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Young Up and Coming Genius Stevie Y Wings:

Bertuzzi 27 - Larkin 26 - Vrana 26
Raymond 20 - Copp 28 - Perron 34
Sundqvist 28 - Suter 26 - Kubalik 27
Erne 27 - Rasmussen 23 - Smith 24

Seider 21 - Hronek 25
Maata 28 - Chiarot 31
Oesterle 30 - Psysk 31
Kampfer 33

Husso 27
Ndejlovic 27


Old Broken Window Closed Dumbass Leafs:

Bunting 27 - Matthews 25 - Marner 25
Robertson 21 - Tavares 32 - Nylander 26
Kerfoot 28 - Kampf 27 - Engvall 26
Kubel 26 - bunch of 23yr olds

Muzzin 33 - Brodie 32
Sandin 22 - Rielly 28
Giordano 39 - Lilly 23
Holl 30

Murray 28
Samsonov 25
 
Young Up and Coming Genius Stevie Y Wings:

Bertuzzi 27 - Larkin 26 - Vrana 26
Raymond 20 - Copp 28 - Perron 34
Sundqvist 28 - Suter 26 - Kubalik 27
Erne 27 - Rasmussen 23 - Smith 24

Seider 21 - Hronek 25
Maata 28 - Chiarot 31
Oesterle 30 - Psysk 31
Kampfer 33

Husso 27
Ndejlovic 27


Old Broken Window Closed Dumbass Leafs:

Bunting 27 - Matthews 25 - Marner 25
Robertson 21 - Tavares 32 - Nylander 26
Kerfoot 28 - Kampf 27 - Engvall 26
Kubel 26 - bunch of 23yr olds

Muzzin 33 - Brodie 32
Sandin 22 - Rielly 28
Giordano 39 - Lilly 23
Holl 30

Murray 28
Samsonov 25
The Leafs top line is one of the best in the league for sure. The depth is where the issue is. This team doesn't have that depth to win. You can't say it is good cause it's a lot worse then last year. I don't get how so many can't or refuse to see that.
 
The Leafs top line is one of the best in the league for sure. The depth is where the issue is. This team doesn't have that depth to win. You can't say it is good cause it's a lot worse then last year. I don't get how so many can't or refuse to see that.
Because the negative Nancy's were whining about the same thing last year. Spezza too old...Kase fragile...Mik can't score. Bunting, Kampf? Who dem?
Aghhh! We're doomed!
Can we just wait til camp before we pronounce judgement on the off-season. Sheesh. Go outside and enjoy the sunshine. It's still a loooong summer.
 
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And now one team is old, bad, and in caphell.

The other is young and elite.
Which is which?

According to capfriendly, Leafs average age is 27.5, and Islanders average age is 28.3 (take out Parese and it's 27.8).

Leafs have just over $2M cap space, and Islanders have over $11M.

And the Islanders have better goaltending.
 
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Which is which?

According to capfriendly, Leafs average age is 27.5, and Islanders average age is 28.3 (take out Parese and it's 27.8).

Leafs have just over $2M cap space, and Islanders have over $11M.

you tell me.

* = RFA (I assume you want to pay these guys some of that capspace).

Lee 32 - Barzal 25 - Bailey 33
Palmiere 31 - Nelson 31 - Beauvilier 25
Parise 38 - Pageau 30 - Bellows* 24
Martin 33 - Cizikas 31 - Clutterbuck 35
Wahlstrom 23

Pelech 28 - Pulock 28
Dobson 23 - Mayfield 30
Aho 27 - Romanov* 23

Sorokin 27
Varlamov 34
 
you tell me.

* = RFA (I assume you want to pay these guys some of that capspace).

Lee 32 - Barzal 25 - Bailey 33
Palmiere 31 - Nelson 31 - Beauvilier 25
Parise 38 - Pageau 30 - Bellows* 24
Martin 33 - Cizikas 31 - Clutterbuck 35
Wahlstrom 23

Pelech 28 - Pulock 28
Dobson 23 - Mayfield 30
Aho 27 - Romanov* 23

Sorokin 27
Varlamov 34
So the difference between 'old' and 'young' is about 9 months, and 'cap hell' is having $11M instead of $2M?
 
So the difference between 'old' and 'young' is about 9 months, and 'cap hell' is having $11M instead of $2M?

"9 months"

Your entire team is over the hill and they all have long expensive contracts.
 
"9 months"

Your entire team is over the hill and they all have long expensive contracts.
Not 'my' team per se, but why is nine months the tipping point for 'over the hill'? Pesonally, if there's one player on either team who I would consider 'over the hill' with a 'long expensive contract', it's likely JT.

Rielly's contract is as long or longer (and appreciably more expensive) that their two longest, which are for two excellent defencemen, both of whom are younger than him.
 
Bunting 27 - Matthews 25 - Marner 25
Robertson 21 - Tavares 32 - Nylander 26
Kerfoot 28 - Kampf 27 - Engvall 26
Kubel 26 - bunch of 23yr olds

Muzzin 33 - Brodie 32
Sandin 22 - Rielly 28
Giordano 39 - Lilly 23
Holl 30

Murray 28
Samsonov 25

Boy I hope this comes to fruition and Robertson usurps Kerfoot if a LW trade isn’t in the cards. While obviously some size would be nice, Leafs more than anything just need another scoring threat in the top 6.
 
Well Perron might provide experience and material effect in games that decide whether we go on to the second round as a starter. And as for Andrew Copp...because he is that versatile W/C player teams covet. Overpaid? Hardly. Market value...Just not ours.

And with respect to Matthews and Marner, my point with respect to repeated context is cap flexibility to acquire depth and move it while only positively affecting our general outcome. We do not have that type of latitude.

As players, Marner and Matthews are better than what Detroit has at the moment. Maybe even better than what Colorado can muster on a player by player comparison. But with Matthews and Marner and our limitations we were nowhere near Colorado's depth. And I'm not sure, absent the very welcome and unforeseen emergence of certain prospects ie Kniess. that we'll match a healthy Rangers or Lightning club.

I'm not blind to our promise or our needs and I'm not so insecure as to want the obvious improvements of other teams to be deficiencies just to cope with the very hard questions Toronto is going to have to face too soon for comfort.

Our club lost to Montreal and Columbus. I see the potential each season against champions and we've likely had it harder than most and we need to account for growth. But...Detroit has a chance to do damage and we as a fanbase would be insane to forget how high this club can appear and how bafflingly impotent we have been against lesser clubs.
This post is so f***ing spot on a like just wasn't enough.
 
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Young Up and Coming Genius Stevie Y Wings:

Bertuzzi 27 - Larkin 26 - Vrana 26
Raymond 20 - Copp 28 - Perron 34
Sundqvist 28 - Suter 26 - Kubalik 27
Erne 27 - Rasmussen 23 - Smith 24

Seider 21 - Hronek 25
Maata 28 - Chiarot 31
Oesterle 30 - Psysk 31
Kampfer 33

Husso 27
Ndejlovic 27


Old Broken Window Closed Dumbass Leafs:

Bunting 27 - Matthews 25 - Marner 25
Robertson 21 - Tavares 32 - Nylander 26
Kerfoot 28 - Kampf 27 - Engvall 26
Kubel 26 - bunch of 23yr olds

Muzzin 33 - Brodie 32
Sandin 22 - Rielly 28
Giordano 39 - Lilly 23
Holl 30

Murray 28
Samsonov 25
Sandin isn't a guarantee to make their roster yet he's in our top 4 in a brag post?

Just stick to our forwards if you're making a point, things get ugly after that.
 
I'd say one advantage we have over Ottawa is way better medical, development and training staff. Hopefully they can work with Murray. Listened that Woodley bit from podcast and it seems like they have a clue what to do with Murray and he has been underdog before. It's still gamble, but in fairness it would have been even with Jack. He had that great stretch at the start of the season and it was real spotty after that.

In overall I think it's way too early to judge our team right now. Would think we'll see some moves before preseason and it should affect our bottom6.

I loved the Woodley media tour today about Murray rebuilding his game, getting a narrower stance to improve lateral mobility and better post integration. Didn’t like the Biron comments about Murray playing stiff and not having that explosive athleticism.
 
Young Up and Coming Genius Stevie Y Wings:

Bertuzzi 27 - Larkin 26 - Vrana 26
Raymond 20 - Copp 28 - Perron 34
Sundqvist 28 - Suter 26 - Kubalik 27
Erne 27 - Rasmussen 23 - Smith 24

Seider 21 - Hronek 25
Maata 28 - Chiarot 31
Oesterle 30 - Psysk 31
Kampfer 33

Husso 27
Ndejlovic 27


Old Broken Window Closed Dumbass Leafs:

Bunting 27 - Matthews 25 - Marner 25
Robertson 21 - Tavares 32 - Nylander 26
Kerfoot 28 - Kampf 27 - Engvall 26
Kubel 26 - bunch of 23yr olds

Muzzin 33 - Brodie 32
Sandin 22 - Rielly 28
Giordano 39 - Lilly 23
Holl 30

Murray 28
Samsonov 25
You've got a few ages wrong and you're missing likely insertions in Detroit like Berggren and Edvinsson, maybe Soderblom and new players like Veleno and Zadina.

And you're missing a link to CapFriendly that outlines our draft capital and theirs and our cap model and theirs.

A question: Is it questions about your analysis that you're insecure about or any analysis that contrasts facts that paint our club's future in an uncertain light as to why you reflex towards hyperbole?
 
You've got a few ages wrong and you're missing likely insertions in Detroit like Berggren and Edvinsson, maybe Soderblom and new players like Veleno and Zadina.

And you're missing a link to CapFriendly that outlines our draft capital and theirs and our cap model and theirs.

A question: Is it questions about your analysis that you're insecure about or any analysis that contrasts facts that paint our club's future in an uncertain light as to why you reflex towards hyperbole?

1. The ages are right.
2. I didn't miss anyone.
3. The wings have $10m in capspace at the moment.
4. By "Cap Model" I guess you're referring to them not having players as good as Matthews and Marner.
5. Zadina and Velena aren't new guys they're guys that have been there and right now are on the outside looking jn on a team that finished 25th.

Question: is it really that hard for you to deal with real facts when they clash with your uninformed opinion?
 
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Yzerman let Stamkos kicked tires before coming back, and we all know what happened with Drouin for Sergachev...seriously, we would drool if the Leafs had a GM like Yzerman...who wouldn't trade Dubas for Yzerman in a heartbeat?

I can name a dozen posters off the top of my head. LOL.

Well Perron might provide experience and material effect in games that decide whether we go on to the second round as a starter. And as for Andrew Copp...because he is that versatile W/C player teams covet. Overpaid? Hardly. Market value...Just not ours.

And with respect to Matthews and Marner, my point with respect to repeated context is cap flexibility to acquire depth and move it while only positively affecting our general outcome. We do not have that type of latitude.

As players, Marner and Matthews are better than what Detroit has at the moment. Maybe even better than what Colorado can muster on a player by player comparison. But with Matthews and Marner and our limitations we were nowhere near Colorado's depth. And I'm not sure, absent the very welcome and unforeseen emergence of certain prospects ie Kniess. that we'll match a healthy Rangers or Lightning club.

I'm not blind to our promise or our needs and I'm not so insecure as to want the obvious improvements of other teams to be deficiencies just to cope with the very hard questions Toronto is going to have to face too soon for comfort.

Our club lost to Montreal and Columbus. I see the potential each season against champions and we've likely had it harder than most and we need to account for growth. But...Detroit has a chance to do damage and we as a fanbase would be insane to forget how high this club can appear and how bafflingly impotent we have been against lesser clubs.

Awesome objective post. :clap:
 
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Trying to get a handle where we're at:


Last Year scrap IN: Amadio, Semyonov, Ho-Sang, Biega, Dahlstrom
This Year scrap IN: Gaudette, Malgin, Mete, Benn


Last Year G OUT: Andersen, Hutton
Last Year G IN: Mrazek, Kallgren

This Year G OUT: Campbell, Mrazek
This Year G IN: Murray, Samsonov


Last Year D OUT: Bogosian
Last Year D IN: none (sandin/Lilly fulltime)

This Year D OUT: Lyubushkin
This Year D IN: none (Gio fulltime)


Last Year F OUT: Hyman, Foligno, Galchenyuk, Thornton
Last Year F IN: Bunting, Kampf, Kase, Ritchie

This Year F OUT: Mikheyev, Blackwell, Kase, Spezza
This Year F IN: Kubel, (Kids fulltime?)
 
1. The ages are right.
2. I didn't miss anyone.
3. The wings have $10m in capspace at the moment.
4. By "Cap Model" I guess you're referring to them not having players as good as Matthews and Marner.
5. Zadina and Velena aren't new guys they're guys that have been there and right now are on the outside looking jn on a team that finished 25th.

Question: is it really that hard for you to deal with real facts when they clash with your uninformed opinion?

Uninformed opinion you say? Well the first time I did it from memory, this time I'll include the link from CapFriendly that provides the picture and the proof contrary to your strong preferences.

1. Detroit : Ned is 26. The ages are not entirely right. Which is consistent with my comment that you FACTUALLY missed a few.

2. Detroit : You missed Filip Zadina as one example. He played 74 games last season. So you missed at least one on the roster that doesn't accord to your slant. Joe Veleno played 66 games as another example.

Ask any Wings fan worth their salt and they will know the names Berggren, Edvinsson and Soderblom as ones with a reasonable projection to be a Red Wing if not this season than certainly next. Their ages don't accord with your bias so I understand more now about the omissions such as they are.

3. Detroit : Right. I'm not sure the gotcha inclusion element of this will have gone as you imagined, but if you look at committed dollars for the 2023-2024 season and compare it with Toronto ...Well...Let's just be gracious and give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't bother to look at the column after this upcoming season before your excess of confidence compelled you to post.

Oh and then there's draft picks.

4. By cap model I mean the plain numbers provided in the links that demonstrate the difference between immobility and a limitation of options going forward in order to maintain integrity (ie Toronto) and Detroit who will do next free agent season what they did this season.

Detroit doesn't have Matthews and Marner or Tavares as if that's the feather in your best stewarding of resources argument, correct. And when Dylan Larkin and Bertuzzi re-sign, they might not make as much as a re-signed Matthews or a re-signed Marner. Both of which make more than Kucherov, Point, MacKinnon, etc, etc...as if the point needs to be repeated for the potential horror it will become when we have to offer Matthews $14M to stay and Marner about $11-12M.

And have a gander at the draft picks.

5. Joe Veleno has played of 71 games. He's a new addition who graduated from Grand Rapids this past season. The excluded Zadina is outside looking in. But this past season was his first full season. With this summer's acquisitions, he's hard pressed to remain. Especially with Berggren knocking on the door, Raymond having replaced his promise and Soderblom a serious threat.

And so what if they finished this past season in 25th place.

In 2015-2016 Toronto finished with 69 points and placed...
In 2016-2017 having drafted Matthews Toronto finished with 95 points where our goals for went from 27th...to 5th.

And you're straight-faced going to claim that what Detroit added won't provide substantial difference?

Not to mention the draft picks.

So to your last question: is it really that hard for you to deal with real facts when they clash with your uninformed opinion?

Perhaps an important question here is: What do you think my (uninformed?) opinion is?

CapFriendly links provided for anyone to conclude who is uninformed here. Our previous comments are time-stamped and numbered. What you mean by "real facts" and "uninformed opinion" is found in that always expanding, incantational dictionary entitled: The Gaslighter's Guide to Guile.
 
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Uninformed opinion you say? Well the first time I did it from memory, this time I'll include the link from CapFriendly that provides the picture and the proof contrary to your strong preferences.

1. Detroit : Husso is 26. The ages are not entirely right. Which is consistent with my comment that you FACTUALLY missed a few.

Husso is 27. Born February 1995.

The Ages are all correct.

2. Detroit : You missed Filip Zadina as one example. He played 74 games last season. So you missed at least one on the roster that doesn't accord to your slant. Joe Veleno played 66 games as another example.

Yes, they did play at the bottom of the 25th placed roster last year, and with the new additions this year are likely off the roster. If you want to stick one of them in there ahead of Smith no problem

Ask any Wings fan worth their salt and they will know the names Berggren, Edvinsson and Soderblom as ones with a reasonable projection to be a Red Wing if not this season than certainly next. Their ages don't accord with your bias so I understand more now about the omissions such as they are.

Yes I know every single Detroit prospect is awesome and every leafs prospect sucks.


3. Detroit : Right. I'm not sure the gotcha inclusion element of this will have gone as you imagined, but if you look at committed dollars for the 2023-2024 season and compare it with Toronto ...Well...Let's just be gracious and give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't bother to look at the column after this upcoming season before your excess of confidence compelled you to post.

You're right - they do have to give a bunch of raises to a bunch of core players next year.

Oh and then there's draft picks.

4. By cap model I mean the plain numbers provided in the links that demonstrate the difference between immobility and a limitation of options going forward in order to maintain integrity (ie Toronto) and Detroit who will do next free agent season what they did this season.

Detroit doesn't have Matthews and Marner or Tavares as if that's the feather in your best stewarding of resources argument, correct. And when Dylan Larkin and Bertuzzi re-sign, they might not make as much as a re-signed Matthews or a re-signed Marner. Both of which make more than Kucherov, Point, MacKinnon, etc, etc...as if the point needs to be repeated for the potential horror it will become when we have to offer Matthews $14M to stay and Marner about $11-12M.

And have a gander at the draft picks.
Yes by Cap Model you mean they don't have players as good as Matthews and Marner. I know.

5. Joe Veleno has played of 71 games. He's a new addition who graduated from Grand Rapids this past season. The excluded Zadina is outside looking in. But this past season was his first full season. With this summer's acquisitions, he's hard pressed to remain. Especially with Berggren knocking on the door, Raymond having replaced his promise and Soderblom a serious threat.

Yes Veleno had one of the last spots on the roster of a 25th placed team. I know. He likely loses his spot with the new additions.

And so what if they finished this past season in 25th place.

In 2015-2016 Toronto finished with 69 points and placed...
In 2016-2017 having drafted Matthews Toronto finished with 95 points where our goals for went from 27th...to 5th.

And you're straight-faced going to claim that what Detroit added won't provide substantial difference?

The Leafs added Matthews and Marner and were an instant playoffs team.

The wings added Seider and Raymond and were a 25th placed team.
Not to mention the draft picks.

So to your last question: is it really that hard for you to deal with real facts when they clash with your uninformed opinion?

Perhaps an important question here is: What do you think my (uninformed?) opinion is?

CapFriendly links provided for anyone to conclude who is uninformed here. Our previous comments are time-stamped and numbered. What you mean by "real facts" and "uninformed opinion" is found in that always expanding, incantational dictionary entitled: The Gaslighter's Guide to Guile.

Absolutely. All the info shared here is easily checkable. You should start checking.
 
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Well I think it's safe to say the defense is better than it was last year.

Rielly
Brodie
Muzin
Holl
Giordano
Lilly
Sandin
Mete
Benn

that is 9 NHL NHL caliber D men that's some pretty good depth

In fact that's almost to much it makes me wonder if a trade is coming because you can't play 9 D men

I'm wondering if the Leafs are going to package somebody for a forward because there is a hole on forward and like I said you can't play 9 D men
 
Well I think it's safe to say the defense is better than it was last year.

Rielly
Brodie
Muzin
Holl
Giordano
Lilly
Sandin
Mete
Benn

that is 9 NHL NHL caliber D men that's some pretty good depth

In fact that's almost to much it makes me wonder if a trade is coming because you can't play 9 D men

I'm wondering if the Leafs are going to package somebody for a forward because there is a hole on forward and like I said you can't play 9 D men
Trade...or for waiver purposes when the time arrives for the inevitable cuts that have to happen prior to the start of the season.
 
Well I think it's safe to say the defense is better than it was last year.

Rielly
Brodie
Muzin
Holl
Giordano
Lilly
Sandin
Mete
Benn

that is 9 NHL NHL caliber D men that's some pretty good depth

In fact that's almost to much it makes me wonder if a trade is coming because you can't play 9 D men

I'm wondering if the Leafs are going to package somebody for a forward because there is a hole on forward and like I said you can't play 9 D men

Not sure that I'd agree with that sentiment.

Ilya Lyubushkin was a GREAT fit for this team, and gave the Leafs the best 1-8 group they've had in a number of years.

Yes, Mete and Benn are better than whomever our 9th defenceman was last year, but at least one of them will likely have to pass through waivers this year.

Toronto has been guilty of "shuffling the deck chairs" on the cruise ship for a few years now. Last year, they obviously had an opportunity with Andersen & Hyman out to take some low-level risks in the form of Ritchie, Kase and Kampf.

This year, they haven't shed anyone of material salary, gave a raise to Rielly, and are spending an additional $1.1m on goaltending that IMO, is worse than what they had last year.

Leafs need to find a way to get A LOT more creative than they've so far shown this offseason. A good team has the likes of Aube-Kubel and Engvall on their 4th line. While Nick Robertson is probably ready for the NHL, I don't think he fits on this team.

On D, they've gotta make some decisions already. There isn't room for Rielly, Muzzin, Giordano and Sandin.
 
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