Eklund Rumor: Leafs in on Cam Fowler

[Macallan18]

Gardiner and Marincin would get eaten alive playing against the qoc fowler faces

Lol no. Wouldn't trade Gardiner for Fowler straight up, and Marincin is fine as a third paring defenceman.
But my point isn't to argue merits of our LHD, my point was our real need is a good RHD for Reilly.

 

[Raspewtin]

Gardiner and Marincin would get eaten alive playing against the qoc fowler faces

Fowler gets eaten alive by the qoc Fowler faces.

 

[Machinehead]

Which brings me to my next point: No one has yet explained how a team can have a top pairing of scrubs, and still manage to be one of the better teams in the NHL.

It's happened before

 

[dracom]

Fowler gets eaten alive by the qoc Fowler faces.

Yet the Ducks are still one of the best teams the past few years when he faces those players...weird

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Fowler gets eaten alive by the qoc Fowler faces.

Doubt it would happen with a competent partner at his side.

 

[Machinehead]

Doubt it would happen with a competent partner at his side.

He's been a negative possession player with every single one of his 14 most common partners over six seasons. How many chances are we giving him?

 

[Sojourn]

It's happened before

Really? McDonagh is a scrub now?

Really grasping at straws here, aren't you?

 

[Machinehead]

Yet the Ducks are still one of the best teams the past few years when he faces those players...weird

So were the Rangers in 2014-15 with a top pairing of McDonagh, ravaged with injuries and having the worst year of his career, and a tumor...weird.

 

[dracom]

He's been a negative possession player with every single one of his 14 most common partners over six seasons. How many chances are we giving him?

Until he actually plays with a player that is at least a top 4 guy. Look at Despres last season, they were great together when we first got him. Then Despres got hurt and hasn't been the same since.

 

[Machinehead]

Really? McDonagh is a scrub now?

Really grasping at straws here, aren't you?

Whether or not McDonagh is, we would need to see him away from the human spaceship anchor to find out.

But the fact remains, McDonagh and Girardi have been THE worst pair in the NHL the last two years.

 

[dracom]

So were the Rangers in 2014-15 with a top pairing of McDonagh, ravaged with injuries and having the worst year of his career, and a tumor...weird.

So McDonagh sucks like Fowler? Good to know.

Also one good season from the Rangers isn't really the same as multiple good seasons the Ducks have had with Fowler playing on the top pairing.

 

[Machinehead]

So McDonagh sucks like Fowler? Good to know.

Also one good season from the Rangers isn't really the same as multiple good seasons the Ducks have had with Fowler playing on the top pairing.

It's not one good season. The Rangers have played a million playoff games since the lockout. More than anyone except LA and Chicago the last few years.

They did it with Tanner Glass on their top pairing.

 

[Sojourn]

Whether or not McDonagh is, we would need to see him away from the human spaceship anchor to find out.

But the fact remains, McDonagh and Girardi have been THE worst pair in the NHL the last two years.

You may need to refresh yourself on the definition of a fact. That's your opinion.

And you just proved my point. If McDonagh isn't a scrub, the situation isn't the same, is it? You haven't hesitated to call Fowler some crappy defenseman. In fact, you went so far as to say McIlrath was better than him at one point. That any defenseman would be better than Fowler. So, here the Ducks have this horrible defenseman in Fowler, in a top pairing role, and they have him paired up with a 3rd pairing defenseman like Bieksa, or Mara, and they are still a good team. Hmmmmmm...

It seems to me that you're letting these metrics make your determinations for you. That's probably not the smartest approach, especially in a game like hockey. What are you going to do when a new statistical formula comes out? Are you going to let that lead you around like a dog chasing a toy? Not even going to question it? Just take the easy approach, and let the statistic make all the decisions?

 

[Machinehead]

You may need to refresh yourself on the definition of a fact. That's your opinion.

And you just proved my point. If McDonagh isn't a scrub, the situation isn't the same, is it? You haven't hesitated to call Fowler some crappy defenseman. In fact, you went so far as to say McIlrath was better than him at one point. That any defenseman would be better than Fowler. So, here the Ducks have this horrible defenseman in Fowler, in a top pairing role, and they have him paired up with a 3rd pairing defenseman like Bieksa, or Mara, and they are still a good team. Hmmmmmm...

It seems to me that you're letting these metrics make your determinations for you. That's probably not the smartest approach, especially in a game like hockey.

Teams that let metrics make determinations for them win Stanley Cups while the Ducks continue to fall short in the playoffs.

The Kings, the Blackhawks, and the Penguins are analytics teams. It wins Cups. It is the smartest approach.

 

[Sojourn]

Teams that let metrics make determinations for them win Stanley Cups while the Ducks continue to fall short in the playoffs.

The Kings, the Blackhawks, and the Penguins are analytics teams. It wins Cups. It is the smartest approach.

Those teams use far more advanced analytics than you have access to, likely to the point of actually noting possession(instead of assuming it), and I'm pretty sure they don't just blindly let them dictate what they do, and decide. That's the smartest approach.

What you're doing is... not.

 

[Machinehead]

Those teams use far more advanced analytics than you have access to, likely to the point of actually noting possession(instead of assuming it), and I'm pretty sure they don't just blindly let them dictate what they do, and decide. That's the smartest approach.

What you're doing is... not.

I just love this tinfoil hat theory that the teams just have better analytics that we haven't even seen yet. And better yet, strange new analytics that make all the bad players good!

Why would they need something different when corsi already predicts playoff results with startling accuracy?

 

[Sojourn]

I just love this tinfoil hat theory that the teams just have better analytics that we haven't even seen yet. And better yet, strange new analytics that make all the bad players good!

Why would they need something different when corsi already predicts playoff results with startling accuracy?

That's a good question, Machinehead. Maybe you should think on that. Why are teams investing money into analytics if they are so readily available?

And then ask yourself if, they are investing this money into more advanced methods, why in the world would they release that information into the public realm where other teams can take advantage of it? Are you in the habit of giving up an advantage to your opponents?

 

[dracom]

It's not one good season. The Rangers have played a million playoff games since the lockout. More than anyone except LA and Chicago the last few years.

They did it with Tanner Glass on their top pairing.

Haha, now you sound like a child with those exaggerations.

Also, isn't Tanner Glass a forward? Maybe you should watch hockey instead of looking at numbers.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

He's been a negative possession player with every single one of his 14 most common partners over six seasons. How many chances are we giving him?

How negative? With whom? In what role? For how long? Why are we under the assumption that being a negative possession player is automatically making someone a bad player?

 

[Machinehead]

That's a good question, Machinehead. Maybe you should think on that. Why are teams investing money into analytics if they are so readily available?

And then ask yourself if, they are investing this money into more advanced methods, why in the world would they release that information into the public realm where other teams can take advantage of it? Are you in the habit of giving up an advantage to your opponents?

There's so many absolute ****ing buffoons still employed in the NHL like Patrick Roy, John Tortorella, and Alain Vigneualt, that I have to believe a lot of teams aren't even there with traditional corsi yet, let alone something more advanced.

If there is something more advanced, it's likely to gain the edge between two players who already post similar traditional analytics. That I would believe.

The idea that it's radically different, and shows GM's and coaches that players who traditional corsi says are awful, are actually really good; that's a conspiracy theory.

There's no metric that's going to indicate that Fowler is a good player. Regardless of what you think of him as a player, he sucks statistically. That's just a fact.

The Ducks are not sitting here with analytics of the future which say Fowler is amazing. They either know the numbers and are ignoring them, or they're not even aware.

Fun fact: the Ducks don't have an analytics department, so where did they get these amazing numbers of the future?

 

[TopShelfWaterBottle]

I like your assessment of JVR. I am a fan of his and the team.

I only dislike your evaluation of East vs. West. The East is the fastest, most skilled, smartest, and toughest conference. Please stop with this. The very best from the West got their ***** handed to them in the cup finals. Tampa, Wash., NYI, etc. could have all beaten those teal lumbersexuals too.

Lol eat a snickers

 

[Machinehead]

Haha, now you sound like a child with those exaggerations.

Also, isn't Tanner Glass a forward? Maybe you should watch hockey instead of looking at numbers.

Girardi is basically Tanner Glass in terms of statistics and skillset and plays on the Rangers top pairing. That's what I mean about some of the decisions these teams make that are supposed to be gospel.

 

[dracom]

I like your assessment of JVR. I am a fan of his and the team.

I only dislike your evaluation of East vs. West. The East is the fastest, most skilled, smartest, and toughest conference. Please stop with this. The very best from the West got their ***** handed to them in the cup finals. Tampa, Wash., NYI, etc. could have all beaten those teal lumbersexuals too.

Which is why the East won their first cup since 2011....Yeah, the East is the best conference in every way

 

[Incetardis]

All bickering aside, Fowler is a decent 2nd pairing LH puck mover and we already have one in Gardiner and with Reilly on the 1st pairing and likely Marincin on the 3rd moving forward why would we trade assets for a guy who doesn't fit a need. Top 4 RHD or bust and that's that

 

[Sojourn]

There so many absolute ****ing buffoons still employed in the NHL like Patrick Roy, John Tortorella, and Alain Vigneualt, that I have to believe a lot of teams aren't even there with traditional corsi yet, let alone something more advanced.

If there is something more advanced, it's likely to gain the edge between two players who already post similar traditional analytics. That I would believe.

The idea that it's radically different, and shows GM's and coaches that players who traditional corsi says are awful, are actually really good. That's a conspiracy theory.

There's no metric that's going to indicate that Fowler is a good player. Regardless of what you think of him as a player, he sucks statistically. That's just a fact.

The Ducks are not sitting here with analytics of the future which say Fowler is amazing. They either know the numbers and are ignoring them, or they're not even aware.

Fun fact: the Ducks don't have an analytics department, so where did they get these amazing numbers of the future?

So that's really your counter argument?

The NHL is full of idiots, and you know better because Corsi is amazing?

And you're the one trying to tell us about our own player? Not really helping your point there, man. I have to say, as arguments go, that's one of the poorer ones I've seen. That's about as close to blind faith as you can probably get.