Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 3-1; lose series

[AcerComputer]

coming in peace, honestly I don't think you need to blow it up, you outplayed the habs for the most part. You hit Price in godmode, it happens in round one for him often... I'd personally add grit and a good goalie to your core. Some seemed to play with some fear in their game and be shy of contact, trying to avoid it, not a good recipe for playoffs. The way you played, I think short Price, you'd have beaten the Habs to be dispatched by the Jets. Follow Tampa leads, they showed you the recipe, you already have the hardest parts to get.

I thought Campbell played well in the series. Yes, he let in a softie in game 7, but we need to score more than 1 goal. Rest of the team is gutless.

 

[myleafs]

i didnt see that in many of the other series, i mean a few Leafs players were bulldogged to the ground with no calls, and then there are pathetic stick check fouls called.
many other series were called like regular season games, which is how every game should be called, all season, and all playoff.

I'm sick and tired of the 2 sets of rules, and then, only called depending on the score, or which ref has a bias.

With no push back either. Watching a still not right Hyman get crosschecked to the ice and have the player stand over him while all leaf players look the other way was disheartening but that is what this leafs team has done for a few years now. Other top teams do not do this, they stand up for each other, they go to war for each other.

 

[Azail]

As soon as Naz left the team lost heir identity. The team hasn't been the same since.

That's an aggressive take. Lost their identity of losing in the first round?
People really need to get over a tweener 2nd line center wow.

 

[ruaware41]

Hey guys I want to share a funny story.

You can believe me or you can not. But it made the Leafs loss a lot more bearable for me and I swear to God this was me.

I work for a ‘big 4’ accounting firm with offices all across the world and Canada. We had a call today about “iNdUsTrY 4.0” and how our firm is leading the technological charge. So ofc the day started with no one coast to coast being able to hear a single word and the video not working either. However the comments were working. This lasted for about 45 minutes and I left this comment which was my biggest accomplishment ever at the firm since starting a year ago. Unfortunately I left it as anon instead of with my name attached to it and I’m really regretting it now seeing how much this blew up across our firm.

 

[BigGulpsEh]

No there were definitely other options. I am not insinuating that there wasn't. But there is absolutely no denying the roster that was assembled for the post season was more than capable of winning it all. They fail under the spotlight of the Toronto pressure. There is no doubt in my mind that IF Mitch and Auston were to be moved to another market that I would expect them to thrive as the superstars that they are. They are not perennial losers. I don't believe that to be true for any professional athlete. I think the pressure is too much for them if I'm being honest. At this point they should of accidently won at least 1 of these meaningful games by now. It's not even that they play average in these games, they play their absolute worst in the games that matter. Very hard to do anything when your star players no show.

I'm not sure how you can blame the GM for 2 superstars going MIA when it counts. This is the players fault. They would go MIA in this market with any management group or any coach.

For one he decides to pay them ridiculous contracts (esp marner) before even proving they can win a damn thing. Marner is a playoff choke and matthews is trending that way as well

that has a major affect on how the roster is contructed after that.

Matthews and marner are to blame for their no shows but dubas owns this as well

 

[Jarqui]

That was a really tough loss to take.
It is a terrible disappointment - one of the worst.
I expected more.
But I'm not completely doom and gloom over it.

There's never a guarantee in a series. That's why they play the games.

In all my decades of watching hockey, a goalie can be a great equalizer. Price deserves some credit. He hadn't been in that form all season. He was a difference maker.

With the injuries during the season to Price, Weber, Gallagher, Chiarot, Armia, etc. that roster was better than their regular season record reflected.

Tavares injury was also a key difference maker to me because it pushed the Leafs to being more of a one line offence team. Nylander did his thing but they could focus on Matthews and Marner which they couldn't have done as effectively if Tavares played in that series.

The failure to correct the Leafs power play was also a key difference maker and inexcusable with the talent they have to work with. In introduced Sandin to help the PP which broke up a pretty good top 6 D and cost the team defensively.

The coaching adjustment the Habs made to sit back and counter in game 7 seemed to catch Keefe off guard and he couldn't/didn't adjust. That was a difference maker in game 7.

I thought Jack played well enough to win the series.
I thought the collection of top 6 D was one of the most consistent we'd had in years. They gave up less than 2 goals per game ignoring empty netter. The team GAA for the 1st round+ is second behind Colorado.

The team GFA was 2.57 => 11th among the 16 teams - well below where it arguably should have been with the offensive talent they had. Price, Tavares injury and the poor PP (coaching) (13% - 14th) combined for that.

Without signing Anderson, it's fixable for another run.

 

[AcerComputer]

The identity of losing in the first round? No, I think that's still there.

The intensity, the identity, the will to make a big hit, make a big play, do what it takes to win was clearly different when they had Kadri in the lineup vs when he was out. Granted he got himself suspended, but when he was in the lineup the team looked and felt different.

 

[Suntouchable13]

We need a GM that is not attached to anyone on this core and coach. Someone who won't be afraid to ship out ANYONE. I am afraid Dubas will just continue to double, triple, quadruple down on this core. Shanny also has no balls, quite frankly or the salaries of our "stars" would have been way down.

 

[AcerComputer]

That's an aggressive take. Lost their identity of losing in the first round?
People really need to get over a tweener 2nd line center wow.

Maybe it wasn't Kadri, but after he left the team did not have the same feel to it. I rather have Kadri toeing the line and getting suspended, than the gutless punks we have here with no heart.

 

[Suntouchable13]

That was a really tough loss to take.
It is a terrible disappointment - one of the worst.
I expected more.
But I'm not completely doom and gloom over it.

There's never a guarantee in a series. That's why they play the games.

In all my decades of watching hockey, a goalie can be a great equalizer. Price deserves some credit. He hadn't been in that form all season. He was a difference maker.

With the injuries during the season to Price, Weber, Gallagher, Chiarot, Armia, etc. that roster was better than their regular season record reflected.

Tavares injury was also a key difference maker to me because it pushed the Leafs to being more of a one line offence team. Nylander did his thing but they could focus on Matthews and Marner which they couldn't have done as effectively if Tavares played in that series.

The failure to correct the Leafs power play was also a key difference maker and inexcusable with the talent they have to work with. In introduced Sandin to help the PP which broke up a pretty good top 6 D and cost the team defensively.

The coaching adjustment the Habs made to sit back and counter in game 7 seemed to catch Keefe off guard and he couldn't/didn't adjust. That was a difference maker in game 7.

I thought Jack played well enough to win the series.
I thought the collection of top 6 D was one of the most consistent we'd had in years. They gave up less than 2 goals per game ignoring empty netter. The team GAA for the 1st round+ is second behind Colorado.

The team GFA was 2.57 => 11th among the 16 teams - well below where it arguably should have been with the offensive talent they had. Price, Tavares injury and the poor PP (coaching) (13% - 14th) combined for that.

Without signing Anderson, it's fixable for another run.

It's not. With this core we are not going by Tampa or Boston. We just differ in opinion, that's all. When Tampa can win without Stamkos, then losing JT is not an excuse to lose the Habs. They also did nothing with him in 2019 and 2020. I love how people mention Price as if other teams don't have good goalies. He was just good, he did not steal this series. They will have to learn to beat good goalies if they want to go anywhere anytime soon.

 

[Cobra777]

Well, hopefully itll get us somewhere in a few years. Fact is, Dubas assembled a team that SHOULD have won a few rounds. We were confident going into the playoffs and knew this was our best chance yet to win the cup. Players CHOKED. Do not let them (especially Marner and Matthews) off the hook!!!

Agree. I don't care what people will say but 40 million in 4 players is what will hurt this team for yrs. if it is not seriously addressed because you can't balance the rest of the team properly due to cap space especially when your top earning players have proven nothing in playoff hockey to catapult this team to that next level.

Secondly I'll bet anything that this team is pretty much run by Mathews and Marner and that everyone including Dubas and Keefe bends to their wishes.

Babcock had to fly to Arizona to kiss his ass one off season which Dubas probably had a hand in that

Bet it was AM and Marner along with Dubas who are responsible for Bab departure

Bet AM and Marner had lots to do with Keefe not separating them even though it was not working

Keefe is coach because he is a Dubas yes man, and Dubas is an AM and Marner imput yes man

I also bet this core especially Marner won't be going anywhere because of AM

I have no proof of all this but a strong gut feeling, these two are good players but individual goals, assists, points
and stats, Rocket trophies seems to be a satisfactory point with these two.

Too many post game interviews, "obviously" this "obviously" that they don't come off to me as genuine
Too many times Marners stick handling at the offense blue line losing pucks that end up in the back of our net, doesn't learn from those mistakes, keeps doing them and never gets benched, Keefe benched Sandin and lower tier guys for mistakes but not Marners brutal give aways.

Babs demoted Marner I remember to 4th line for a spell and I'll bet that was frowned upon

Lou also demands accountability and hard play, he is old school and that is also why he is not here

A guy Like Torts would straighten out this kindergarten class in a big hurry but someone like that will never be brought in because he would put Duby, AM, Marner, or whoever else that does not give effort in their rightful place need I say more. The stars on this team are coddled they answer to no one.

 

[Gabriel426]

That's an aggressive take. Lost their identity of losing in the first round?
People really need to get over a tweener 2nd line center wow.

I think thats the year when Leafs also traded away Brown in the summer.
I would not say Leafs lost its identity but definitely two guys who battles

 

[Crozbar]

coming in peace, honestly I don't think you need to blow it up, you outplayed the habs for the most part. You hit Price in godmode, it happens in round one for him often... I'd personally add grit and a good goalie to your core. Some seemed to play with some fear in their game and be shy of contact, trying to avoid it, not a good recipe for playoffs. The way you played, I think short Price, you'd have beaten the Habs to be dispatched by the Jets. Follow Tampa leads, they showed you the recipe, you already have the hardest parts to get.

I have to disagree. I have seen Price in Godmode where the Habs are getting shelled 40-50 shots and he is facing quality chances and they still win. This was not like that. Price made some really good saves and looked pretty solid, but he let in some softies also.

The Leafs were simply looked like anaemia cases out there for long stretches when the Habs looked them same. When they did finally step it up.. the Habs stepped it up more defense wise.. I think it's more than fair to say the team had multiple issues.

 

[myleafs]

Do you think Lou moves on from Marner/Matthews? Nylander?

The Isles are built in a very specific way on a very different framework than the Leafs. I don't see a situation where he unloads Matthews or Marner, even Nylander is a big stretch IMO. Trying to think back to him ever moving an impact player like those two in his NJ/NYI tenure.

He wasn't building the Islanders here, he was trying to build the Lightning/Blackhawks.

I was replying to the quote that Lou's management style does not work anymore which the last I looked seems to be working, unless I'm missing something?

 

[Rickkins]

It’s not that they have no skill, but it’s nothing close to what Toronto has.

I respectfully submit that battling back from a 3 games to 1 deficit to win the series strongly suggests otherwise.

 

[Cobra777]

Sorry dude I am tired of the coaching carousel that is the NHL...Torts would be tuned out day 5 by these guys and gone by the end of month 2 and everyone here would be baying for his blood for making our little snowflakes uncomfortable

I’m fine with someone new...I’m not impatient, as much as I want cups I think the improvement he showed from half a year to this year were huge and I think it gets better from here

Mind you make no mistake I am absolutely pissed off about the outcome of this series but O don’t do knee jerk reactions for the most part

The part where you said Torts would be tuned out by these guys in 5 days tells the story right there, they do not want to answer to accountability and right now they currently answer to no one because there seems to be no one with authority to light a fire under their asses without backlash of being dismissed. You can't have the inmates run the asylum or this is what you get.

Try that with our bosses and see what happens, right now this core is in boys club mode with the mindset that reg season points and stats are satisfactory enough for their contracts.

I stated in another post that it sure looks like and points that AM and Marner have to much influence on coach and GM

Also this team is held hostage by 4 big contracts that have proven nothing when it matters to this date.

As a fan I only give Dubas some credit that there are always lots of additions which is part of the game that is exciting again as a hockey fan, I won't deny that weather I'm right or wrong

It was the big contracts that in my opinion he got bent over too much.

Kadri had a couple 30 goal season at 2nd line center and Stud D men to bolster the blue line should have been sought after before the Tavares 11 mill again imho.

 

[CourtneyDagger50]

Well, y'all. It's been real.
And I will continue Leafs content even though the series is over.

This f***ing team.

 

[Jarqui]

It's not. With this core we are not going by Tampa or Boston. We just differ in opinion, that's all. When Tampa can win without Stamkos, then losing JT is not an excuse to lose the Habs. They also did nothing with him in 2019 and 2020. I love how people mention Price as if other teams don't have good goalies. He was just good, he did not steal this series. They will have to learn to beat good goalies if they want to go anywhere anytime soon.

Do you mean the same Tampa Bay team that Stamkos contributes a goal and an assist to when it got swept by Columbus in 2019 ... the year before it won a Cup?
That Tampa Bay team? Most of the key guys that won in 2020 were on that 2019 team. How come Tampa Bay never threw up their hands and concluded their core stunk in 2019?

A number have felt Price was the Habs MVP for round one.
He handily won the Molson Cup for the series
Game 1 1st star
Game 3 2nd Star
Game 6 1st Star
Game 7 1st Star
1st star in 3 out of their 4 victories.

Marner, who we are criticizing rightfully, scored as many or more points than every Hab except Toffoli. The Habs defense didn't contribute much led by Perry with 1 assist and a -3 and Weber, pointless and -1 was decent defensively but not mindblowing.

Price did not just provide good goaltending. He delivered the best performance of all the players who laced up their skates in this series pretty handily. He's a very big reason why they won. Sure most playoff teams have decent goalies. But not all playoff goalies can make that claim after a series facing a team about 150 win % pts better.

I thought Jack played pretty well. Switch goalies and the Leafs probably would have clobbered the Habs. No way the Habs would win if Price played as well for the other side.

Price's cause was helped by the 2nd line being weakened without Tavares. If talent and health don't matter, we wouldn't have much to discuss around here. You could ice a team of slugs. A lot of winning GMs cite luck with health as one of the reasons they prevailed.

 

[Cobra777]

what constitutes a bad contract???

In my opinion a bad contract is one that cannot be moved (ie. Zach Parise) or one that can be moved but at a cost.

Under Lou we had to give up value to get rid of 2 bad contracts of his.

should we get rid of Mitch's "bad contract" we will be getting equal value in return...why you ask??? well its because Mitch is a great player still.

pay the good ones, don't pay the marginal ones. that simple

Fully agree to move Marner but somehow I think AM has too much influence on this

 

[Suntouchable13]

Do you mean the same Tampa Bay team that Stamkos contributes a goal and an assist to when it got swept by Columbus in 2019 ... the year before it won a Cup?
That Tampa Bay team? Most of the key guys that won in 2020 were on that 2019 team. How come Tampa Bay never threw up their hands and concluded their core stunk in 2019?

A number have felt Price was the Habs MVP for round one.
He handily won the Molson Cup for the series
Game 1 1st star
Game 3 2nd Star
Game 6 1st Star
Game 7 1st Star
1st star in 3 out of their 4 victories.

Marner, who we are criticizing rightfully, scored as many or more points than every Hab except Toffoli. The Habs defense didn't contribute much led by Perry with 1 assist and a -3 and Weber, pointless and -1 was decent defensively but not mindblowing.

Price did not just provide good goaltending. He delivered the best performance of all the players who laced up their skates in this series pretty handily. He's a very big reason why they won. Sure most playoff teams have decent goalies. But hot all playoff goalies can make that claim after a series facing a team about 150 win % pts better.

I thought Jack played pretty well. Switch goalies and the Leafs probably would have clobbered the Habs. No way the Habs would win if Price played as well for the other side.

Price's cause was helped by the 2nd line being weakened without Tavares. If talent and health don't matter, we wouldn't have much to discuss around here. You could ice a team of slugs. A lot of winning GMs cite luck with health as one of the reasons they prevailed.

They did not break up the core because they had a cup run in 2015, and they made the ECF a couple of times. Their core already had some good runs, 2019 for them was an anomaly not the norm. Not even close to comparable to the Leafs situation. What was the excuse last season in the bubble where they faced a couple of rookies in goal and not Price? Price did not steal anything. They had him down 3-1 and let him and the Habs off the hook.

 

[Dreakmur]

I respectfully submit that battling back from a 3 games to 1 deficit to win the series strongly suggests otherwise.

The whole skill vs. will debate. Leafs had much more skill, and the Habs had much more will.

 

[ACC1224]

The whole skill vs. will debate. Leafs had much more skill, and the Habs had much more will.

It shouldn’t be skill vs will but skill & will. That’s the problem.

 

[Dreakmur]

It shouldn’t be skill vs will but skill & will. That’s the problem.

Every cup champion is led by a core that has skill and will.

 

[Rickkins]

The whole skill vs. will debate. Leafs had much more skill, and the Habs had much more will.

Again I point out that the results do not bear that statement out. If Toronto really had so much more skill it would be Montreal heading to the links in the morning....

 

[rumman]

Agree. I don't care what people will say but 40 million in 4 players is what will hurt this team for yrs. if it is not seriously addressed because you can't balance the rest of the team properly due to cap space especially when your top earning players have proven nothing in playoff hockey to catapult this team to that next level.

Secondly I'll bet anything that this team is pretty much run by Mathews and Marner and that everyone including Dubas and Keefe bends to their wishes.

Babcock had to fly to Arizona to kiss his ass one off season which Dubas probably had a hand in that

Bet it was AM and Marner along with Dubas who are responsible for Bab departure

Bet AM and Marner had lots to do with Keefe not separating them even though it was not working

Keefe is coach because he is a Dubas yes man, and Dubas is an AM and Marner imput yes man

I also bet this core especially Marner won't be going anywhere because of AM

I have no proof of all this but a strong gut feeling, these two are good players but individual goals, assists, points
and stats, Rocket trophies seems to be a satisfactory point with these two.

Too many post game interviews, "obviously" this "obviously" that they don't come off to me as genuine
Too many times Marners stick handling at the offense blue line losing pucks that end up in the back of our net, doesn't learn from those mistakes, keeps doing them and never gets benched, Keefe benched Sandin and lower tier guys for mistakes but not Marners brutal give aways.

Babs demoted Marner I remember to 4th line for a spell and I'll bet that was frowned upon

Lou also demands accountability and hard play, he is old school and that is also why he is not here

A guy Like Torts would straighten out this kindergarten class in a big hurry but someone like that will never be brought in because he would put Duby, AM, Marner, or whoever else that does not give effort in their rightful place need I say more. The stars on this team are coddled they answer to no one.

I think for assessment is spot on.