both.
Agreed. He is far from one of the best in the world. He performs when the going is easy but disappears when the games get tougher, more important and pressure filled. he basically has a crappy shot, no physicality and no real speed and he certainly cannot handle pressure
 
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So is Matthews...

One of them PK's, and it ain't Auston.

Again, nitpicking..

Pick your spots.
What are you talking about? Matthews showed up in ridiculous shape this past season after training with McDavid and has IMPROVED his insane shot by adding a killer one timer.
 
Agreed. He is far from one of the best in the world. He performs when the going is easy but disappears when the games get tougher, more important and pressure filled. he basically has a crappy shot, no physicality and no real speed and he certainly cannot handle pressure

I assume you're talking about Marner and if so then I'm very sad to say that this seems spot on. I listen to people who keep saying he'll figure out and while I guess it's possible, it sure as hell isn't a given and after three poor playoffs in a row it doesn't even seem all that likely.
 
Yep, and he also bulked up too much at one point, and it negatively affected his play. Arm size is the single least important thing for a player like Marner, who is smaller and relies on speed, agility, and vision. I think it's pretty obvious that we should trust the countless top-of-their-profession trainers, who all say Marner has excellent training and preparation, and not somebody pretending to be an expert on the matter because he looked at arm size in an offseason Instagram photo.
It’s crazy how you don’t understand that lifting weights = body development. He’s obviously not training for aesthetics but his program consists of Olympic lifts that if he was completing at high volume and intensity you would see growth in his upper body
 
I'd leave the LW open for camp.

Bunting/Ritchie /Kase - Matthews - Nylander
Bunting /Ritchie/Kase - Tavares - Marner
Bunting /Ritchie /Kase - Kampf - Mikhayev
Simmonds - Spezza - (Internal/UFA / Trade

I do have a feeling we have a trade in us tho.

Dermott + Kerfoot + Pick For something like Manson + Grant (retained to make it work)
I really hope they switch Marner back to jt. It made us more balanced. JT is much more willing to go to the net and relies on his shot much less than matthews does, it makes Marner play more engaged. Whereas when he plays with Matthews he can feed him cute high slot passes and let Matthews do the work. Nylander seems to produce with either centre so no issue there.
 
So does that mean they were right?
I mean, that's an entirely different discussion. Whether or not each individual thing was the right or wrong move, the rebuild was unquestionably stopped before any of those contracts.
Then signing Tavares for that long and that amount, when we already had our franchise center.
For the record, center was organizationally one of if not our weakest position, and having two franchise centers has never been a bad thing.
And having Nylander sit out for the season rather than give in to him may have made a difference on Marner’s negotiations.
Nylander is the one who "gave in", and extremely, extremely unlikely it would have had any impact on Marner - who had reached a much higher level and importance. If anything, it likely would have made us lose Nylander for a disappointing return, throw away a season, and create an even more hostile relationship with our stars than what Lou/Babcock had fostered. All over a contract that's pretty reasonable.
Being competitive and being Cup contenders are two different things.
Not nearly as different as many people like to think, and you aren't in a rebuild if you are either.
And knowing our defence wasn’t where it needed to be and properly addressing it, but instead tying half the cap up on two centers and two wingers (basically saying to hell with addressing one defence)
Uhh.. In case you haven't noticed, our defense was heavily remade, and we went from one of the worst teams in the league defensively to one of the best, in a very short time.
not to mention having enough to also address the bottom six
Just because you're not spending ridiculous amounts on your bottom six, it doesn't mean your bottom six is bad. We have a pretty good bottom six. Bottom six forwards are where some of the worst contracts are given, and people always think other team's bottom sixes are amazing, when they aren't. The fact that we have an amazing top six also matters.
I guess one needs to decide if they want to be “one of the best in the world”, but only during the regular season, or be a difference maker come playoff time.
They quite obviously want to be both.
 
On the topic of which center the top two wingers should play with the coming season:

5v5 Since the start of the 2018 season (score + venue adjusted):

Matthews/Marner:

Ozone faceoff%: 56.85
CF%: 53.24
SF%: 54.00
SCF%: 59.30
HDCF%: 61.54
xGF%: 58.83
GF%: 63.16


Matthews/Nylander:

Ozone faceoff%: 63.99
CF%: 54.30
SF%: 54.21
SCF%: 54.79
HDCF%: 55.13
xGF%: 53.41
GF%: 50.94


Tavares/Marner:

Ozone faceoff%: 51.07
CF%: 53.43
SF%: 51.51
SCF%: 55.30
HDCF%: 54.28
xGF%: 53.42
GF%: 55.25


Tavares/Nylander:

Ozone faceoff%: 56.95
CF%: 53.51
SF%: 52.92
SCF%: 55.81
HDCF%: 56.95
xGF%: 56.10
GF%: 55.60


It seems pretty evident that the Matthews/Marner + Tavares/Nylander combos are the way to go as they are solidly more effective using advanced stats + goal differential on the ice, mainly due to the fact that Matthews/Marner dominate when put together. While Tavares/Marner had great 2nd line stats, Tavares/Nylander have been excellent as well.

How did those combos do in the playoffs? With Tavares going down last time, have a smaller sample size for that pairing of course but here they are:

5v5 Playoff numbers start of 2018 season-now (score + venue adjusted):

Matthews/Marner:

Ozone faceoff%: 54.62
CF%: 55.70
SF%: 60.45
SCF%: 59.98
HDCF%: 72.37
xGF%: 68.23
GF%: 78.51

Tavares/Nylander:

Ozone faceoff%: 52.63
CF%: 53.26
SF%: 57.23
SCF%: 57.39
HDCF%: 63.12
xGF%: 55.81
GF%: 51.17

Matthews/Marner's numbers jump up even higher and are just absolutely dominant in even tougher minutes. I wonder what Tavares/Nylander would have looked like if the injury didn't occur.

Yea, certainly should continue with these pairings. They are just too good.
 
On the topic of which center the top two wingers should play with the coming season:

5v5 Since the start of the 2018 season (score + venue adjusted):

Matthews/Marner:

Ozone faceoff%: 56.85
CF%: 53.24
SF%: 54.00
SCF%: 59.30
HDCF%: 61.54
xGF%: 58.83
GF%: 63.16


Matthews/Nylander:

Ozone faceoff%: 63.99
CF%: 54.30
SF%: 54.21
SCF%: 54.79
HDCF%: 55.13
xGF%: 53.41
GF%: 50.94


Tavares/Marner:

Ozone faceoff%: 51.07
CF%: 53.43
SF%: 51.51
SCF%: 55.30
HDCF%: 54.28
xGF%: 53.42
GF%: 55.25


Tavares/Nylander:

Ozone faceoff%: 56.95
CF%: 53.51
SF%: 52.92
SCF%: 55.81
HDCF%: 56.95
xGF%: 56.10
GF%: 55.60


It seems pretty evident that the Matthews/Marner + Tavares/Nylander combos are the way to go as they are solidly more effective using advanced stats + goal differential on the ice, mainly due to the fact that Matthews/Marner dominate when put together. While Tavares/Marner had great 2nd line stats, Tavares/Nylander have been excellent as well.

How did those combos do in the playoffs? With Tavares going down last time, have a smaller sample size for that pairing of course but here they are:

5v5 Playoff numbers start of 2018 season-now (score + venue adjusted):

Matthews/Marner:

Ozone faceoff%: 54.62
CF%: 55.70
SF%: 60.45
SCF%: 59.98
HDCF%: 72.37
xGF%: 68.23
GF%: 78.51

Tavares/Nylander:

Ozone faceoff%: 52.63
CF%: 53.26
SF%: 57.23
SCF%: 57.39
HDCF%: 63.12
xGF%: 55.81
GF%: 51.17

Matthews/Marner's numbers jump up even higher and are just absolutely dominant in even tougher minutes. I wonder what Tavares/Nylander would have looked like if the injury didn't occur.

Yea, certainly should continue with these pairings. They are just too good.
Great breakdown, and I'd likely agree that we should stick with the pairings, but it should be noted that these results may be impacted by these pairings largely representing different points of development for Matthews/Marner/Nylander.
 
I assume you're talking about Marner and if so then I'm very sad to say that this seems spot on. I listen to people who keep saying he'll figure out and while I guess it's possible, it sure as hell isn't a given and after three poor playoffs in a row it doesn't even seem all that likely.
Unfortunately that’s who I am talking about……..it’s starting to look like he is all sizzle and no steak
 
On the topic of which center the top two wingers should play with the coming season:

5v5 Since the start of the 2018 season (score + venue adjusted):

Matthews/Marner:

Ozone faceoff%: 56.85
CF%: 53.24
SF%: 54.00
SCF%: 59.30
HDCF%: 61.54
xGF%: 58.83
GF%: 63.16


Matthews/Nylander:

Ozone faceoff%: 63.99
CF%: 54.30
SF%: 54.21
SCF%: 54.79
HDCF%: 55.13
xGF%: 53.41
GF%: 50.94


Tavares/Marner:

Ozone faceoff%: 51.07
CF%: 53.43
SF%: 51.51
SCF%: 55.30
HDCF%: 54.28
xGF%: 53.42
GF%: 55.25


Tavares/Nylander:

Ozone faceoff%: 56.95
CF%: 53.51
SF%: 52.92
SCF%: 55.81
HDCF%: 56.95
xGF%: 56.10
GF%: 55.60


It seems pretty evident that the Matthews/Marner + Tavares/Nylander combos are the way to go as they are solidly more effective using advanced stats + goal differential on the ice, mainly due to the fact that Matthews/Marner dominate when put together. While Tavares/Marner had great 2nd line stats, Tavares/Nylander have been excellent as well.

How did those combos do in the playoffs? With Tavares going down last time, have a smaller sample size for that pairing of course but here they are:

5v5 Playoff numbers start of 2018 season-now (score + venue adjusted):

Matthews/Marner:

Ozone faceoff%: 54.62
CF%: 55.70
SF%: 60.45
SCF%: 59.98
HDCF%: 72.37
xGF%: 68.23
GF%: 78.51

Tavares/Nylander:

Ozone faceoff%: 52.63
CF%: 53.26
SF%: 57.23
SCF%: 57.39
HDCF%: 63.12
xGF%: 55.81
GF%: 51.17

Matthews/Marner's numbers jump up even higher and are just absolutely dominant in even tougher minutes. I wonder what Tavares/Nylander would have looked like if the injury didn't occur.

Yea, certainly should continue with these pairings. They are just too good.
And yet they still choked away a 3-1 series lead
 
I mean, that's an entirely different discussion. Whether or not each individual thing was the right or wrong move, the rebuild was unquestionably stopped before any of those contracts.

For the record, center was organizationally one of if not our weakest position, and having two franchise centers has never been a bad thing.

Extremely, extremely unlikely. If anything, it likely would have made us lose Nylander for a disappointing return, and create an even more hostile relationship with our stars than what Lou/Babcock had fostered. All over a contract that's pretty reasonable.

Not nearly as different as many people like to think, and you aren't in a rebuild if you are either.

Uhh.. In case you haven't noticed, our defense was heavily remade, and we went from one of the worst teams in the league defensively to one of the best, in a very short time.

Just because you're not spending ridiculous amounts on your bottom six, it doesn't mean your bottom six is bad. We have a pretty good bottom six. Bottom six forwards are where some of the worst contracts are given, and people always think other team's bottom sixes are amazing, when they aren't. The fact that we have an amazing top six also matters.

They quite obviously want to be both.
In your first paragraph, thank you for agreeing with me that they abandoned the rebuild.
In your 2nd paragraph, I strongly disagree. Having Matthews and Kadri as your number 1 and 2 centers during a rebuild is pretty darn good!
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on your 3rd paragraph. To me, if you give in to one guy, it’s almost if not totally impossible to not give in to the next ones. And this further proves my point. Management abandoned the rebuild too early, so they were forced into giving in rather than holding firm (which would have set the tone to have a more balanced cap).
I agree about our defence being improved.
I also agree about not spending foolishly on the bottom six. But to end up with Thornton and Simmonds in your bottom six, not to mention Thornton also playing on PP1, should also tell you that you can’t nickel and dime to build your bottom six. You need to be able to spend more than $1 million on at least a few of them, not to mention having some also coming up in the pipeline (and it doesn’t hurt to have some size, grit, and skill in there, rather than just skill.
 
And yet they still choked away a 3-1 series lead

Seeing as Tavares was injured and Matthews/Marner were probably the best combo in the series, "they" should probably be directed at some other folks on the team no?

Without checking, a 4-1 goal differential over the last 3 playoffs is probably the best of any first line pairing in the league. Why blame them?
 
Ritchie - Tavares - Marner
Bunting - Matthews -Kase
Kerfoot - Nylander - Mikeyhev
Simmonds - Kampf - Spezza

Reilly - Brodie
Muzzin -Holl
Sandin - Liljegren
Dermott

Campbell
Mrazek

Nylander at Center will probably never happen again (if Keefe knows what's good for him).
 
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