Leafs moves Work in progress - Depth update

[zeke]

He brought what your spreadsheets don't measure

And managed to be the only playoffs minus on the dcorp while playing the fewest minutes.

 

[notDatsyuk]

And managed to be the only playoffs minus on the dcorp while playing the fewest minutes.

Tavares was the only one of the four main centers who wasn't a plus in the playoffs. Was he "so damn bad" too?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Not sure that I'd agree with that sentiment.

Ilya Lyubushkin was a GREAT fit for this team, and gave the Leafs the best 1-8 group they've had in a number of years.

Yes, Mete and Benn are better than whomever our 9th defenceman was last year, but at least one of them will likely have to pass through waivers this year.

Toronto has been guilty of "shuffling the deck chairs" on the cruise ship for a few years now. Last year, they obviously had an opportunity with Andersen & Hyman out to take some low-level risks in the form of Ritchie, Kase and Kampf.

This year, they haven't shed anyone of material salary, gave a raise to Rielly, and are spending an additional $1.1m on goaltending that IMO, is worse than what they had last year.

I don't know that the goaltending is worse than it was last you, you got to remember it was a disgrace the SECOND December hit and it continued to be a disgrace until the end of the season.

Now if you have Samsonov and Murray and for as many questions as I have about Murray and I do, I have WAY WAY more confidence in Murray than Mrazek.

I feel like the talent with Murray is still there, I say flashes if it last season when I watched Sens games.

With Mrazek I don't think it's there with Mrazek I think him and his groin made of melted cheese is done because unlike Murray who was usually good when he played except for the last 2 starts which killed his numbers.

When Mrazek played Mrazek sucked there is a difference there.

Then you get to Campbell and Samsonov.

I think Samsonov has HUGE potential I really do, I think that could be a steal

When the off season started I had Blackwood on my list of goalies I would have liked Toronto to traget, I didn't have Samsonov because I didn't think he would be on the outs in Washington.

But a lot of the things I like about Blackwood I like about Samsonov

I like the age

both guys have shown in the recent past that they are capable goalies

both are cheap

If Samsonov can reach his potential then the goaltending isn't worse it's much better.

Now that's not a sure thing but I think the goaltending as the potential to be the strength of this team

and if that is true then with the way this team can score I don't see this team as worse

 

[notDatsyuk]

Trying to get a handle where we're at:


Last Year scrap IN: Amadio, Semyonov, Ho-Sang, Biega, Dahlstrom
This Year scrap IN: Gaudette, Malgin, Mete, Benn


Last Year G OUT: Andersen, Hutton
Last Year G IN: Mrazek, Kallgren

This Year G OUT: Campbell, Mrazek
This Year G IN: Murray, Samsonov


Last Year D OUT: Bogosian
Last Year D IN: none (sandin/Lilly fulltime)

This Year D OUT: Lyubushkin
This Year D IN: none (Gio fulltime)


Last Year F OUT: Hyman, Foligno, Galchenyuk, Thornton
Last Year F IN: Bunting, Kampf, Kase, Ritchie

This Year F OUT: Mikheyev, Blackwell, Kase, Spezza
This Year F IN: Kubel, (Kids fulltime?)

What happened to Ho-Sang? I thought he was suppposed to be the steal of the century, spending a month or two with the Marlies before coming up and dominating the league.

I don't recall hearing anything about him after about November.

 

[zeke]

What happened to Ho-Sang? I thought he was suppposed to be the steal of the century, spending a month or two with the Marlies before coming up and dominating the league.

I don't recall hearing anything about him after about November.

You didn't hear that from me.

 

[rocketman588]

you tell me.

* = RFA (I assume you want to pay these guys some of that capspace).

Lee 32 - Barzal 25 - Bailey 33
Palmiere 31 - Nelson 31 - Beauvilier 25
Parise 38 - Pageau 30 - Bellows* 24
Martin 33 - Cizikas 31 - Clutterbuck 35
Wahlstrom 23

Pelech 28 - Pulock 28
Dobson 23 - Mayfield 30
Aho 27 - Romanov* 23

Sorokin 27
Varlamov 34

So they need to pay the exact same number of RFAs that we have to?

 

[deprw]

I loved the Woodley media tour today about Murray rebuilding his game, getting a narrower stance to improve lateral mobility and better post integration. Didn’t like the Biron comments about Murray playing stiff and not having that explosive athleticism.

I think truth at the moment is between these two. There is problems and there is hope. We know these and we can try to fix them. I would love to get this evaluations of Campbell and Kuemper. Though wanting fair media narrative is bit naive. At the same time there 30 year Stanley Cup drought in Canada and I think it has something to do with media being pretty harsh and annoying with it's narratives. Kadri is a problem with 4.5 million to a point where he is Stanley Cup winner and now everyone is happy when someone pays him 9 million dollars a season.

About stiff and not having athleticism. There are people on this forum that wanted to keep McElhinney, which is best example of not having either. So maybe those same people will love Murray!

Always loved that discussion Sparks over McElhinney. Latter was great 2nd goalie for Vasilevski that plays every game, but would have been disaster here if played over 20 games.

I wonder if any of our two new guys have that same tendencies of being great 2nd goalie like McElhinney was.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Malgin, Samsonov, Aube-Kubel, Guadette...

This is the worst free agency day in history.

How can leaf fans stand behind this?

These signings only cover the goaltending (God help us), and one 4th line position. Dubas is far from doing something to improve the team.

We don't really have a choice. its just happening

 

[saltming]

Malgin, Samsonov, Aube-Kubel, Guadette...

This is the worst free agency day in history.

How can leaf fans stand behind this?

These signings only cover the goaltending (God help us), and one 4th line position. Dubas is far from doing something to improve the team.

If, big if, the Gosselin works out how is that note improving the team?
Goaltending is the most important position

 

[TMLAM34]

It’s very unfortunate, but no one can say this team is better than last years. Which is very disappointing.

 

[Macallan18]

Boosh was so damn bad.

I agree, I wish Keefe did too.

 

[ITM]

Husso is 27. Born February 1995.

The Ages are all correct.

Edited to read: Alex Nedeljkovic is 26, not Husso. But again your infallible claim falls and my incidental note to as much remains.

Yes, they did play at the bottom of the 25th placed roster last year, and with the new additions this year are likely off the roster. If you want to stick one of them in there ahead of Smith no problem

It's not that I want to stick one player in or remove one towards one agenda or another...it's where Detroit is in their development with various players in the same way Liljegren and Sandin are included in your Toronto rosters.

Parity is charity.

Yes I know every single Detroit prospect is awesome and every leafs prospect sucks.

You behave as though criticism of Toronto or worse, criticism of Toronto in comparison to another club's positive elements is a kind of disloyalty. I think that type of behavior is supposed to resolve with maturity.

You're right - they do have to give a bunch of raises to a bunch of core players next year.

You're wrong. Your intentional misrepresentation about my obvious point: Detroit has cap flexibility enough to re-sign it's core players and sign core players to supplement them.

List "bunch" along with that cap space if you will.

Yes by Cap Model you mean they don't have players as good as Matthews and Marner. I know.

But that's not my point re: cap model. The point has been stated and repeated. As a Leafs fan I'm not denigrating Matthews and Marner in terms of quality. I'm comparing the elasticity with which Detroit will be able to move forward without worry.

Whereas we are heading towards an organizational cap precipice. We'll either re-sign these players for a combination somewhere near $25M dollars and lose Nylander. Or we'll lose them both given our inability to supplement necessary depth, and our contention clock will be reset again back to the beginning of another rebuild.

Being able to spend twice as much in two seasons is going to have an incredible effect on Detroit.

We're in danger of being San Jose.

Yes Veleno had one of the last spots on the roster of a 25th placed team. I know. He likely loses his spot with the new additions.

But omitted him. Moreover he's a rookie. The normal expectation is that players like Veleno and Sandin don't have monumental individual impact. I know: You'll chirp Matthews and Marner vs Seider and Raymond. But that's not the comparison. The comparison is about the organization being able to build and move forward.

I'm entirely aware of where we're at presently: Record setting regular season. Individual records and awards. And in constant desperate cap knots where retaining quality NECESSARY support is concerned. Teams that have built championship teams didn't build the way we did.

That Tavares signing is weighty for so many reasons. And the leveraged effect it may have on Matthews's decision to remain, remains to be seen.

And the fact that Detroit is building properly shouldn't be cause for you to descend into willful misrepresentation. That's just weird.

The Leafs added Matthews and Marner and were an instant playoffs team.

They also added a new coach before that season in Mike Babcock.

The wings added Seider and Raymond and were a 25th placed team.

They also added a new coach before this season in Lalonde. Let's watch and see if all these additions equate to a playoffs birth.

Absolutely. All the info shared here is easily checkable. You should start checking.

I did. As an exercise editing Ned for Husso should stand as an example of what you can do regarding all of your noted errors. A mistake here and there is normal, Zeke. It's nothing to amend and continue.

Holding yourself to be infallible when you're not and have been proven not to be however, is peculiar.

 

[Americanadian]

He brought what your spreadsheets don't measure

Boosh is actually an analytics darling. His detractors are usually eye test people.

 

[The Masters]

Get Milano and Reese

 

[notDatsyuk]

You didn't hear that from me.

Or from me, but there were certainly several posters here who acted that way for a while.

I'd forgotten about him until you mentioned his name.

 

[fahad203]

It’s very unfortunate, but no one can say this team is better than last years. Which is very disappointing.

We still have another 9 months to improve the team. We are focusing on playoffs, not start of the season

I am ok Kyle not doing anything during FA. Let them figure out what we have internally.

It's time our young lads gets some good opportunities. I am sick and tired of seeing Simmonds, Joe Thornton, Vessey, Clifford taking opportunities away from yound kids

Play the young kids, give them good NHL experience. Our core relatively young and very polished. They don't need aging vets to tell them what works and what doesn't. Now it has to come from within

Lockeroom leadership is highly overrated. Auston Matthews gotta be his own leader so does Marner. They have been here long enough

 

[Stephen]

Boosh is actually an analytics darling. His detractors are usually eye test people.

Boosh was a serviceable cheap player for us with a play type to fill a role we normally don’t have. There’s definite a Survivor factor between him and Holl.

 

[Fogelhund]

Depth update from @Kyle_Cush

 

[zeke]

It’s very unfortunate, but no one can say this team is better than last years. Which is very disappointing.

The Cap Hell crowd were convinced the team would get significantly worse.

From where I sit the stuff we've lost is stuff we can realistically expect our kids to replace, and if they can't, then we can always make deadline upgrades as needed.

 

[DarkKnight]

Boosh was a serviceable cheap player for us with a play type to fill a role we normally don’t have. There’s definite a Survivor factor between him and Holl.

Perhaps top pair with Reilly was an odd fit, but they cycled out Boosh a few shifts to keep his minutes reasonable for his skill set, I actually thought they made it work. Nobody has ever claimed he’s a world beater, but most hockey people could see he brought an element the Leafs needed and was quite effective on the wall and clearing the net, which is exactly why he worked his way into a regular role, supplanting guys like Holl. I would love to have keeped him, but we can’t afford him. Perhaps we could have with 50 percent retention

 

[Fogelhund]

It’s very unfortunate, but no one can say this team is better than last years. Which is very disappointing.

Work in progress. It's July 15th. This isn't an opening night roster, and the bottom line is... what does the team look like after the trade deadline. There will be changes on what "appears" to be our lineup, between now and the drop of the puck in October. There will be 3-5 changes to the lineup, from the drop of the puck in October, and the start of the playoffs. They don't hand out trophies for paper lineups in July, and all that matters is the playoffs right?

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I am puzzled by the recent signings of Mete and Benn, but I'm not here to bash these signings. They are neither here nore there. They might exist to bolster the Marlies. I don't know. I do think it warrants a discussion about the team's defensive depth, and speculation as to what's to happen with Muzzin/Sandin/Holl.

As of now our defensive depth is:

Rielly (L)
Brodie (R)
Muzzin(L)
Giordano(L)
Liljegren(R)
Holl(R)
Sandin(L)
Benn(L)
Mete(L)

Obviously there are 1 or 2 Marlies that could make the jump to the bottom 6.

I don't know. It seems to me that TOR's D depth is going to remain. It seems like there's balanced amount of talent. I think Sandin as number 7 is fine too. Someone will no doubt get injured.

Are people expecting Dubas to trade Holl? I wonder if he'll keep him. I know he's expensive for a number 6 D, but heck! Tavares is an expensive 2nd line center. He protected Holl in the expansion draft too.

Maybe all these acquisions lead to a possible trade to upgrade in other areas. I don't know.

I guess my point is that he Benn/Mete signings could mean things go either way.

 

[Stephen]

I am puzzled by the recent signings of Mete and Benn, but I'm not here to bash these signings. They are neither here nore there. They might exist to bolster the Marlies. I don't know. I do think it warrants a discussion about the team's defensive depth, and speculation as to what's to happen with Muzzin/Sandin/Holl.

As of now our defensive depth is:

Rielly (L)
Brodie (R)
Muzzin(L)
Giordano(L)
Liljegren(R)
Holl(R)
Sandin(L)
Benn(L)
Mete(L)

Obviously there are 1 or 2 Marlies that could make the jump to the bottom 6.

I don't know. It seems to me that TOR's D depth is going to remain. It seems like there's balanced amount of talent. I think Sandin as number 7 is fine too. Someone will no doubt get injured.

Are people expecting Dubas to trade Holl? I wonder if he'll keep him. I know he's expensive for a number 6 D, but heck! Tavares is an expensive 2nd line center. He protected Holl in the expansion draft too.

Maybe all these acquisions lead to a possible trade to upgrade in other areas. I don't know.

I guess my point is that he Benn/Mete signings could mean things go either way.

Hard to say. I would expect some kind of movement involving 1-2 of Muzzin, Holl or Sandin to add more talent back to the forward group based on that defensive depth chart. But they did completely miss the early UFA buy period so would we be making pure hockey trades at this point.

 

[Fogelhund]

I am puzzled by the recent signings of Mete and Benn,

Nothing to read into it, other than we have depth in case of injuries.

Trades/upgrades, could happen and we'd still need the same depth. I suspect if we make trades on D, it will be about bringing in qualities we don't have... as in, giving up a guy like Sandin, for more physicality... or something like that.

 

[zeke]

Just a note that while all the other top teams have lost actual impact core players (Kadri/Burakovsky, McDonagh/Palat, Giroux/Marchment), the Leafs haven't.

I guess you could say Mikheyev is comparable to Marchment, though i don't think many here would have said that during the season.