Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 3-1; lose series

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

the reason keefe et al want them to carry the puck/posession b.s. is because even THEY KNOW they dont have the balls, will and fortitute to retrieve a damn puck from the corner!

 

[NoName]

Absolutely disgraceful for this team with this much prime age talent, loaded with veterans and even with some grit now to fall in 7 to a vastly inferior roster like the Habs. This year was their golden opportunity and they squandered it.


Now as an added irritation we all have to see those vulture threads on the Main Forums throughout the offseason (seem to be a lot of Bruins Fans taking potshots).

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

the marner contract negotiations were brutal; esp. considering he totally disappeared again, afraid to get hit etc. He had a whole year to at least improve his shot and get stronger- he did nothing, a real coward. Most of all his penalties were "shoots puck over glass". lmao. brutal.

 

[Twine Tickler]

I said Lou took the team from being a joke to being respectable. Dubas has taken them back to being a joke.

Simple facts

He did his part. He kickstarted the rebuild and was able to assemble a terrible enough roster to get a generational talent like Auston. But his moves thereafter were extremely questionable. He no doubt would have negotiated better deals for Mitch, Auston, and Willy. But he almost certainly would have spent that money on terrible players like Matt Martin and Patrick Marleau. He deserves credit for part of where this team is. But to suggest he would have been the savior this team needed is so ridiculous. We had to give up draft capital and players to rectify his terrible cap management. Last year was the 1st year KD was even able to GM a team that wasn't dealing with messes that Lou left. way too much is made of the 3 players making 10+ million dollars. Our roster was very deep this year. They didn't perform when push came to shove. But I got news for you, Mitch and Auston would still not have performed if they made 9 million under Lou....Its not cap management that is the problem, its the core players not performing to their abilities at critical times. End of Story

 

[TS Quint]

I don’t pin this on Keefe...I think I’m in the minority, he’s had 1.5 years and let’s be honest here the team has shown noticeable improvement defensively under him

He’s new to the NHL and seems to be willing to learn the lessons these situations present...that being said I didn’t agree with his use of line 1 or his unwillingness to make changes in the playoffs but I want to see if he learns from this before I toss him under any busses...at some point it’s on the players to perform he can’t make them try or fight through tight checking...let’s see what changes next year before we toss him anywhere

WTF are the Leafs doing with a coach learning on the job? Is this Arizona? I put a ton of this loss on Keefe. He is coaching for a team that by talent should have nothing short Stanley Cup aspriations with their talent, not developing a coach who might be able to take them there in a couple years.

Look, Marner was dog crap. To me it wasn't through a lack of effort and I'm not going to extend the same feelings to Mathews who was largely invisable. I just think Marner cracked under the pressure of his contract and wanting to win for the city.

Any coach would want a weapon like Marner. The problem is Keefe doesn't know how to coach him. Keefe seems like he ties an elastic to The trigger and let's the gun spin around on the table hoping it hits something. Unfortunate that he shot himself in the foot. Marner looked like he was trying to take the team on his back and do it all himself. He kept screwing around at the offensive blue line and turning it over rather than passing it off to another team mate or just getting it deep. Where was the coach to tell him to use his team? Where was the team structure for Marner to fall back on?

This is a team game that requires team strategy applied by the coach. Either there was no strategy or Keefe doesn't have Marner's respect to apply it.

A good coach has a firm hand on his weapons and points them in a specific direction. I don't see that from Keefe.

 

[fahad203]

WTF are the Leafs doing with a coach learning on the job? Is this Arizona? I put a ton of this loss on Keefe. He is coaching for a team that by talent should have nothing short Stanley Cup aspriations with their talent, not developing a coach who might be able to take them there in a couple years.

Look, Marner was dog crap. To me it wasn't through a lack of effort and I'm not going to extend the same feelings to Mathews who was largely invisable. I just think Marner cracked under the pressure of his contract and wanting to win for the city.

Any coach would want a weapon like Marner. The problem is Keefe doesn't know how to coach him. Keefe seems like he ties an elastic to The trigger and let's the gun spin around on the table hoping it hits something. Unfortunate that he shot himself in the foot. Marner looked like he was trying to take the team on his back and do it all himself. He kept screwing around at the offensive blue line and turning it over rather than passing it off to another team mate or just getting it deep. Where was the coach to tell him to use his team? Where was the team structure for Marner to fall back on?

This is a team game that requires team strategy applied by the coach. Either there was no strategy or Keefe doesn't have Marner's respect to apply it.

A good coach has a firm hand on his weapons and points them in a specific direction. I don't see that from Keefe.

I totally agree. Keefe had his baptism last year. Last year you could say he didn't know the team, or didn't get a good with no training camp. This year it was all him and his team. Simple as that. Keefe didn't have a handle on this team or this series. Hyman was brutal entire series, that line had no chemistry, that line was being heavily checked and he did nothing. he didn't change things up, he was so predictable

To me this is also on Dubas on coaching. Dubas needed to get Keefe someone senior like Boudreau as an assistant coach. Someone with years of experience. I think Keefe really felt alone in that room in sense that he had no one to run things by

Malhotra is really trash and overrated at anything he ever did

 

[Rokker]

Marner for Jones? Do u mean Seth or his brother. You would have to add big time to get Jones

Add big time to guy who's already said he's leaving?

They had interest in Marner before as well.

Only obstacle would be the cap for Columbus, not the dollars owed in Marner's contract.

 

[Dreakmur]

Believing that may be part of the problem. Plenty of skill on that Montreal team.

It’s not that they have no skill, but it’s nothing close to what Toronto has.

 

[Donnie740]

the reason keefe et al want them to carry the puck/posession b.s. is because even THEY KNOW they dont have the balls, will and fortitute to retrieve a damn puck from the corner!

Why would you build a team with players like that? Total failure by the little kid pretending to be a GM.

 

[Metroid]

Bought a PS5 and it showed up at the door today.. a financial pick me up for these stupid f***ing leafs.

Where did ya find one?!

 

[rumman]

I guess for some imitation is the greatest form of flattery.

The first step in correcting the problem is admitting there’s a problem, self delusion isn’t the answer.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

WTF are the Leafs doing with a coach learning on the job? Is this Arizona? I put a ton of this loss on Keefe. He is coaching for a team that by talent should have nothing short Stanley Cup aspriations with their talent, not developing a coach who might be able to take them there in a couple years.

Look, Marner was dog crap. To me it wasn't through a lack of effort and I'm not going to extend the same feelings to Mathews who was largely invisable. I just think Marner cracked under the pressure of his contract and wanting to win for the city.

Any coach would want a weapon like Marner. The problem is Keefe doesn't know how to coach him. Keefe seems like he ties an elastic to The trigger and let's the gun spin around on the table hoping it hits something. Unfortunate that he shot himself in the foot. Marner looked like he was trying to take the team on his back and do it all himself. He kept screwing around at the offensive blue line and turning it over rather than passing it off to another team mate or just getting it deep. Where was the coach to tell him to use his team? Where was the team structure for Marner to fall back on?

This is a team game that requires team strategy applied by the coach. Either there was no strategy or Keefe doesn't have Marner's respect to apply it.

A good coach has a firm hand on his weapons and points them in a specific direction. I don't see that from Keefe.

Sorry dude I am tired of the coaching carousel that is the NHL...Torts would be tuned out day 5 by these guys and gone by the end of month 2 and everyone here would be baying for his blood for making our little snowflakes uncomfortable

I’m fine with someone new...I’m not impatient, as much as I want cups I think the improvement he showed from half a year to this year were huge and I think it gets better from here

Mind you make no mistake I am absolutely pissed off about the outcome of this series but O don’t do knee jerk reactions for the most part

 

[rumman]

I said Lou took the team from being a joke to being respectable. Dubas has taken them back to being a joke.

Simple facts

Add to this the “Shanaplan” was suppose to be competing for the cup every year, boy 7 years in and that statement isn’t aging well, paging Larry Tannubaum............

 

[Cpt Maple Leaf]

And yet he'll see success you could only dream of

No shit, Sherlock.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I can see in Dubas face he's done with Marner.

Going all in Seth Jones

IMO would be the best possible move for Toronto and will firmly establish them as playoff threat and change their identity. Jones would give the Leafs something they havent had in years; a young do it all defensive stalwart. Toronto should be all in for Jones.

 

[alliuk12]

leaf fans should be use to this by now. they never get any better then this

 

[Stephen]

I think what will be interesting is KD has full trust in Sheldon. Something that he never had with Babcock. So if there is a core problem, Sheldon will know. Sheldon will know if he can win with Mitch and Auston. If he thinks these 2 cannot get it done when push comes to shove, he will address that with KD. I'm not sure the same would have happened if Babs was still in charge. Largely because Babs worked on his own agenda, and completely disregarded anyone else's opinions. The problems will be addressed guys. Deep breaths.

I don’t think Sheldon has the authority of a typical NHL coach. We all laugh about how Dominic Ducharme was Bergevin’s sock puppet but this might also be true of Keefe. Something like the guy who oversees Dubas’ vision and a substitute teacher to let M&M do whatever they want to compile points, play them with super friends like JT97 and then blender everyone else with no game plan.

Did we ever hear from Keefe any kind of understanding as to what Columbus and Montreal do well? It was just taken as a given to show up and “play their game” and win.

 

[BlueAzN]

For people saying Price was a brick wall, that's so not true. We didn't really generate a ton of great chances. We got shut down, not by one man, but by ourselves and how we played. Sure there were one or two big chances but we just don't have the physicality and drive. We need to trade Marner asap.

 

[Cpt Maple Leaf]

But Naz was just another player. I don't get why people think he was all that special haha. He was a 50 pt player that got suspended 2 playoffs in a row due to being unable to control himself. I just don't get the crazy love for the dude from this fanbase is all I guess...

I am not a Naz fan, didnt like it when they drafted him. It is the fire that he has that very few of this lot has. Just watching several minutes of the bruins isles was like night and day compared to this stick checking, fancy dangles group. Come playoffs time, physicality comes into play and we need players that bring it, not damaged goods and aging vets which is a troubling pattern in TO. With the exception of Spezza, who really contributed to the teams success as far as hard nosed, tough leader types, and speZz really doesn’t fit that mold either but at least he dropped the gloves last year. The point was we need some players that will keep you looking over your shoulder.

 

[Havoc]

IMO would be the best possible move for Toronto and will firmly establish them as playoff threat and change their identity. Jones would give the Leafs something they havent had in years; a young do it all defensive stalwart. Toronto should be all in for Jones.

Dubas has always wanted to fix the D too. Whenever an opportunity presents itself he goes for it. So I have faith this trade is on his radar.

Muzzin was a hit trade. Brodie is honestly a god send. So glad we have him next year.

If Jones is available and can be extended, I'm convinced Marner is finished here. The whole dynamic of the game changes if you have Jones on your team. A guy like Eichel will not have the same impact. It's time to go the more boring route and bring in the elite d-man over the elite forward.

 

[Twine Tickler]

i'm not opposed to cleaning house by firing shanahan and dubas. i definitely think a major change needs to happen. either with the core or management change. this management group has already pissed away 5 years of matthews, marner and nylander's contract/careers by icing horrible teams. i don't trust them enough to right the ship. at least not anymore.

personally, i would like to hire Jeff Gorton as Dubas' replacement.

This team was far from horrible. They underperformed. I for one trust the guy who assembled a very very good and deep team to make the necessary adjustments to move on from the players that are consistently underperforming in the big moments. But to say this team that was assembled this year was terrible is completely irrational. There was a reason why we were overwhelming favorites to win the north. Because of the roster construction that was largely approved by the hockey world.

The funny thing is, the people who think KD is the problem largely are on the side of "Lou would have been the better GM"....can someone explain the rationale behind how Auston, Mitch and Willy would have shown up more in the big game under Lou vs. Under KD?? I am really struggling with that one. They wouldn't be any better in the clutch making 9 Million vs 11 million. The core 3 players no show when it counts. Most specifically Auston and Mitch. Was Dubas supposed to trade one of these guys before this year??? would Lou have traded either one of them??? ask yourself these questions before putting your hurt feelings into words

 

[egd27]

We had to give up draft capital and players to rectify his terrible cap management. Last year was the 1st year KD was even able to GM a team that wasn't dealing with messes that Lou left.

What messes? Without $11M to JT (not a necessity to a young rebuilding team) and $11m to Marner (instead of a market price of maybe $9 and that's a big maybe) there is absolutely no mess.

Dubas created the mess by not remaining patient for another season, and his "fans" lay the blame at the feet of Lou over the Marleau / Zaitsev contracts.

Kid Kyle saw his chance at Tavares and put his need for adoration by the fans and media ahead of the long term good of the franchise. Now he's shopping the clearance racks for anyone from the GTA that wants another payday to play for the Leafs.

 

[ITM]

He did his part. He kickstarted the rebuild and was able to assemble a terrible enough roster to get a generational talent like Auston. But his moves thereafter were extremely questionable. He no doubt would have negotiated better deals for Mitch, Auston, and Willy. But he almost certainly would have spent that money on terrible players like Matt Martin and Patrick Marleau. He deserves credit for part of where this team is. But to suggest he would have been the savior this team needed is so ridiculous. We had to give up draft capital and players to rectify his terrible cap management. Last year was the 1st year KD was even able to GM a team that wasn't dealing with messes that Lou left. way too much is made of the 3 players making 10+ million dollars. Our roster was very deep this year. They didn't perform when push came to shove. But I got news for you, Mitch and Auston would still not have performed if they made 9 million under Lou....Its not cap management that is the problem, its the core players not performing to their abilities at critical times. End of Story

Precisely.

 

[Twine Tickler]

I don’t think Sheldon has the authority of a typical NHL coach. We all laugh about how Dominic Ducharme was Bergevin’s sock puppet but this might also be true of Keefe. Something like the guy who oversees Dubas’ vision and a substitute teacher to let M&M do whatever they want to compile points, play them with super friends like JT97 and then blender everyone else with no game plan.

Did we ever hear from Keefe any kind of understanding as to what Columbus and Montreal do well? It was just taken as a given to show up and “play their game” and win.

this team played extremely strong structurally for 5 of the 7 games. Got beat by poor showings in games 6 & 7. Usually when you are the better team 5 times in a 7 game series you win. I am not fully defending everything Sheldon has done, but every bit of the critique needs to be on the players themselves. They have been afforded the luxury of a cop out far too many times before. This one is completely on them. Kyle put together a great team, and Sheldon prepared this team to win games exactly like how MTL played. The players are 100% to blame. They need to be held accountable for the first time ever. No one other than Manny Malhotra needs to go in the coaching staff and management. I'm tired of these core players being bailed out by having everyone around them relieved of their duties for them not doing their part.

 

[mydnyte]

What messes? Without $11M to JT (not a necessity to a young rebuilding team) and $11m to Marner (instead of a market price of maybe $9 and that's a big maybe) there is absolutely no mess.

Dubas created the mess by not remaining patient for another season, and his "fans" lay the blame at the feet of Lou over the Marleau / Zaitsev contracts.

Kid Kyle saw his chance at Tavares and put his need for adoration by the fans and media ahead of the long term good of the franchise. Now he's shopping the clearance racks for anyone from the GTA that wants another payday to play for the Leafs.

oh please, with JT, we sweep the series.
the Marleau / Zaitsev contracts are 100% only Lou's fault, as they were Lou's deals.
what would remaining patient have changed from Perry's knee to Tavares's head?