Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose

[Niagara Bill]

Trading Marner isn't the answer. Our offense is dry enough already. We need to find left wingers that actually click with our top players because Bert and Knies are not it. They should be racking up easy numbers in this top 6 but for whatever reasons they are not. Bunting would be a huge upgrade right now. Our left wingers blow.

Wrong, trading Mitvhy MAY be the answer if done correctly. He is leaving next yr anyway. Not trading him us dumb.

 

[SnizzNasty88]

That pathetic loser piece of shit fraud Dubas absolutely destroyed this team. Imagine being so incompetent to f*** up a rebuild like this.

 

[HellasLEAF]

That pathetic loser piece of shit fraud Dubas absolutely destroyed this team. Imagine being so incompetent to f*** up a rebuild like this.

I completely agree. It was the inexperience of Dubus, player greed too early in contract cycle and the pandemic/hard cap. That unholy triumvirate has sunk the team.

They must retool until JT is up now it's the hard truth. 2 year asset freeze. We will thank ourselves for this sacrifice years from now..

 

[ToneDog]

Not sure that's fair, it might be that our core just doesn't have the right stuff. Then the mistake was betting on the core but 99.9% of GM's would have done the same.

Agreed that they might not have the right stuff, but there is no denying they are better players 5+ years later. If that is true, the rest of the team has regressed. All you have to do is look at what we had in 2018/2019 and what we have today.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Can anyone imagine what may happen if Clutterbuck, in their last game this season against each other crosschecked Sid, or Tkachuk, either one, or Macar or Hughes, or any other of many captains. Or McDavid...omg.
The Leafs...oh wait we have to go home and watch the Masked Singer or Hudson and Rex. Screw JT. .Sickening.

 

[Fogelhund]

Nylander
post signing - 8 points in 11 games
before signing - 54 points in 37 games.

I don't think Nylander is a player who stops trying, but certainly there is something psychological in all of this. He just doesn't seem to have the same moments he had earlier in the year, where he'd just dominate play. It also coincides with Tavares being completely snake bitten, so it might be more the JT effect. Perhaps it's time to flip Marner and Nylander again, and see if we can get everyone going.

They need to avoid "pee-wee" mistakes and give up break aways, either on the PP, or just as they end. Just mental lapses.

Knies just isn't producing at all... he plays well, but the length of the season seems to have worn him out, compared to the college season.

Bertuzzi is pretty good at dumb penalties, but another ineffective player, who doesn't mesh.

Domi and Robertson seem to need Jarnkrok back for them to work. Hopefully soon. They did have 9 shot attempts for, vs. 5 against though.

4th line got cratered last night. It's a weird mix of players thrown together at this point...

Tavares.Nylander.Bertuzzi's highlight is 18 shot attempts for, 11 against, so... positive ,but 0 goals for, 1 against.

This just isn't a team that is ready, or mentally prepared to take the next step.

 

[Nineteen67]

Why would it be a difficult time next year?

If he refused to waive his NMC it would be a circus

 

[ToneDog]

I completely agree. It was the inexperience of Dubus, player greed too early in contract cycle and the pandemic/hard cap. That unholy triumvirate has sunk the team.

They must retool until JT is up now it's the hard truth. 2 year asset freeze. We will thank ourselves for this sacrifice years from now..

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The Rangers had the balls to take a step back to take two forward. I doubt Shanny would do that now after saying this core will win for the past half decade.

 

[Evilhomer]

Nylander
post signing - 8 points in 11 games
before signing - 54 points in 37 games.

I suspect it's more just Tavares slumping at the same time. I don't think there will be any issue with Nylander. Before long he will be back to racking up points.

 

[weems]

Nylander
post signing - 8 points in 11 games
before signing - 54 points in 37 games.

I don't think Nylander is a player who stops trying, but certainly there is something psychological in all of this. He just doesn't seem to have the same moments he had earlier in the year, where he'd just dominate play. It also coincides with Tavares being completely snake bitten, so it might be more the JT effect. Perhaps it's time to flip Marner and Nylander again, and see if we can get everyone going.

They need to avoid "pee-wee" mistakes and give up break aways, either on the PP, or just as they end. Just mental lapses.

Knies just isn't producing at all... he plays well, but the length of the season seems to have worn him out, compared to the college season.

Bertuzzi is pretty good at dumb penalties, but another ineffective player, who doesn't mesh.

Domi and Robertson seem to need Jarnkrok back for them to work. Hopefully soon. They did have 9 shot attempts for, vs. 5 against though.

4th line got cratered last night. It's a weird mix of players thrown together at this point...

Tavares.Nylander.Bertuzzi's highlight is 18 shot attempts for, 11 against, so... positive ,but 0 goals for, 1 against.

This just isn't a team that is ready, or mentally prepared to take the next step.

There's alot of underachieving going on this season.

At some point the coach needs to wear some of this.

I don't usually like blaming coaches and he's not the only issue but we should be better than a bubble team.

 

[ToneDog]

Can anyone imagine what may happen if Clutterbuck, in their last game this season against each other crosschecked Sid, or Tkachuk, either one, or Macar or Hughes, or any other of many captains. Or McDavid...omg.
The Leafs...oh wait we have to go home and watch the Masked Singer or Hudson and Rex. Screw JT. .Sickening.

A year ago Matty would have skated away. He was sort of engage last night when it happened. Progress.

 

[Evilhomer]

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The Rangers had the balls to take a step back to take two forward. I doubt Shanny would do that now after saying this core will win for the past half decade.

Agreed. If they have been patient to this point, I don't see them tossing that patience aside now.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You guys are obsessed with the first place thing. Turns out, barring the unexpected the rest of the season, I was wrong. I guess that never happens here?

As for Domi and Bertuzzi, I don't think any team would give a first round pick for Domi. I suspect they could get one for Bertuzzi because there are teams out there that would look past his numbers this season, but I think it's all irrelevant because I just don't see Treliving doing it.

LOL take it easy. Not obsessed, just having some fun with you because you were saying with such certainty that we'd be in first and my point all along was that there's nothing wrong with making predictions but guaranteeing things the way you were doing is kind of ridiculous. Anyhow, we're in February now so we don't need wait to see if anything unexpected happens the rest of the season, we already know that you were wrong. And yes it happens all the time, I hardly ever make predictions myself, I can only remember making four re. the Leafs during the last 10 years or so and I was wrong on one of them so there you go.

I'm so used to the Leafs doing dumb things that I don't expect Treliving to trade these guys either but as I said earlier, I'm generally more interested in discussing what should be done then reading people's minds. If we could get a first for Bertuzzi, I say we should do it in an instant.

 

[ACC1224]

If he refused to waive his NMC it would be a circus

There would be no need to make it public. If it did come out, Marner is very popular amongst the fans and teammates, he certainly wouldn't face any backlash.

 

[Racer88]

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The Rangers had the balls to take a step back to take two forward. I doubt Shanny would do that now after saying this core will win for the past half decade.

It is both sad and pathetic to watch teams that were behind us in aspirations 2-3 years ago blow by us while we are mired in the same mud year after year after.

 

[SnizzNasty88]

Dubas is the definition of an unmitigated disaster. He absolutely destroyed this team as I said in a post above. He pissed away so many picks when we weren’t even close to a cup contending team and the contracts he gave out, my god. And then people want to even utter a word about Tre? When he signed seemingly the best forward available in free agency from the worst crop of free agents since 2016? My goodness. Tre has a lot of mess to clean up no thanks to that piece of shit fraud pathetic loser Dubas. I knew from day one he was a f***in loser and was proven right each year. Words don’t even begin describe how much I loathe Dubas and now all of us loyal fans are paying for it no thanks to an absolute boatload of mistakes he made that none of us would even come close to making if we were the GM. Could you actually imagine trading a 1st for Foligno and exposing McCann and protecting Holl? Jesus tapdancing Christ hahahaha

 

[Gary Nylund]

Agreed that they might not have the right stuff, but there is no denying they are better players 5+ years later. If that is true, the rest of the team has regressed. All you have to do is look at what we had in 2018/2019 and what we have today.

You could also argue that the regression happened this past summer after Dubas left, all you have to do is look at what we had last season and what we have today.

 

[Fogelhund]

Agreed that they might not have the right stuff, but there is no denying they are better players 5+ years later. If that is true, the rest of the team has regressed. All you have to do is look at what we had in 2018/2019 and what we have today.

Except the regression is this year only... last year was the best results this group has had, in any measurable way.

Some of it is no fault of anyone, just time... Tavares, Brodie, Giordano have all declined at a very rapid rate. Tavares I'm not ready to count out, his play is still strong, he's just not getting results... which often does trend back to a norm... unless that little bit of a lost step has killed him, which we'll know over a longer time period.

Some of this is just Tre's mistakes. We had a solid defensive team, even if the depth scoring wasn't there. Now our team D has suffered, and we are actually worse at depth scoring. His signings, except Benoit have largely been disappointing, though I don't have an issue with Domi's production for his dollars. (Though Domi only has 2 points in the last 12 games).

I don't dislike Keefe, but there is a lack of sharpness to this team, that perhaps a new coaching voice can change... or maybe the players aren't coachable, or aren't winners. I think that coaching change should be made now.

It might also be time for a complete purge in the front office... Shanahan down... it's been a decade and it's not working. That's enough time. Some fresh eyes are needed, to determine which of the core just doesn't have it to compete and win. That's the important thing, finding solutions, not necessarily which GM is to blame..

 

[Fogelhund]

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The Rangers had the balls to take a step back to take two forward. I doubt Shanny would do that now after saying this core will win for the past half decade.

They did... but it really didn't result in them getting far enough forward, and so far this year their results have been disappointing too.

 

[4thline]

We were a match for Boston in 2019 and 2018. If we are not a match 5 years later, it would show just how bad a GM Dubas was and how good Sweeney is.

Leafs were a 111 point team that went farther then the Bruins in the playoffs in the last year Dubas was the GM.

Fact is that we're still in 11th despite an offseason where the best moves were an 800k depth signing that turned into an intriguing young bottom pair defenseman, a 3rd string goalie that gave us a hot stretch, and a PTO depth signing playing like a PTO depth signing.

The expectation was to be better this year.

 

[ZEBROA]

At 11.5M he has to put up 100+ pt for the first half of his deal

Generating and looking decent are worthless now

Hes going to be on the Matthews/Marner/Tavares payscale so expectations will be similar to them

100+pt Just like Tavares and Marner ? He is not going into that payscale because the payscale will change with every year. Marner will get more and Matthews as he should allready got way more. In leaf land Nylander is payed to be a ppg guy. In NHL a 100+ player. Should be the same, aint the same. And started with Tavares.

 

[ToneDog]

Except the regression is this year only... last year was the best results this group has had, in any measurable way.

Some of it is no fault of anyone, just time... Tavares, Brodie, Giordano have all declined at a very rapid rate. Tavares I'm not ready to count out, his play is still strong, he's just not getting results... which often does trend back to a norm... unless that little bit of a lost step has killed him, which we'll know over a longer time period.

Some of this is just Tre's mistakes. We had a solid defensive team, even if the depth scoring wasn't there. Now our team D has suffered, and we are actually worse at depth scoring. His signings, except Benoit have largely been disappointing, though I don't have an issue with Domi's production for his dollars. (Though Domi only has 2 points in the last 12 games).

I don't dislike Keefe, but there is a lack of sharpness to this team, that perhaps a new coaching voice can change... or maybe the players aren't coachable, or aren't winners. I think that coaching change should be made now.

It might also be time for a complete purge in the front office... Shanahan down... it's been a decade and it's not working. That's enough time. Some fresh eyes are needed, to determine which of the core just doesn't have it to compete and win. That's the important thing, finding solutions, not necessarily which GM is to blame..

Agreed but losing to Florida in 5 is telling. Let's not forget what Dubas added at the TDL by dealing futures. Without those moves, Vasi leaking goals and injuries to their D, Tampa wins that series IMO.

 

[1specter]

They did... but it really didn't result in them getting far enough forward, and so far this year their results have been disappointing too.

Just to be clear you're talking about Toronto here right? Lol

 

[Bones45]

Just look at their roster and where they are at in the standings, they are a garbage team that got lucky tonight

Guess Isles got lucky every game against the Leafs this year.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

Leafs were a 111 point team that went farther then the Bruins in the playoffs in the last year Dubas was the GM.

That is we're still in 11th despite an offseason where the best moves were an 800k depth signing that turned into an intriguing young bottom pair defenseman, a 3rd string goalie that gave us a hot stretch, and a PTO depth signing playing like a PTO depth signing.

The expectation was to be better this year.

Dubas sold the farm to get past the first round

1st + 2nd + 4th for ROR
1st + 2nd for McCabe

He tried to recoup assets with the Sandin trade, but that leaves us with no young dmen on the team

So he gave up 2 1st + 2nd for a #4 dman and 11 playoff games