Leafs moves Work in progress - Depth update

[ShaneFalco]

he biggest new forward signing to date was Nicolas Aube-Kubel from the Avs .. He dressed for 14 games and recorded 0-0-0 points (healthy scratch for 6 others) . His career playoff stats 27 games 2-1-3 points.

And yet Keefe sees him as a Mik replacement

 

[4thline]

Anyone else remember when OP believed that Bunting was going to be fighting with Amadio and Brooks for a 4th line/ 13th forward spot, a lot of people that never watch a game that doesn't involve the Leafs thought Kampf was a below average 4c, the sky was falling and we were going to be a bubble team?

 

[Legion34]

And yet Keefe sees him as a Mik replacement

That seems about his exact scoring playing against actual goalies in the playoffs.

Sooooo maybe he is a good replacement?

 

[daethfromabove1979]

Years of bad drafting and player development is really catching up to the Leafs. That forward depth is ugly. More than ever, we need guys playing on ELCs but the options are weak. Nick Robertson basically has to make the team, Abruzzese isn’t ready, Joey Anderson is no good, might need Pontus Holmberg to make the team. Geez.

 

[ITM]

LOL at all the people actually thinking Ottawa & Detroit are threats to us this year. Absolutely no chance

With respect to Detroit...

If Yzerman's plan is to shift Copp to the wing where he belongs, I'd take Detroit's wingers over ours. Detroit's goaltending might be better than ours. They have the best 1D between the two teams in their Calder winning defenseman, Moritz Seider. They've got Edvinsson coming over to boot. They signed Chariot. I think they just signed Pysyk. They've got Hronek...

If I'm Yzerman I'm calling Kadri saying, Look at who we've added. We think you're the missing piece. Larkin moves to 2C and Kadri to 1C. They're 3C Rasmussen is up and coming, a former (2017) 9th overall pick and he's 6'6".

And they've got a new coach from Tampa hand-picked by Yzerman who knows the organization inside and out and who spent the better part of 25 years toiling to get this chance.

And you think that club has no chance?

 

[Mess]

And yet Keefe sees him as a Mik replacement

While its still early and lots time granted, but isn't the general idea if your team is not good enough to win in the playoffs the objective is to get better?

I'm have a hard time seeing how these Day 1 signings are even replacing our depth lost players like Spezza , Mikheyev, & Kase ..

I can see Kubel replacing Collin Blackwell perhaps as someone Leafs picked up at the trade deadline and filled out the 4th line as depth, because that is what Colorado did when they claimed Aube-Kubel off waivers from Philly last year and used him as their 12/13th forward, and he got a chance to play when Naz got injured.

If you go from a 3rd line of Mikheyev -- Kampf --- Kase to ------> Aube-Kubel -- Kampf -- Audette is that really better?

I guess we have to wait patiently to see what is still to come and maybe Kerfoot and Sandin trades reshape the Leafs roster.

 

[thewave]

With respect to Detroit...

If Yzerman's plan is to shift Copp to the wing where he belongs, I'd take Detroit's wingers over ours. Detroit's goaltending might be better than ours. They have the best 1D between the two teams in their Calder winning defenseman, Moritz Seider. They've got Edvinsson coming over to boot. They signed Chariot. I think they just signed Pysyk. They've got Hronek...

If I'm Yzerman I'm calling Kadri saying, Look at who we've added. We think you're the missing piece. Larkin moves to 2C and Kadri to 1C. They're 3C Rasmussen is up and coming, a former (2017) 9th overall pick and he's 6'6".

And they've got a new coach from Tampa hand-picked by Yzerman who knows the organization inside and out and who spent the better part of 25 years toiling to get this chance.

And you think that club has no chance?

Good analysis, worth more than just a Like.

 

[zeke]

With respect to Detroit...

If Yzerman's plan is to shift Copp to the wing where he belongs, I'd take Detroit's wingers over ours. Detroit's goaltending might be better than ours. They have the best 1D between the two teams in their Calder winning defenseman, Moritz Seider. They've got Edvinsson coming over to boot. They signed Chariot. I think they just signed Pysyk. They've got Hronek...

If I'm Yzerman I'm calling Kadri saying, Look at who we've added. We think you're the missing piece. Larkin moves to 2C and Kadri to 1C. They're 3C Rasmussen is up and coming, a former (2017) 9th overall pick and he's 6'6".

And they've got a new coach from Tampa hand-picked by Yzerman who knows the organization inside and out and who spent the better part of 25 years toiling to get this chance.

And you think that club has no chance?

You think the 25th place team is a threat because they added Copp and Chiarot?

 

[Mess]

Years of bad drafting and player development is really catching up to the Leafs. That forward depth is ugly. More than ever, we need guys playing on ELCs but the options are weak. Nick Robertson basically has to make the team, Abruzzese isn’t ready, Joey Anderson is no good, might need Pontus Holmberg to make the team. Geez.

The one prospect that I can see being a difference maker is Matthew Knies to get excited about, but he won't be available until after his next college season ends.

He could slot into a top 6 spot beside JT come playoff time and might be a difference maker. So lots of optimism there.

So perhaps because of Leafs limited cap space their simply trying to buy time during the regular season waiting for help to arrive come playoff time.

 

[ShaneFalco]

While its still early and lots time granted, but isn't the general idea if your team is not good enough to win in the playoffs the objective is to get better?

I'm have a hard time seeing how these Day 1 signings are even replacing our depth lost players like Spezza , Mikheyev, & Kase ..

I can see Kubel replacing Collin Blackwell perhaps as someone Leafs picked up at the trade deadline and filled out the 4th line as depth, because that is what Colorado did when they claimed Aube-Kubel off waivers from Philly last year and used him as their 12/13th forward, and he got a chance to play when Naz got injured.

If you go from a 3rd line of Mikheyev -- Kampf --- Kase to ------> Aube-Kubel -- Kampf -- Audette is that really better?

I guess we have to wait patiently to see what is still to come and maybe Kerfoot and Sandin trades reshape the Leafs roster.

Right now I don't see how anyone can argue we're a better team than last year. There's time however, and more moves to come.

 

[MLSE]

The cap not moving much really screwed us.

The depth will take a big hit this year, damn.

 

[bentharbs]

I'm just out here hoping Dubas can get in on a few of Milano, Steel, Aston-Reese, D Strome, and one or two more depth guys after trading Holl and Kerfoot.

lol here's hoping.

 

[Mess]

With respect to Detroit...

If Yzerman's plan is to shift Copp to the wing where he belongs, I'd take Detroit's wingers over ours. Detroit's goaltending might be better than ours. They have the best 1D between the two teams in their Calder winning defenseman, Moritz Seider. They've got Edvinsson coming over to boot. They signed Chariot. I think they just signed Pysyk. They've got Hronek...

If I'm Yzerman I'm calling Kadri saying, Look at who we've added. We think you're the missing piece. Larkin moves to 2C and Kadri to 1C. They're 3C Rasmussen is up and coming, a former (2017) 9th overall pick and he's 6'6".

And they've got a new coach from Tampa hand-picked by Yzerman who knows the organization inside and out and who spent the better part of 25 years toiling to get this chance.

And you think that club has no chance?

ESPN agrees with your assessment as they declared Detroit among the big winners yesterday.

2022 NHL free agency: Winners and losers of Day 1​

WINNERS​

Detroit Red Wings​

General manager Steve Yzerman put in work on Wednesday, signing a haul of good players on solid contracts.

Let's run back the list of key additions: Andrew Copp (five years, $5.625 million AAV), Ben Chiarot (four years, $4.75 million AAV), David Perron (two years, $4.75 million AAV) and Dominik Kubalik (two years, $2.5 million AAV). That's a fine foursome of players in their own right, and Yzerman has to be pleased about how they'll complement the Red Wings' current group of young talent. A new goalie in Ville Husso in net (three years $4.75 million AAV.

Chiarot has a chance to pair up with Calder Trophy winner Moritz Seider, who will undoubtedly elevate Chiarot's game. Perron had a career season with the St. Louis Blues in 2021-22 and will be a versatile middle-six piece for the Red Wings. Copp is a Michigan native excited to be joining his hometown team after a successful post-trade tenure with the New York Rangers (18 points in 16 games). And Kubalik? He's a former 30-goal scorer who didn't receive a qualifying offer from Chicago. The 26-year-old will be motivated to prove he's still got it.

The newcomers up front will join Lucas Raymond, Tyler Bertuzzi and Dylan Larkin to make the Red Wings look suddenly much more formidable, and Yzerman is obviously showing that Detroit won't be a pushover in the stacked Atlantic Division.

Winners and losers of Day 1 of NHL free agency, plus the best remaining players

The Red Wings and Hurricanes are among the teams which did well, while the Flyers and others did ... not so well. We digest the opening round of deals here.

www.espn.com

With almost $12 mil in free cap space the Wings are not done yet.

 

[81Leafs50]

Interesting see a team getting worse every year

and still break franchise records ... lol

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

I wish Knies had left school to join the Leafs. He'd be perfect on the left side of either Matthews or Tavares right now, with Bunting occupying the left side of the other line.

I also feel like we need to either give Robertson a chance or trade him while he still has value. Obviously health is a factor with him, but if healthy he needs to be on a scoring line (possibly with Tavares and Nylander) to show what he's got, not with checkers.

Steeves and Anderson will hopefully battle it out for bottom 6 roles.

 

[ITM]

You think the 25th place team is a threat because they added Copp and Chiarot?

Well the word used was chance. Contextually I do believe Detroit has a "chance" to be a threat, yes. Moreover IF (and it's a big if) Kadri chooses Detroit.

Again, contextually, Seider is the straw that stirs the drink on D. Adding a stay at home solid D like Chariot amplifies him, or Hronek or Edvinsson.

Copp is the perfect top 6 depth piece who can interchange between wing and centre. Then there's Bertuzzi. And Vrana, Suter, the newly signed Kubalik and of course Perron. Add Copp and yes, that once 25th place team has better wing depth in their top 9 than we do.

Husso was a prime choice by many here as the best option outside of Campbell. And for others, the best statistical option. Nedeljkovic and Husso is a better tandem than ours.

I don't think you'll die on the hill that teams can't drastically improve. Moreover when their additions reason as much. I don't know how instrumental Lalonde was in Tampa. But my sense, Yzerman does.But I'm betting on Yzerman's analysis as much as my own that Detroit is going to be much harder to play against this season.

Zeke, we for all intents and purposes have been that "25th place team" that rose sharply owing to improved additions. Detroit's 2022 free agent summer is an A+...so far.

So that's this season. We should talk about the two organizations moving forward.

By all means, take a gander at that team's cache of picks in the next three drafts and their projected cap and then determine if you think "25th place team" describes Detroit in any way, shape or form.

 

[ACC1224]

With respect to Detroit...

If Yzerman's plan is to shift Copp to the wing where he belongs, I'd take Detroit's wingers over ours. Detroit's goaltending might be better than ours. They have the best 1D between the two teams in their Calder winning defenseman, Moritz Seider. They've got Edvinsson coming over to boot. They signed Chariot. I think they just signed Pysyk. They've got Hronek...

If I'm Yzerman I'm calling Kadri saying, Look at who we've added. We think you're the missing piece. Larkin moves to 2C and Kadri to 1C. They're 3C Rasmussen is up and coming, a former (2017) 9th overall pick and he's 6'6".

And they've got a new coach from Tampa hand-picked by Yzerman who knows the organization inside and out and who spent the better part of 25 years toiling to get this chance.

And you think that club has no chance?

Good post, the Division has definitely gotten tougher. Top teams all look to have regressed a bit and a few at the bottom seem to have improved.

 

[zeke]

Well the word used was chance. Contextually I do believe Detroit has a "chance" to be a threat, yes. Moreover IF (and it's a big if) Kadri chooses Detroit.

Again, contextually, Seider is the straw that stirs the drink on D. Adding a stay at home solid D like Chariot amplifies him, or Hronek or Edvinsson.

Copp is the perfect top 6 depth piece who can interchange between wing and centre. Then there's Bertuzzi. And Vrana, Suter, the newly signed Kubalik and of course Perron. Add Copp and yes, that once 25th place team has better wing depth in their top 9 than we do.

Husso was a prime choice by many here as the best option outside of Campbell. And for others, the best statistical option. Nedeljkovic and Husso is a better tandem than ours.

I don't think you'll die on the hill that teams can't drastically improve. Moreover when their additions reason as much. I don't know how instrumental Lalonde was in Tampa. But my sense, Yzerman does.But I'm betting on Yzerman's analysis as much as my own that Detroit is going to be much harder to play against this season.

Zeke, we for all intents and purposes have been that "25th place team" that rose sharply owing to improved additions. Detroit's 2022 free agent summer is an A+...so far.

So that's this season. We should talk about the two organizations moving forward.

By all means, take a gander at that team's cache of picks in the next three drafts and their projected cap and then determine if you think "25th place team" describes Detroit in any way, shape or form.

They were the 25th place team last year.

Aside from their 2 nice rooks last year they aren't even an especially young team.

They just added some old 2nd liners, an awful dman, and another unproven goalie, at great expense. Their free agent season is highly suspect.

And they have a number of key players going UFA next season, including Larkin and Bertuzzi.

 

[hamzarocks]

You think the 25th place team is a threat because they added Copp and Chiarot?

Also added Perron

They're a threat to steal more pts and be a fringe playoff team rather than 25th in the league.

Not to far from the 2017 leafs if they get good goaltending

Fortunately the leafs are much better than 2017 so barring major injuries to core pieces (Tampa 2017) we should be a top 3 spot still

They got their young studs in raymond/seider/edvinsson if he comes over

Got their in Prime core pieces in Vrana, Larkin, Bertuzzi

Got some proven top 6/9 players to compliment the above copp, perron, kubalik

 

[zeke]

Also added Perron

They're a threat to steal more pts and be a finger playoff team rather than 25th in the league.

Not to far from the 2017 leafs if they get good goaltending

Fortunately the leafs are much better than 2017 so barring major injuries to core pieces (Tampa 2017) we should be a top 3 spot still

They got their young studs in raymond/seider/edvinsson if he comes over

Got their in Prime core pieces in Vrana, Larkin, Bertuzzi

Got some proven top 6/9 players to compliment the above copp, perron, kubalik

If the 2017 Leafs didn't have Matthews and Marner you mean.

 

[Stephen]

Years of bad drafting and player development is really catching up to the Leafs. That forward depth is ugly. More than ever, we need guys playing on ELCs but the options are weak. Nick Robertson basically has to make the team, Abruzzese isn’t ready, Joey Anderson is no good, might need Pontus Holmberg to make the team. Geez.

What also compounds our depth problems now is the Leafs have been drafting without anticipating big team needs. So a real lack of bottom 6 bodies and skill sets coming up while we need them. Meanwhile the Big 4 forwards are still there so there’s typically ever going to be 2 top 6 forward jobs ever available. And you typically don’t even want to support Willie and Mitchie with smaller, less skilled versions of them.

 

[hamzarocks]

If the 2017 Leafs didn't have Matthews and Marner you mean.

Yeah but they make up for that with some better proven core players

Larkin+Vrana+Bertuzzi > JVR, Kadri(2017), Bozak

Raymond probably won't be much off from 2nd season marner who was a 70 point 1st liner

They don't have a Matthews, but the leafs didn't and still don't have a Seider whose going to be absolutely elite

They've got some very nice pieces. If goaltending can hold up they should be a 90-95 pt team that can be competitive

 

[zeke]

Yeah but they make up for that with some better proven core players

Larkin+Vrana+Bertuzzi > JVR, Kadri(2017), Bozak

Raymond probably won't be much off from 2nd season marner who was a 70 point 1st liner

They don't have a Matthews, but the leafs didn't and still don't have a Seider whose going to be absolutely elite

They've got some very nice pieces. If goaltending can hold up they should be a 90-95 pt team that can be competitive

Larkin bertuzzi vrana are no better than Nylander Kadri jvr were.

 

[hamzarocks]

Larkin bertuzzi vrana are no better than Nylander Kadri jvr were.

Nylander is/was a core player so his comp would be Edvinsson when he makes it but even then he only had 61 in 82 in 2017

Larkin had 69 in 71 this year, Bertuzzi like 62 in 68 and Vrana 19 in 26.

If those three aren't better than the three mentioned above but comparable that's a compliment and strengh for the wings. Leafs made the 2017 playoffs largely as a result of strong forward depth and top to bottom offensive contributions

They're next batch is

Copp, Perron, Kubalik . So that would be Komo, Bozak , Brown for us

They match pretty well with the 2017 leafs outside of AM34 which they make up for in part in Seider who just had 50 in 82 as a 20 year old rookie D

They most likely don't make the playoffs due to Atlantic top 4 being still good but they'll be a wildcard threat and won't be in 70s pt ranges anymore

 

[zeke]

Nylander is/was a core player so his comp would be Edvinsson when he makes it but even then he only had 61 in 82 in 2017

Larkin had 69 in 71 this year, Bertuzzi like 62 in 68 and Vrana 19 in 26.

If those three aren't better than the three mentioned above but comparable that's a compliment and strengh for the wings. Leafs made the 2017 playoffs largely as a result of strong forward depth and top to bottom offensive contributions

They're next batch is

Copp, Perron, Kubalik . So that would be Komo, Bozak , Brown for us

They match pretty well with the 2017 leafs outside of AM34 which they make up for in part in Seider who just had 50 in 82 as a 20 year old rookie D

They most likely don't make the playoffs due to Atlantic top 4 being still good but they'll be a wildcard threat and won't be in 70s pt ranges anymore

Matching up with the Leafs "outside their best players" means they don't match up.