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Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 3-1; lose series

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SeaOfBlue said:
The team added an entirely new core which had next to nothing to do with Lou. You could throw me in there as GM and we'd have that kind of progression.

The team was very mentally weak. They lost key games and made the same mistakes with greater frequency but Lou had the guise of "the core is still growing and learning" on his side. Plus we were coming off of a decade of mediocrity or downright awfulness, so the standards were much lower. There is no guarantee that things would have progressed any further under him... You are just assuming that would be the case. Other than seeing the natural progression of Matthews/Marner/Nylander and other prospects (and adding a very mentally weak Andersen), he did practically nothing to improve our team. Then he saddled us with contracts that needed to be dumped once our stars were no longer on ELC's.

I won't discuss Dubas because this argument doesn't really need to involve him at all. Lou can suck independently of any suckage that surrounds Dubas. That being said, I think this article explains exactly why Lou's management style does not work anymore and should not be heralded as a "solid top down organizational structure".
Not that I'm a huge fan of Lou but come on...the proof is in the pudding.

Council Post: Why Authoritarian Leadership Simply Doesn't Work Anymore
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SeaOfBlue said:
The team added an entirely new core which had next to nothing to do with Lou. You could throw me in there as GM and we'd have that kind of progression.

The team was very mentally weak. They lost key games and made the same mistakes with greater frequency but Lou had the guise of "the core is still growing and learning" on his side. Plus we were coming off of a decade of mediocrity or downright awfulness, so the standards were much lower. There is no guarantee that things would have progressed any further under him... You are just assuming that would be the case. Other than seeing the natural progression of Matthews/Marner/Nylander and other prospects (and adding a very mentally weak Andersen), he did practically nothing to improve our team. Then he saddled us with contracts that needed to be dumped once our stars were no longer on ELC's.

I won't discuss Dubas because this argument doesn't really need to involve him at all. Lou can suck independently of any suckage that surrounds Dubas. That being said, I think this article explains exactly why Lou's management style does not work anymore and should not be heralded as a "solid top down organizational structure".

Council Post: Why Authoritarian Leadership Simply Doesn't Work Anymore
Click to expand...
Not that I'm a big fan of Lou but come on man, the proof is in the pudding no?
 
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myleafs said:
Not that I'm a huge fan of Lou but come on...the proof is in the pudding.
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Do you think Lou moves on from Marner/Matthews? Nylander?

The Isles are built in a very specific way on a very different framework than the Leafs. I don't see a situation where he unloads Matthews or Marner, even Nylander is a big stretch IMO. Trying to think back to him ever moving an impact player like those two in his NJ/NYI tenure.

He wasn't building the Islanders here, he was trying to build the Lightning/Blackhawks.
 
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Boxscore said:
Of course I did, they were my favorite Leafs team of all-time. But, compared to some of the other teams with superior talent, they overachieved due to their incredible leadership, grit, work ethic and intangibles.



I agree with you 100%. That's why that team was so beloved -- they had everything you want, even though their only "superstar" on paper was Dougie Gilmour. Clark, Andreychuk and Gartner weren't considered "superstars" and Potvin was overlooked compared to titans such as Roy, Belfour and Richter. On defense, we were rock solid, but didn't have one elite blue liner such as a Bourque, Chelios, Coffey, Leetch, MacInnis, Stevens, etc.



Yes, and it's sad. That said, I don't think there's a team in the NHL these days who are built like our 92-93 team -- the league has just changed so much. Even the Bruins, Avs or Bolts don't have the type of grit, fire and intensity that team had.
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Agree to disagree with the bolded part.
 
93LEAFS said:
He only got 2 shots and never as the favorite. He really didn't deserve to go. But, Shanahan panicked about losing the boy wonder, who has led us to 3 straight 1st round exists (if you can even call the Columbus loss a first round exit).
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"but but hes good with advanced stats" To hell with advanced stats. Hes also great at getting his ass whooped at the negotiation table.
Can only imagine contract negotiations with Dubas

Dubas " We'd like to offer Mr. Tavares we'll give you 7 years 9 million per"
Tavares client "oh well San Jose offered X amount over X years. John really wants to come here but if you cant come close to that well... have a good day"
Dubas "Oh, uh uh oh God, Ok we'll match it"
Tavares client underbreath "What a sucker"

No way does Lou or any other GM offer any of those guys what they got.
 
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Lightsol said:
Uh, the fact that before this whole "Lou is leaving Toronto" discussion even happened, the Islanders hired his son and there were whispers that Lou wanted out of his contract so he could go work with his son?
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you're going to believe "whispers" no actual sources
 
After a day to digest:

- Turned the game off as soon as Gallagher scored, the outcome was so obvious.
- I'm surprisingly not upset at all. I'm apathetic. Never felt like this even once after a Leafs exit. Something's different this time.
- Keefe needs to go for: A) Not taking control of the powerplay from Malhotra 2 months ago, B) Pigheadedly playing Thornton in roles he's completely unsuited for, C) Not adjusting to get Matthews away from Daneault, D) Assuming he's the reason our heavy body pickups weren't using their heavy bodies, that too.
- Ship Marner out, period. Get whatever you can for him.
- Obviously fire Malhotra assuming it was still him responsible for that PP.
- I fully expect to find out Matthews' wrist was still a major problem.

That is all, don't care beyond that. They can descend into the Earth at this point and I won't care.

Have fun.
 
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egd27 said:
Yea, that's what I said. :shakehead

It's ok, I see you're dug in on the "there were no other options for poor Kyle" philosophy, so may as well move on.
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No there were definitely other options. I am not insinuating that there wasn't. But there is absolutely no denying the roster that was assembled for the post season was more than capable of winning it all. They fail under the spotlight of the Toronto pressure. There is no doubt in my mind that IF Mitch and Auston were to be moved to another market that I would expect them to thrive as the superstars that they are. They are not perennial losers. I don't believe that to be true for any professional athlete. I think the pressure is too much for them if I'm being honest. At this point they should of accidently won at least 1 of these meaningful games by now. It's not even that they play average in these games, they play their absolute worst in the games that matter. Very hard to do anything when your star players no show.

I'm not sure how you can blame the GM for 2 superstars going MIA when it counts. This is the players fault. They would go MIA in this market with any management group or any coach.
 
Lumberg said:
Was there even a big hit thrown last night? Anything to spark the team!?
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The lack of intensity, hitting and urgency other than the 2nd game was head scratching and a total lunchbag letdown. I honestly thought that the whole team would step up and play with some fire. Every other series in these playoffs has been high level intensity and battles/scrums etc while most of the leafs games I kept thinking this looks like a preseason game. How does that even happen. Boys against men.
 
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The most important thing to do, is fire the entire coaching staff. Everything about their game was pathetic , and the biggest mistake was giving the job to the Maple leafs head coaching position, to a guy who never coached in the NHL. Same for the GM, rookie anything in management, has bitten us so hard in the past, its stupid to continue doing it
 
Twine Tickler said:
you're right. I agree the price was steep. But we have the prospect depth to make that deal work. And oddly enough, no one would have held those people to their words had the Leafs made a long cup run. Yet, the second failure occurs these same people resurface with their "told ya so" opinions as if they didn't think this roster was fit enough to win the north. All I'm saying is, KD is not afforded the luxury of hind site. He can't be inactive or less aggressive at the deadline, because inactivity on a 1st place team would imply that he doesn't want to go all in. If he is inactive and we fail in the same capacity, people would not look at this loss and blame the core for underperforming, they'd look at KD's inability to add at the deadline as being the reason we failed. He is in a lose lose scenario with a large portion of this misinformed fanbase. We have a lot of heavy contracts no doubt. All of which KD signed. But are we failing to remember that we have Sandin, Lilly, Robby, and Rodian coming up on ELC???? the first 3 of which will 95% be on the active roster next year. Lets remove hurt feelings for 1 second and understand that as a team we are still very much in a good position. Largely because of KD and the scouting staff. Our window was not just this year. We most likely will move a core piece, my guess is Rielly. I know the fanbase craves a Marner Blockbuster, but those deals just don't happen unless you are the EDM Oilers w/ Taylor Hall and to a lesser degree Eberle. Not too sure if either of those deals worked out for them. People need to take a deep breath and realize that this is hardly the end of the world. This Leafs loss is tough no question, but we will be OK.
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Sorry, not to be "that"guy...I enjoy your posts but paragraphs would make it a lot easier to read.
 
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coming in peace, honestly I don't think you need to blow it up, you outplayed the habs for the most part. You hit Price in godmode, it happens in round one for him often... I'd personally add grit and a good goalie to your core. Some seemed to play with some fear in their game and be shy of contact, trying to avoid it, not a good recipe for playoffs. The way you played, I think short Price, you'd have beaten the Habs to be dispatched by the Jets. Follow Tampa leads, they showed you the recipe, you already have the hardest parts to get.
 
myleafs said:
The lack of intensity, hitting and urgency other than the 2nd game was head scratching and a total lunchbag letdown. I honestly thought that the whole team would step up and play with some fire. Every other series in these playoffs has been high level intensity and battles/scrums etc while most of the leafs games I kept thinking this looks like a preseason game. How does that even happen. Boys against men.
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Chiarot is the reason JT was injured, and nobody did squat... he punished our forwards the entire series and no push back on him at all.

we need that type of defender on the team that can play in the top 4
 
HereInTheNord said:
coming in peace, honestly I don't think you need to blow it up, you outplayed the habs for the most part. You hit Price in godmode, it happens in round one for him often... I'd personally add grit and a good goalie to your core. Some seemed to play with some fear in their game and be shy of contact, trying to avoid it, not a good recipe for playoffs. The way you played, I think short Price, you'd have beaten the Habs to be dispatched by the Jets. Follow Tampa leads, they showed you the recipe, you already have the hardest parts to get.
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to be honest, i dont think Price stole any game but the first... he was solid, and we were sloppy or tried to be too pretty (which has been a common occurrence with this team) they should have just pounded shots from everywhere any time they saw the net.
the fear aspect is sadly true though, too many spin offs and stop short players.
 
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