Line Combos: Leafs roster [Before] & [After] and work in progress

[Bomber0104]

I’m sorry where did I critique his skating? Lol

It’s his off season training that I’m scrutinizing. He’s a twig

So is Matthews...

One of them PK's, and it ain't Auston.

Again, nitpicking..

Pick your spots.

 

[nsleaf]

Without something surprising coming (either a coaching change or a major trade moving one of the big contracts), is anyone here expecting somehing to be different in the coming season? It absolutely won't. If this is the team they're icing and with the same coaching staff, only a dreamer would expect better results.

If this is our team, my interest is at an all time low.

OK, see ya.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Without something surprising coming (either a coaching change or a major trade moving one of the big contracts), is anyone here expecting somehing to be different in the coming season? It absolutely won't. If this is the team they're icing and with the same coaching staff, only a dreamer would expect better results.

If this is our team, my interest is at an all time low.

My feelings as well. They could finish first overall in the regular season (definitely do not see that happening), but that means absolutely nothing to me. It’s what will they do in the playoffs that matter. If they fail to make the playoffs, or go out in the first round once again, BIG changes need to happen, starting with management and then Marner ($$ to spend to have a more balanced offense).

 

[Captain Crunch]

I mean, the Habs went to the finals and it isn’t like they “dominated” the leafs. Did anybody watch that series and really think that the Habs were the better team? They hardly carried the play at all. Just saying they won the series and that’s end of argument is a touch simplistic. The leafs stomped them but let off the gas up 3-1 and hopefully they have learned from that experience, especially the coach.

I’d expect the leafs to be one of the better teams in the league next year regular season and god forbid serious injuries and weak performance they will finally get somewhere with this core.

It might be a little too much to ask to expect them to “learn from their experiences” considering it’s happened at least 3 years in a row.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Galchenyuk or Ho-Sang, someone with some offensive upside would be nice. Maybe move Bunting or Ritchie down and have Simmonds/Spezza rotating in

I would prefer to keep Spezza in the lineup and have Simmonds sitting, only putting Simmonds in when Spezza needs a night off.

 

[Captain Crunch]

I just hope this team has the cap space to experiment more, not like last season where Keefe stuck to one lineup because they were so pressed to the cap.

That’s somewhat true. Not making major changes to the PP when it continued to be so abysmal falls ultimately on Keefe.

 

[Captain Crunch]

I honestly don’t even care for set lines for this season - I’m looking for something completely different. We have multiple players that can fill in given roles/ niches ala grinders, fore checkers, special teams specialists, etc., to round out the core players. The biggest blind spot is usage: the coach has shown us that he sticks with a given lineup through and through, even to the detriment of the team. Not only does this imply that the PTOs aren’t going to be making it, it also implies that the journeymen the Leafs acquire won’t be given a fair shake. I’m expecting a lineup near identical to last year’s, where we minimize prospects’ play time (sorry Sandin/Liljegren/Robertson) and fail to tap into the Marlies. Dermott will be the fall guy that will continue to see minimal minutes, oftentimes conceding these minimal minutes to Sandin. At the very least we can expect a save this year.

I’m hoping that Keefe had his hands tied in regards to how much Thornton was used, especially on the PP. If he doesn’t, he needs to go.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Just speaks to the parity in this league that if a team gets hot at the right time despite being below .500 that they can go on a run to the finals.

People are rightfully upset with the failures but the hyperbole of "can't get it done and will never get it done obviously" is pretty funny to me. I get that this loss hurt more than any of the rest... but seriously?

Price went vintage for 3 rounds and the Leafs lost their captain and one of the core 4 salaried players in g1. They still should have won but they overall carried the play in the series despite losing. It's awful and shitty but doesn't change the fact that margins are thin and there is a lot of variance year to year as you mentioned with your Pittsburgh example.

Another one is how Washington finally broke through the 2nd round and won the cup with frankly - a roster everyone thought was worse than the two years preceding.

I know I’m the type of person who unfortunately sees the glass as half empty as opposed to half full. Until I’m proven wrong (and believe me, I desperately want to), I don’t believe you can win the Cup with half your cap allotted to 2 centers and 2 wingers. And until Muzzin shows he can stay healthy (or one of our dmen can step up in his absence), as well as one or more of our forwards do the same (look at how the Islanders did without Anders Lee), I don’t feel we will be able to make a significant run in the playoffs.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Leafs in 2021-2022

Simmonds --- Matthews ---- Spezza
Bunting ------ Tavares ------- Kerfoot
Ritchie -------- Nylander ----- Marner
Mikheyev ----- Kämpf -------- Gabriel

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Dermott - Liljegren

Campbell
Mrazek

I would never want to see Simmonds on L1 or be anywhere near playing with Matthews. Maybe on the occasional PP where he’s creating havoc in front of the net.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Ritchie - Matthews - Nylander
Bunting - Tavares - Marner
Mikheyev - Kerfoot - Kase
Simmonds - Kampf - Spezza

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Dermott - Liljegren
Sandin

would love to see JT back with Marner and Matthews back with Nylander. I don’t know why we ever went away from that combination

If we don’t we might have to assume that Matthews and Marner have made it known that they must play together. If that’s true, then the Leafs are in bad shape (I have absolutely no inside knowledge of this, it’s just me assuming, and I realize to assume makes an ASS out of U and ME).

 

[The Shrike]

I mean, the Habs went to the finals and it isn’t like they “dominated” the leafs. Did anybody watch that series and really think that the Habs were the better team? They hardly carried the play at all. Just saying they won the series and that’s end of argument is a touch simplistic. The leafs stomped them but let off the gas up 3-1 and hopefully they have learned from that experience, especially the coach.

I’d expect the leafs to be one of the better teams in the league next year regular season and god forbid serious injuries and weak performance they will finally get somewhere with this core.

The Leafs outshot them 234 to 197 in the series, 109 to 83 in the last three games, so it wasn't really close. The difference was a .945 SV% for Price in those last three games vs. .892 for Campbell.

That's how it goes in the playoffs though, as goaltending is far more important than any other position, and theirs was clearly better in elimination games.

I agree the Leafs will be one of the better teams in the regular season, but the playoffs will once again come down to what they have between the pipes. Campbell choked once already, but that was his first playoffs, so maybe he'll hold his mud this time around. If not, hopefully we have another option in Mrazek now, as Andersen was a serial choker.

 

[Mess]

I would never want to see Simmonds on L1 or be anywhere near playing with Matthews. Maybe on the occasional PP where he’s creating havoc in front of the net.

The key is not to think of it as the #1 line, but rather just 1 of 3 top 9 balanced lines.

Splitting up the $11 mil players in an attempt to bring out the best out of the depth players making < $1 mil.

If you put all your star eggs in the same basket and the opposition shut them down, then its unrealistic to think having all your cheap contract players like Simmonds on lines with other cheap players to save the Leafs season and carry the team through the playoffs.

Who is Simmonds likely to be more productive with Matthews or playing on a 4th line with Engvall an Kampf? Besides stylistically, and about being able to win puck battles against better competition to replace Hyman in the top 6 that might in fact be Wayne as he has done it in the past.

 

[Captain Crunch]

The key is not to think of it as the #1 line, but rather just 1 of 3 top 9 balanced lines.

Splitting up the $11 mil players in an attempt to bring out the best out of the depth players making < $1 mil.

If you put all your star eggs in the same basket and the opposition shut them down, then its unrealistic to think having all your cheap contract players like Simmonds on lines with other cheap players to save the Leafs season and carry the team through the playoffs.

Who is Simmonds likely to be more productive with Matthews or playing on a 4th line with Engvall an Kampf? Besides stylistically, and about being able to win puck battles against better competition to replace Hyman in the top 6 that might in fact be Wayne as he has done it in the past.

I agree totally with what you’re saying, Mess. What I meant to say was I’d rather Simmonds plays sparingly, only being put in the lineup to rest Spezza or as an injury replacement.
It makes total sense to spread the offense out.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Did the 04 Leafs not win multiple rounds with an injured Sundin?

Not to mention the Islanders getting to the 3rd round and taking the Stanley Cup champs to game 7, all this without their captain, Anders Lee.

 

[Sypher04]

So is Matthews...

One of them PK's, and it ain't Auston.

Again, nitpicking..

Pick your spots.

Uh... Matthews is not a twig, at all. And I don't see what relevence Marner's time on the pk plays into any of what the post you replied to says.

 

[Mess]

I agree totally with what you’re saying, Mess. What I meant to say was I’d rather Simmonds plays sparingly, only being put in the lineup to rest Spezza or as an injury replacement.
It makes total sense to spread the offense out.

I just made up lines to make my point but Nick Ritchie could ride shotgun on LW with Matthews and you could move Simmonds to play with Nylander and Marner line to provide some much needed strength and muscle.

Wherever the chemistry works best and how to build 3 successful lines that you can role out and try and create opponent mismatches and headaches to attempt to stop.

Leafs have 82 regular season games to figure this out to prepare for the playoffs when it really matters.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I might be wrong, but I think Nylander is bit off a show off and likes to look that way.

Yep, and he also bulked up too much at one point, and it negatively affected his play. Arm size is the single least important thing for a player like Marner, who is smaller and relies on speed, agility, and vision. I think it's pretty obvious that we should trust the countless top-of-their-profession trainers, who all say Marner has excellent training and preparation, and not somebody pretending to be an expert on the matter because he looked at arm size in an offseason Instagram photo.

 

[hotpaws]

Yep, and he also bulked up too much at one point, and it negatively affected his play. Arm size is the single least important thing for a player like Marner, who is smaller and relies on speed, agility, and vision. I think it's pretty obvious that we should trust the countless top-of-their-profession trainers, who all say Marner has excellent training and preparation, and not somebody pretending to be an expert on the matter because he looked at arm size in an offseason Instagram photo.

can you provide a link to the countless top-of-their-profession trainers who all say Marner has ''excellent training and preparation''

 

[ULF_55]

Healthy

Mikheyev-Mathews-marner
Kerfoot-Tavares-Nylander
Ritchie-Kampf-Kase
Bunting-Engvall-Spezza/Simmons

waived: Brooks, Kurtis

Muzzin-Holl
Rielly-Brodie
Sandin-Dermott

Mrazek/Campbell

 

[Gary Nylund]

The Leafs outshot them 234 to 197 in the series, 109 to 83 in the last three games, so it wasn't really close. The difference was a .945 SV% for Price in those last three games vs. .892 for Campbell.

That's how it goes in the playoffs though, as goaltending is far more important than any other position, and theirs was clearly better in elimination games.

I agree the Leafs will be one of the better teams in the regular season, but the playoffs will once again come down to what they have between the pipes. Campbell choked once already, but that was his first playoffs, so maybe he'll hold his mud this time around. If not, hopefully we have another option in Mrazek now, as Andersen was a serial choker.

Number of shots rarely tells the whole story but if you want to focus on the numbers, Campbell's numbers were pretty great and show that he was one of our best players in the playoffs.

Did you even watch game 7? I did and what I saw that we played one of worst games of the year and that's been our calling card - in deciding games when winners compete as hard as they ever do, find that extra gear and leave it all out there, we shift into a lower gear and seem to say you want to win this game, OK take it because we have no idea how to even try stop you.

4 years in a row now when the deciding game is at hand, we play our worst game of the playoffs and get dominated. Blaming the goalie is convenient if you must have a scapegoat, I guess it's just a little bit too convenient for me.

 

[Racer88]

Yep, and he also bulked up too much at one point, and it negatively affected his play. Arm size is the single least important thing for a player like Marner, who is smaller and relies on speed, agility, and vision. I think it's pretty obvious that we should trust the countless top-of-their-profession trainers, who all say Marner has excellent training and preparation, and not somebody pretending to be an expert on the matter because he looked at arm size in an offseason Instagram photo.

Would these be the same professional trainers that are paid to train him……ya because they are not going to be biased at all. Lol.
They can no more trusted to be honest then any stranger off the street

 

[Captain Crunch]

I just made up lines to make my point but Nick Ritchie could ride shotgun on LW with Matthews and you could move Simmonds to play with Nylander and Marner line to provide some much needed strength and muscle.

Wherever the chemistry works best and how to build 3 successful lines that you can role out and try and create opponent mismatches and headaches to attempt to stop.

Leafs have 82 regular season games to figure this out to prepare for the playoffs when it really matters.

Yup! Fingers crossed!

 

[Dekes For Days]

Would these be the same professional trainers that are paid to train him...

Trainers who got to the top of their profession by getting their clients in peak physical condition, not by lying to make them feel better. Personal trainers, team trainers, coaches, his fellow players, etc. - people who are actually informed on the matter - all say the same thing. There is absolutely zero evidence that Marner does not train or prepare properly. It is a completely baseless claim.

 

[Captain Crunch]

The roster is the roster.... The same holds true today, as it did at the start of last season, and the start of the playoffs. We need our best players, to be our best players, and healthy. When they are, we can compete with anyone. If they aren't our best players, when it counts, we won't. We need regular season version of Marner, in the playoffs, and we need all of our young guys to step up and compete. It's a learning process, that takes time, and sometimes patience. Leafs Nation lacks patience, at an extreme level.

Maybe we get our impatience from management. The rebuild was going along smoothly, but then management threw that out the window when they signed Tavares, then gave in to Nylander, and the icing on the cake was backing up the Brinks truck for Marner.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The rebuild was going along smoothly, but then management threw that out the window when they signed Tavares, then gave in to Nylander, and the icing on the cake was backing up the Brinks truck for Marner.

The rebuild was over before any of Tavares, Nylander, or Marner signed their contracts.