Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 3-1; lose series

[ShaneFalco]

Was there even a big hit thrown last night? Anything to spark the team!?

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I want to know how we can blame Frederik Andersen for this loss too. You know, our goalie that carried us for several regular seasons and was the sole reason we could not win a playoff series according to this board. Please help explain how its his fault guys.

Blaming Andy was solely done because he was an easy fix not chosen by Dubas and because people didn't want to open the Pandora box of the core being playoff chokers

 

[ShaneFalco]

Watching the Avs makes me realize how far the Leafs have to go

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

I had a gut feeling this would happen, so I ended up betting on Montreal for last night's game. Got a nice chunk of change back thanks to these chokers.

f*** you marner. i hope you and your stupid contract get traded.

 

[egd27]

Hall (and Reilly for that matter) has been successful in Boston because he was put into a great situation on a team that has winners. Hall would have been a no-show here playing with a bunch of gutless players who failed to show up for 3 close out games this year 1 last year, 2 in 2019 and 1 in 2018.

7 chances to win a round and 7 losses in 4 seasons.....that's beyond disgraceful.

 

[Subway Schenn]

I had a gut feeling this would happen, so I ended up betting on Montreal for last night's game. Got a nice chunk of change back thanks to these chokers.

f*** you marner. i hope you and your stupid contract get traded.

Ha. I was thinking of doing the same after looking at the odds. p***yed out in the end, not sure why, guess I still expected them to show up for Game 7....

 

[mydnyte]

I was watching that Boston and Islanders game last night and was thinking this is what playoff hockey is supposed to be.

Intense, back and forth, full of heart ... this and the Columbus series was opposite of that. We now have a big sample size of this team in the playoffs and its not good. Serious, serious problems with the players / how they play.

Dubas/Shanny are in a black hole right now and not sure if there is a plan to get out other than trading major pieces. You cant go into next season with the same core, heck, I dont think Shanny/Dubas want to. I'd be super pissed.

yea, but does Boston screw with the top line and pair Pasternak - Bergeron - Kuraly because they want a grinder on the top line, no, they have Marchand and go full out. grinders play on grinder lines. skill plays with skill.
its an easy recipe and hard to screw up, but, looks like we dont even know the recipe even though we've seen it non-stop

 

[hoglund]

Well it looks like I was lucky that I was on nights last night and missed a bad game. This is much worse than the collapse in 2013 because in 2013 they were supposed to lose and Boston should've been ashamed that the Leafs took them to seven. Losing to Montreal after a 3-1 series lead was bad not only because they had a huge lead, but also because Montreal sucks and barely qualified to make the playoffs. They have Price and a bunch of nobodies. At least in 1985 when the Blue Jays blew a 3-1 series lead it was to a good team that went on to win the world series.

 

[Trapper]

The quitting spirit leaks into the fan base I see

I guess for some imitation is the greatest form of flattery.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

The funny thing is, the people belly aching today about these deals are the same people who would have called for his head if there was no activity at the deadline. These were strategic risks, based on facts and analytics that suggested this team was going be be in for a long Stanley Cup run. The players acquired were depth moves, and were not acquired to get out of the first round. The players on the roster prior to the deadline was more than enough to get by any team in the north. Unfortunately we were let down by those very players. Spending money at the top is only problematic if you cannot round out the remaining roster. Given the fact that we saw Muzzin, JT, Foligno out at points in the series and we still were able to ice a far superior NHL roster than our opponent would suggest cap management was not the issue. Not to mention we had very good production down the lineup and the fact that we couldn't get Galchenyuk or Dermott into the series until an injury occurred. I can understand how people are hurt by this, but this series falls on the players. Mitch and Auston especially. Fairly or not, these 2 don't get paid 11 million dollars to be checkmated by Phillip Danault. It's an unfortunate outcome to lose a 7 game series when you are the better team in 5 of the 7 games, but that's life. This just goes to show how thin the margin of error in the playoffs. Something that this core should not have had to learn AGAIN from.

Changes will be had. I am not sure who will be gone, and there is a realistic possibility that Mitch and Auston are both back next year. All I know is that I'd be listening to offers on any and all of our players. But fair market value if not a premium will need to be tabled to acquire either one of them. Both players are NHL superstars, lets not forget this. Excited to see how Kyle works this team in the offseason. I've got confidence in him

Many right away said the Foligno trade was an overpayment especially considering the leafs have yet to make it out of the 1st round. Rather save the picks until we can prove we can get out of the 1st round. If the addition of Foligno was needed to get the leafs past the Habs the core is f***ed anyways

 

[Twine Tickler]

Can't find a gm spot? I'll take him in Edmonton in a new York minute. It's not his fault marner went invisible.

the fanbase you see posting in a series loss +1 day is the emotional joke of our fanbase. They want heads to roll, and the dork with the glasses is the low hanging fruit. Anyone who has watched this team for the last 30 years knows that he assembled a more than capable group to get the job done. They think that Lou, the guy who gave Marleau a 3 year deal, the guy who gave Nakita Zaitszev a 7 year deal would be the guy to bring this group to the promise land lol. f***ing morons to be honest. We have more NHL talent in our press box than half of the NHL has on the ice and people are complaining about cap management? yes he overpaid the big boys, but where else is that money going to go? should we take the canucks approach and sign beagle and roussel to 4 year 3 million dollar deals? Spezza produced at a ridiculous level at league minimum. Our bottom 6 was not the reason we lost to MTL Period. We lost because of Mitch and Auston playing average. When they are supposed to be anything but.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

7 chances to win a round and 7 losses in 4 seasons.....that's beyond disgraceful.

Especially considering the last 2 were against 2 of the worst teams on paper to make the playoffs.

 

[egd27]

his contract is only 3 years though and will mostly like get a raise? And no one could have predicted a flat cap due to a global god damn pandemic.

Yes, it's called a "bridge contract" it's what experienced GM's use to effectively manage the cap when necessary.
If Kid Kyle had signed Marner for 3 at a similar number, do you think he'd be getting a raise to $11M after next season based on what he has shown so far?
Dubas is in over his head.

 

[Trapper]

Was there even a big hit thrown last night? Anything to spark the team!?

Yeah they hit the exit button to the off-season: Hard!

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Completely dominated again in a game that matters .. sure Price was good but so was Holtby, Rask and Korpisalo it is a repeating pattern where we get outgoalied .. injuries hurt sure but that is what occurs in playoff hockey no different than last year.. coaching was inflexible yes that is another repeating pattern .. Mitch is trying his best but lacks required 10% extra speed and strength required of playoff hockey yes but also a known issue .. Matty gets coverage against/doubled all night yes again a known issue .. and we lose to inferior teams because our best players play down to competition yes again repeating issue .. that we play perimeter possession hockey yes we do and again it is a known systematic issue for turnovers which are exemplified in playoffs which requires a much more simple game which we don't have .. that Rielly is fast but lacks brains/hands to make precise plays that a top offensive dman should make yes again a repeating pattern .. bringing in an over da hill HOF playoff underachiever like Jumbo (see Paddy) never works .. so many issues folks here but all repeating patterns over 5 years of 1st round exits

Again if nothing changes at top and with core it is very obvious da same sh*t will occur next year too .. but not sure we will even make playoffs next year folks .. Florida, Tampa and Boston are significantly better teams .. Montreal and Ottawa are improving squads . . it will be a huge battle to get a wildcard i think

If we remove Shanny/Dubie which I suspect is likely in coming days then it will take a couple years to REJIG this team by trading Mitch and Rielly to start to create CAP room and build a regular NHL squad which can compete in playoffs

Tough choices ahead for Larry but he knows da above facts .. such a bad state for our Leafs to be in really .. like I stated never send a boy to do a man's job .. and never rely on anything you hear from legal beagle Bettman as he only views us here in TO as his piggy bank

 

[Twine Tickler]

Many right away said the Foligno trade was an overpayment especially considering the leafs have yet to make it out of the 1st round. Rather save the picks until we can prove we can get out of the 1st round. If the addition of Foligno was needed to get the leafs past the Habs the core is f***ed anyways

you're right. I agree the price was steep. But we have the prospect depth to make that deal work. And oddly enough, no one would have held those people to their words had the Leafs made a long cup run. Yet, the second failure occurs these same people resurface with their "told ya so" opinions as if they didn't think this roster was fit enough to win the north. All I'm saying is, KD is not afforded the luxury of hind site. He can't be inactive or less aggressive at the deadline, because inactivity on a 1st place team would imply that he doesn't want to go all in. If he is inactive and we fail in the same capacity, people would not look at this loss and blame the core for underperforming, they'd look at KD's inability to add at the deadline as being the reason we failed. He is in a lose lose scenario with a large portion of this misinformed fanbase. We have a lot of heavy contracts no doubt. All of which KD signed. But are we failing to remember that we have Sandin, Lilly, Robby, and Rodian coming up on ELC???? the first 3 of which will 95% be on the active roster next year. Lets remove hurt feelings for 1 second and understand that as a team we are still very much in a good position. Largely because of KD and the scouting staff. Our window was not just this year. We most likely will move a core piece, my guess is Rielly. I know the fanbase craves a Marner Blockbuster, but those deals just don't happen unless you are the EDM Oilers w/ Taylor Hall and to a lesser degree Eberle. Not too sure if either of those deals worked out for them. People need to take a deep breath and realize that this is hardly the end of the world. This Leafs loss is tough no question, but we will be OK.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

you're right. I agree the price was steep. But we have the prospect depth to make that deal work. And oddly enough, no one would have held those people to their words had the Leafs made a long cup run. Yet, the second failure occurs these same people resurface with their "told ya so" opinions as if they didn't think this roster was fit enough to win the north. All I'm saying is, KD is not afforded the luxury of hind site. He can't be inactive or less aggressive at the deadline, because inactivity on a 1st place team would imply that he doesn't want to go all in. If he is inactive and we fail in the same capacity, people would not look at this loss and blame the core for underperforming, they'd look at KD's inability to add at the deadline as being the reason we failed. He is in a lose lose scenario with a large portion of this misinformed fanbase. We have a lot of heavy contracts no doubt. All of which KD signed. But are we failing to remember that we have Sandin, Lilly, Robby, and Rodian coming up on ELC???? the first 3 of which will 95% be on the active roster next year. Lets remove hurt feelings for 1 second and understand that as a team we are still very much in a good position. Largely because of KD and the scouting staff. Our window was not just this year. We most likely will move a core piece, my guess is Rielly. I know the fanbase craves a Marner Blockbuster, but those deals just don't happen unless you are the EDM Oilers w/ Taylor Hall and to a lesser degree Eberle. Not too sure if either of those deals worked out for them. People need to take a deep breath and realize that this is hardly the end of the world. This Leafs loss is tough no question, but we will be OK.

I get that and Dubas probably would have been bashed by some people if he didn't add anyone this year. Foligno had a pretty shit regular season and was basically going to marginally upgrade the top 6 for a dozen game or upgrade the 3rd line significantly. Doesn't scream 1st round pick+ to me and I was against it from the get go.

On paper the team is in a good position but you could say that the last few years yet the core has fallen flat on their face every playoff run. Now your going to bring in guys like Sandin, lily and Amirov in a culture of losers. Throwing Sandin in like that probably already hurt his confidence.

The leafs without Rielly will be horrible next year if they don't get another 1st pairing defender...

I think your being a little too optimistic. If this was a one off thing, it would be bad as we lost a 3-1 lead to the worst team in the playoffs. However this isnt a one off thing, it is a trend and that trend is very worrying. That is why everyone is freaking out because of how good on paper the team is but how awful they play in the playoffs

 

[hoglund]

7 chances to win a round and 7 losses in 4 seasons.....that's beyond disgraceful.

Technically it's only 6 because last year against Columbus wasn't a round because it wasn't even the playoffs, but I get your point.

 

[Shak19]

The team is not good on paper... we have lost a lot of depth with likes of Kapanen, Johnsson. We have no secondary scoring on the bottom 6. There is lack of toughness both physical and mentally.

We are handcuffed with some big ticket contracts and unable to have an adequate supporting cast. Washed up vets like Thornton, Simmonds will not do. I want to see the player development come through, young players who are hungry to compete enter those bottom 6 roles, and add a few veterans who can still play (such as Spezza). Thornton and Simmonds were known as damaged goods with no gas left in the tank.

 

[yort2010]

There is a large gap between being hard/fair and a tyrant. I think Lou falls into the hard but fair territory like Torts does. Brady left and the team was in caphell and needed to replace a player at the most important position (with a ton of opt-outs) and didn't even become a bottom 10 team in the league. If you are chalking up Belichick's success to Brady, I'd say you are mis-reading New Englands 20 years of dominance.

You need someone who can guide them to accountability from the top of the organization down. Lou hired Trotz, so doesn't he get credit for that? There is a large gap between being a tyrant and trying to be buddy/buddy with everyone. And, the past 3 years we have underachieved dramatically. We just lost as heavy favorites and the year prior couldn't make the final 16. We scored one goal in the past to lose and you are out games.

Lou had the respect of the team. I think that much is clear. Now, Babcock lost it by playing mind-games, but Lou doesn't seem like the mind-game type. He sets firm policies and standards that people are expected to live up to, and the only person I've heard complain about it is Bourn and people who were close to Dubas. Dubas's being friendly and close to the players hasn't accomplished anything more than Lou did with a younger team.

Also, tons of successful organizations work their employees to death with unattainable standards. The top talent will still go to those places (look at top law firms, hedge funds or investment banks).

You think having a policy of no facial hair, no long hair and not letting players pick their own number isn't a tyrant but hard and fair? yikes....

 

[Tlo1]

Paul Marner partly screwed this core. Au Revoir.

What a prick

 

[Just Rude]

Was there even a big hit thrown last night? Anything to spark the team!?

That was the most alarming thing to me. They had a chance to change the narrative, to get rid of that choker label. I fully expected them to come out absolutely flying last night, like Montreal in Game 6. To find another gear.

f***ing nothing.

 

[Twine Tickler]

I get that and Dubas probably would have been bashed by some people if he didn't add anyone this year. Foligno had a pretty shit regular season and was basically going to marginally upgrade the top 6 for a dozen game or upgrade the 3rd line significantly. Doesn't scream 1st round pick+ to me and I was against it from the get go.

On paper the team is in a good position but you could say that the last few years yet the core has fallen flat on their face every playoff run. Now your going to bring in guys like Sandin, lily and Amirov in a culture of losers. Throwing Sandin in like that probably already hurt his confidence.

The leafs without Rielly will be horrible next year if they don't get another 1st pairing defender...

I think your being a little too optimistic. If this was a one off thing, it would be bad as we lost a 3-1 lead to the worst team in the playoffs. However this isnt a one off thing, it is a trend and that trend is very worrying. That is why everyone is freaking out because of how good on paper the team is but how awful they play in the playoffs

trust me man, I recognize the need to change plans. If you've read any of my previous post's I am open to any and all moves. As far as I'm concerned there are no untouchables on this roster. But I am not interested in dumping Marner for nothing. These shoot from the hip decisions are what put the Oilers with Dominic Kahun playing on a line with Draisatl vs. Hall. If the right deal presented itself I'd certainly be open to it. Some dumb motherf***ers on here put together a poll suggesting we give Marner away to Seattle for cap relief lol. Like that's the level of irrationality that this board is famous for. Kyle Dubas has never shown loyalty to the moves he made. He may be the only GM I know that demonstrates zero ego in his decision making. Signs Andreas Johnsson to a bad deal, moves him. Trades Kadri for Barrie, lets Barrie walk. Point being, when something is clearly not working out, despite it being his move, he is not afraid to condridict his initial move to better the team. He will exercise this same philosophy with our core. I think we all agree, this core has proven they cannot rise to the occasion when the chips are in the middle. If there is a fair market value deal to be had for any of our core players, I suspect he will make that move.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

trust me man, I recognize the need to change plans. If you've read any of my previous post's I am open to any and all moves. As far as I'm concerned there are no untouchables on this roster. But I am not interested in dumping Marner for nothing. These shoot from the hip decisions are what put the Oilers with Dominic Kahun playing with Draisatl vs. Hall. If the right deal presented itself I'd certainly be open to it. Some dumb motherf***ers on here put together a poll suggesting we give Marner away to Seattle for cap relief lol. Like that's the level of irrationality that this board is famous for. Kyle Dubas has never shown loyalty to the moves he made. He may be the only GM I know that demonstrates zero ego in his decision making. Signs Andreas Johnsson to a bad deal, moves him. Trades Kadri for Barrie, lets Barrie walk. Point being, when something is clearly not working out, despite it being his move, he is not afraid to condridict his initial move to better the team. He will exercise this same philosophy with our core. I think we all agree, this core has proven they cannot rise to the occasion when the chips are in the middle. If there is a fair market value deal to be had for any of our core players, I suspect he will make that move.

The problem is Dubas also seems to be a man of his word and he promised not to move any of the big 3 (plus JT) while he was GM. We will see very shortly if his word is more important than his success. I agree trading Marner for nothing would be madness. Needed to see how Marner did without Matthews that playoffs as both played really poorly and that is on Keefe for not splitting them up once. Honestly I think Keefe needs to go, worse than Babcock for favoritism. Thorton shouldn't have seen the 4th line let alone #1PP time. It is a joke.

The other issue is guys like Marner likely will not return market value due to the contract Dubas gave out so if you move him your not wining the trade. Nylander is the most obvious candidate in that he would likely get the best return however then you have traded your best playoff performer from the previous year. The leafs are not in a great spot to blow up the core without taking significant asset losses

 

[Dakota Sioux]

That was the most alarming thing to me. They had a chance to change the narrative, to get rid of that choker label. I fully expected them to come out absolutely flying last night, like Montreal in Game 6. To find another gear.

f***ing nothing.

I was watching both games last night as best I could and the Bruins/Islanders game felt like a game 7. The Leafs/Habs game felt like a regular season game until the last 10 minutes when the Leafs finally played with sone desperation