Leafs moves Work in progress - Depth update

[hamzarocks]

Matching up with the Leafs "outside their best players" means they don't match up.

They match up with 2017 toronto top to down outside of AM34

Raymond just had 57 in 82. Just needs to improve a bit to hit Marners 69 in 82 level

We didn't have a 50 pt 1D rookie. We had a 70 pt 1C rookie

If Seider plays at a 55-60pt 1D level they match us just in a different postion.

They'll need top 10 goaltending like we got with Andersen in 2017 if they want to make the playoffs

 

[Mess]

As the non playoff teams in the Atlantic got stronger the better teams got weaker and the gap is closing.

Ottawa added 41 goal scoring 23 year old Alex DeBrincat, a elite playmaking centre in Claude Giroux and they replaced often injured Matt Murray with a $7 mil cap who won 5 games last year, with Cam Talbot making $3.66 mil AAV won 32 games (2.75 GAA and .911 sv%) you know your moving in the right direction.

Ottawa is still not done according to GM Dorion still looking for a top 4 Dman and has kicked tires on UFAs and exploring trades like Jakob Chychrun.

When you add DeBrincat and Giroux to group of youngsters like Brady Tkachuk, Tim Stützle, Josh Norris, Drake Batherson & Alex Formenton suddenly your offense looks a lot more formidable.

Adding DeBrincat (82 games 41-37-78 points) & Giroux (75 games 21-44-65 points) is almost like adding a William Nylander ( 81 games 34-46-80 pts) + John Tavares (79 games 27-49-76 pts) without subtraction.

Our Leafs saw 40+ goals walk alone out the door with Mikheyev, Spezza and Kase and Ottawa just added a 40+ goal scorer in Debrincat as the gap between Haves and Have Nots narrows.

Objects in your rearview mirror are closer than they appear.

 

[ITM]

They were the 25th place team last year.

...that added significantly throughout the lineup and changed their head coach.

Aside from their 2 nice rooks last year they aren't even an especially young team.

I think you might be unfamailiar with Detroit's state of affairs: Elmer Soderblom is coming over. He won what Seider won. Edvinsson is coming over. Berggren who is 21 is poised to make the jump very soon.

Larkin will be 26 at the start of the season. Bertuzzi, 27 and so's Husso; Hronek, 24. Suter will be 26 and so will Vrana and so will Nedljkovic.

As for their 2 nice rooks: One won the Calder. It doesn't get better. And Seider is absolutely the real deal.

They just added some old 2nd liners, an awful dman, and another unproven goalie, at great expense. Their free agent season is highly suspect.

Highly suspect? I might be inclined to say the same thing if I didn't admire Yzerman's industry. He signed Husso, Copp, Perron and Chariot...all pieces we could and should have been in on.

Husso for a 3rd is "at great expense"? On a club who has used draft picks in the way we have that may be. Detroit on the other hand is FLUSH at foreseeable draft tables. And again, their cap management is nearly ideal. At great expense...maybe to our model, not Detroit's.

I'm not sure what you mean by "highly suspect". Like Bunting "highly suspect" or Murray "highly suspect"? Or "old", Zeke: Copp's 28; Kubalik's 27. Now go on and list the other names with numbers above, to say nothing of Seider, Raymond, Veleno and Rasmussen.

Perron's 34 and Chariot's 31. So while Chariot's pushing it, he's Perron's age and a bit by the end of his contract. Perron's going to be that veteran leaderhip for Detroit's forwards that every club should have. That we should have had and a need specifically his name that we failed to attract or rather, were unable to get.

And they have a number of key players going UFA next season, including Larkin and Bertuzzi.

Again, perhaps a little of the Leafs Nation fiscal PTSD going on, but Detroit has latitude the likes of which we won't in the foreseeable future. They're not hamstrung by term or dollar amount or the appearance of quality in those contracts. There is no Tavares. They're not held hostage by Marner and Matthews pact.

To think Larkin and Bertuzzi would present re-signing problems is to fundamentally not understand Detroit's situation now and going forward.

 

[Mess]

and still break franchise records ... lol

Thanks Auston

Hart, Lindsay and Rocket Richard trophies and 60 goals and 106 points.

Not hard when you have the Leagues MVP and leading goal scorer.

The objective however is to build a winning playoff team around him.

 

[rocketman588]

...that added significantly throughout the lineup and changed their head coach.



I think you might be unfamailiar with Detroit's state of affairs: Elmer Soderblom is coming over. He won what Seider won. Edvinsson is coming over. Berggren who is 21 is poised to make the jump very soon.

Larkin will be 26 at the start of the season. Bertuzzi, 27 and so's Husso; Hronek, 24. Suter will be 26 and so will Vrana and so will Nedljkovic.

As for their 2 nice rooks: One won the Calder. It doesn't get better. And Seider is absolutely the real deal.


Highly suspect? I might be inclined to say the same thing if I didn't admire Yzerman's industry. He signed Husso, Copp, Perron and Chariot...all pieces we could and should have been in on.

Husso for a 3rd is "at great expense"? On a club who has used draft picks in the way we have that may be. Detroit on the other hand is FLUSH at foreseeable draft tables. And again, their cap management is nearly ideal. At great expense...maybe to our model, not Detroit's.

I'm not sure what you mean by "highly suspect". Like Bunting "highly suspect" or Murray "highly suspect"? Or "old", Zeke: Copp's 28; Kubalik's 27. Now go on and list the other names with numbers above, to say nothing of Seider, Raymond, Veleno and Rasmussen.

Perron's 34 and Chariot's 31. So while Chariot's pushing it, he's Perron's age and a bit by the end of his contract. Perron's going to be that veteran leaderhip for Detroit's forwards that every club should have. That we should have had and a need specifically his name that we failed to attract or rather, were unable to get.



Again, perhaps a little of the Leafs Nation fiscal PTSD going on, but Detroit has latitude the likes of which we won't in the foreseeable future. They're not hamstrung by term or dollar amount or the appearance of quality in those contracts. There is no Tavares. They're not held hostage by Marner and Matthews pact.

To think Larkin and Bertuzzi would present re-signing problems is to fundamentally not understand Detroit's situation now and going forward.

They also have 11 mil left. If they decide to add Naz to that lineup they're 100% a threat

 

[JT AM da real deal]

What other NHL team in history has ever had to tear down its roster like this every year due to CAP before even winning a 1st round series? I get Chicago and Tampa having to do it makes sense they deserved it. Bottom line you don't pay young guys HUGE $$$ until they have won something. Great for kids, terrible for team. And on top of it they will give team finger at end and leave at UFA unless they get a lot more $$$.

 

[stealth1]

You think the 25th place team is a threat because they added Copp and Chiarot?

I wouldn't say necessarily say a threat but I don't see a repeat of 115 pts again. On paper the Leafs aren't as good as last season and Detroit, Buffalo and Ottawa all got better.

 

[TMLAM34]

Larkin, Raymond, Bertuzzi, Vrana, Copp, and Perron is a very solid top six. Detroit will be solid.

 

[Stephen]

They match up with 2017 toronto top to down outside of AM34

Raymond just had 57 in 82. Just needs to improve a bit to hit Marners 69 in 82 level

We didn't have a 50 pt 1D rookie. We had a 70 pt 1C rookie

If Seider plays at a 55-60pt 1D level they match us just in a different postion.

They'll need top 10 goaltending like we got with Andersen in 2017 if they want to make the playoffs

Detroit doesn’t really match up at the top end offensive end. But you could make the argument that having a McDavid or Matthews creates unique pressures on the cap and the way you build.

 

[Stephen]

What other NHL team in history has ever had to tear down its roster like this every year due to CAP before even winning a 1st round series? I get Chicago and Tampa having to do it makes sense they deserved it. Bottom line you don't pay young guys HUGE $$$ until they have won something. Great for kids, terrible for team. And on top of it they will give team finger at end and leave at UFA unless they get a lot more $$$.

I think the medium term play is just to contend and tread water until the next Matthews, Nylander and Marner deals are signed. In two years time, Brodie, Muzzin, Murray will be off the books or on different contracts and in three years John Tavares shackles come off which represents over $25 million in flexibility. So combine with the cap rising expect to see the program refreshed after JT.

 

[CupcakeSprinkles]

I think the medium term play is just to contend and tread water until the next Matthews, Nylander and Marner deals are signed. In two years time, Brodie, Muzzin, Murray will be off the books or on different contracts and in three years John Tavares shackles come off which represents over $25 million in flexibility. So combine with the cap rising expect to see the program refreshed after JT.

You have to think Dylan Strome is looking at cementing a role on the Leafs while this transition for JT is happening.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think the medium term play is just to contend and tread water until the next Matthews, Nylander and Marner deals are signed. In two years time, Brodie, Muzzin, Murray will be off the books or on different contracts and in three years John Tavares shackles come off which represents over $25 million in flexibility. So combine with the cap rising expect to see the program refreshed after JT.

Do you actually see Nylander re-signing here?

 

[thewave]

Thanks Auston

View attachment 569164 View attachment 569166

Hart, Lindsay and Rocket Richard trophies and 60 goals and 106 points.

Not hard when you have the Leagues MVP and leading goal scorer.

The objective however is to build a winning playoff team around him.

Build a winning playoff team around him. YES. Exactly, or else he will not stay because being competitive, will want to go to a place he is well paid and has the best chance of winning. Legacy

Do you actually see Nylander re-signing here?

I don't.

 

[stealth1]

I think the medium term play is just to contend and tread water until the next Matthews, Nylander and Marner deals are signed. In two years time, Brodie, Muzzin, Murray will be off the books or on different contracts and in three years John Tavares shackles come off which represents over $25 million in flexibility. So combine with the cap rising expect to see the program refreshed after JT.

If that's the case Dubas should be shown the door.

 

[thewave]

If that's the case Dubas should be shown the door.

We will just assume they are staying and will take a team friendly deal next time around. Very safe sounding, what could go wrong?

 

[Stephen]

You have to think Dylan Strome is looking at cementing a role on the Leafs while this transition for JT is happening.

He’s not really the right play style answer but we are thirsting for more ability so I would take him if he wants to treat the Leafs like fantasy camp for a year or two.

 

[Stephen]

If that's the case Dubas should be shown the door.

If I were to read the situation I think he’s closer to the door than he’s ever been.

 

[stealth1]

If I were to read the situation I think he’s closer to the door than he’s ever been.

I have a feeling that he's gone at season's end. I don't see either of these goalies ending up better then Campbell

 

[Captain Crunch]

Interesting theory since they hit record regular season points.

That’s true, but they continue to shit the bed in the playoffs.

 

[zeke]

I wouldn't say necessarily say a threat but I don't see a repeat of 115 pts again. On paper the Leafs aren't as good as last season and Detroit, Buffalo and Ottawa all got better.

because the Leafs lost a 3rd liner?

 

[stealth1]

because the Leafs lost a 3rd liner?

Their goalies are worse on paper and right now the bottom 6 are worse when last season.

 

[CupcakeSprinkles]

I have a feeling that he's gone at season's end. I don't see either of these goalies ending up better then Campbell

Campbell had terrible numbers this year..

 

[Trapper]

Thanks Auston

View attachment 569164 View attachment 569166

Hart, Lindsay and Rocket Richard trophies and 60 goals and 106 points.

Not hard when you have the Leagues MVP and leading goal scorer.

The objective however is to build a winning playoff team around him.

Exactly. You need the right team. Individual is great, but the right team mix wins it.

 

[stealth1]

Campbell had terrible numbers this year..

Murray and Samsonov are just as bad. IMO it's too big of a gamble in hopes that one of them finds their game. Analytics wise Comrie was the best available and he didn't cost as much as Murray.

 

[Captain Crunch]

I think the medium term play is just to contend and tread water until the next Matthews, Nylander and Marner deals are signed. In two years time, Brodie, Muzzin, Murray will be off the books or on different contracts and in three years John Tavares shackles come off which represents over $25 million in flexibility. So combine with the cap rising expect to see the program refreshed after JT.

The only problem with that is the way Dubus has given away draft pics because of the players he has signed which haven’t worked out. A team needs to have some players on ELCs to help balance out the cap. But because Dubas has had to include draft picks to get rid of the contracts, we won’t be having much of any players coming up from the minors to help balance that cap.