Paul4587
Registered User
- Jan 26, 2006
- 31,231
- 13,287
Yeah a "harder time" doesn't mean last on the team.
It's black and white. The numbers without context are always right. There are no exceptions to this.
Is that how it works?
Eklund Rumor: Leafs in on Cam Fowler
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It's black and white. The numbers without context are always right. There are no exceptions to this.
Is that how it works?
Pretty sure 53% Dzone starts isn't a big number. I remember the Sedins were at like 80% OZ% the year Henrik won MVP. That's a big zone push.
Decent point about Lindholm making the other D look worse by having sweet possession numbers. I'd be curious how much of an effect that would have. Don't think it's that big either but I could be wrong.
Also...
If Fowler is playing all the tough mins and Lindholm the easier top 4 mins... wouldn't that mean that Lindholm's are inflated? By playing with better partners, better zone starts.
My suspicion is Lindholm is just that good and Fowler is okay but not great. From what I've gathered we have the opposite situation in Winnipeg with Trouba getting the toughs and PK with Stuart and Myers getting Enstrom and the PP time.
Decent point about Lindholm making the other D look worse by having sweet possession numbers. I'd be curious how much of an effect that would have. Don't think it's that big either but I could be wrong.
Also...
If Fowler is playing all the tough mins and Lindholm the easier top 4 mins... wouldn't that mean that Lindholm's are inflated? By playing with better partners, better zone starts.
My suspicion is Lindholm is just that good and Fowler is okay but not great. From what I've gathered we have the opposite situation in Winnipeg with Trouba getting the toughs and PK with Stuart and Myers getting Enstrom and the PP time.
Sojourn
Registered User
- Nov 1, 2006
- 50,523
- 9,377
I fully expect Lindholm's shot metrics to drop when Fowler is moved. Given that Fowler's role benefits Lindholm just as much as it does Vatanen, those situations Boudreau loved to put Fowler in are going to need to be accounted for. The role would likely be different under Carlyle anyway, but I'm certain his numbers are going to drop.
And that doesn't actually mean that Lindholm will be a worse player. It's just a product of the way he will need to be used, vs. the way he was used this past season.
KaseMeOutside
Based
- Oct 18, 2011
- 44,320
- 10,281
If Lindholm steps into Fowler's role and starts seeing 53% of his draws in the dzone, it stands to reason his corsi and fenwick stats are going to dip
Skinnyjimmy08
WorldTraveler
- Mar 30, 2012
- 23,040
- 12,984
that is not a good set of dmen. Sure Rielly is unreal and Gardiner is getting better, but after, its major question marks. Hopefully Zaitsev works out well in the NHL but for now, hes a question mark.
Stephen Gionta
Boston College > Boston University
I think the Leafs and Ducks are PERFECT trading partners.
Fowler + ?
for
JVR + ?
However, as a Devils fan, I hope Shero can get Fowler from Anaheim.
2017 1st rounder + Blandisi
Fowler + ?
for
JVR + ?
However, as a Devils fan, I hope Shero can get Fowler from Anaheim.
2017 1st rounder + Blandisi
Liferleafer
TSN Scrum Lurker
- Feb 9, 2011
- 39,848
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While i may agree, you still don't trade your 1LW (of which you have no replacement) for another of something you already have (PMD).
If it's possible to land Fowler without moving JVR...then sure, if not...i pass.
How much better do you think Fowler's stats will get with their roles reversed, and how much wold Lindholm's stats suffer?
My guess is 1-2%. Not enough to make Fowler a good top pair D or enough to make Lindholm anything but a 22 year old #1.
I will definitely give Ducks fans that he is not as bad as some people have let on. Just don't think he's a guy worth paying the price of a top pair D for.
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Machinehead
HFNYR MVP
So by some Rangers fans logic, Manson, Bieksa, and Stoner are better players than Fowler because fancy stats says so.
Stoner and Bieksa, meh.
I would trade a lot for Manson.
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
Probably. There is no way Lindholm's CF% is going to drop by 9%, (1st to 21st). Usage really isn't an excuse unless you are a defensive forward who is getting absolutely shafted with defensive zone starts. There's only 6 defensemen playing at anytime, so their zone starts are rarely that extreme. Fowler's usage is not abnormal at all.
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Macallan18
Registered User
- Aug 10, 2015
- 10,684
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Worser and worser. Kadri just signed a long term deal, and they are going to move him right away???? Zero chance.
Zegs2sendhelp
Registered User
- Jul 25, 2012
- 44,251
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JVR isn't a guy that would bring home a top pairing dmen... he might get a decent #2 at best
Makar Goes Fast
grocery stick
lol common, only rielly is debatably better than fowler but the rest aren't even close.
Kelly
Registered User
- Nov 12, 2012
- 14,912
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Macallan18
Registered User
- Aug 10, 2015
- 10,684
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This is Eklund. He knows how to drum up interest in the low season. That's all this really is.
Nobody is saying Fowler isn't a quality Dman, but he doesn't fit the Leafs. He's a LD. He's a puck mover, with little physical play. He's in the mold of Reilly and Gardiner. Both of whom are top 4 LD. I'm sure the Leafs don't want any of them playing RD. Fowler's numbers also don't overwhelm. Since the regime change and the new emphasis on analytics, I doubt this isn't another red flag.
Add it all up -- a LD, not physical, poor analytics and a high acquisition price -- says the Leafs won't be that interested. I'm sure they would be if he was on the cheap, but that isn't the case. The Leafs would probably be more interested in a RD who pairs well with either Reilly or Gardiner.
Nobody is saying Fowler isn't a quality Dman, but he doesn't fit the Leafs. He's a LD. He's a puck mover, with little physical play. He's in the mold of Reilly and Gardiner. Both of whom are top 4 LD. I'm sure the Leafs don't want any of them playing RD. Fowler's numbers also don't overwhelm. Since the regime change and the new emphasis on analytics, I doubt this isn't another red flag.
Add it all up -- a LD, not physical, poor analytics and a high acquisition price -- says the Leafs won't be that interested. I'm sure they would be if he was on the cheap, but that isn't the case. The Leafs would probably be more interested in a RD who pairs well with either Reilly or Gardiner.
lindholmie
Registered User
- Feb 22, 2015
- 1,984
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How are polak's advanced Stats? Going to go out on a limb and say they suck, mostly because he sucks. Yet here we are and Polak is back advanced stats are not as high on the priority list as you think or Polak wouldn't be here and Martin probably wouldn't be either.
Makar Goes Fast
grocery stick
the part that said SOME
which would indicate at the very least MORE THAN one and then he said fowler was not better than enough to be worth the upgrade.
try to keep up before trying to sewer me.
I disagree. Zaitsev, Marincin, Carrick and Corrado are young and have a lot of upside, and that's just what the Leafs are looking for.
They aren't well known because they're young and not yet established.
A better informed comment would be "that is not a very well known set of dmen."
Your judgment on how good they are doesn't have much credibility around here.
Kelly
Registered User
- Nov 12, 2012
- 14,912
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No, read that last sentence again. Hint : he actually said "I know Fowler is an upgrade on some"...
I won't speak for him, but I take Rielly over Fowler and he also isn't that much of an upgrade over Gardiner to warrant trading our #1LW for him... do you understand now?
Leafs aren't giving any assets for Fowler who is going to be UFA in two years.
Meaningless thoughts that the Leafs are "in" on Fowler.
Meaningless thoughts that the Leafs are "in" on Fowler.
Skinnyjimmy08
WorldTraveler
- Mar 30, 2012
- 23,040
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I feel it isn't a good set.. it's preference. Just like you prefer to think they aren't well known to fans
But leafs can go with that group right now cause they are a building team.
Kelly
Registered User
- Nov 12, 2012
- 14,912
- 7,513
I would agree.
I've seen Zaitzev play like once, so I can't really comment on him. Carrick has 2nd pairing PP specialist upside, in my opinion, Corrado/Marincin should be no more than bottom pairing D-man if everything goes right for them. Barring one of our D prospects developing into an all star (which we shouldn't be betting on) we will probably need to trade for a top 4 d-man, a RH shot preferably. Like you said, lots of questions marks in that d-core and will be a big reason why we should be bottom five again next year, in my opinion.
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