Eklund Rumor: Leafs in on Cam Fowler

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Zegs2sendhelp

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Calling jvr a 30/30 guy is a bit of a reach , he has literally made that # 1 time and he barley made it... but its okay to call him a Topline 30/30 winger? :laugh:

Fowler has been a #1 on the ducks for 3-5 season give or take but we cant even call him a #2 without taking criticism :laugh:

never change leafs fans.
 

Teeder9

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He's still predominantly on the right side whether that's out of need or not and it's been that way for a while. The point is that no matter how you slice it, Rielly can and likely will go on that side. If the Leafs end up going with what they have, Rielly still has to go on the right side because they have no options at the top of the blue line to fill that spot.



One, Fowler is not my guy. I hope he is dealt from Anaheim because I know he's a good player and it would make it easier for my team against the Ducks.

Two, Polak doesn't fill a need...at all. Physicality is a luxury in the NHL. Puck-movement from the blue line is critical for success and teams with depth of defensemen that can move the puck tend to perform the best. If Polak is in your top four, which at this point he likely is, your team is in trouble.

If both Zaitsev and Carrick are RHD's, it really has no impact on the viability of trading for Fowler who plays the left side. Now setting aside that that argument isn't much to begin with, you can't bank on either of those two making it and performing where they need to for the team to succeed. The biggest reason why you would take Fowler over either of those two is that Fowler is proven and the others are not and considering Fowler is in the same age range, that's a pretty big deal for a team lacking quality blue liners.

Marincin is a decent option on the 3rd pairing if his puck-moving abilities improve but beyond that, he's a dime a dozen player. There really isn't anything special about him but he's useful in a depth position as long as the puck skills get better.

As for not needing Gardiner and Fowler, I would say that's incorrect. There's nothing about either of the two that makes the other redundant. Puck-movement capability is critical from the blue line and the Leafs have nobody proven beyond Rielly and Gardiner and since Rielly can effectively play the right side and likely will continue to play the right side, that opens up their options to grab a d-man on either side to fill out their lineup.

Lastly, it's funny that you want to marginalize a player and a discussion simply because of a difference in opinion and that means you're marginalizing a player that played the most minutes on the team that won the Pacific. It's really pathetic to go that route.



I would...easily. The impact left wingers have on winning isn't that great unless you're a legitimately elite player which JVR is not. The impact that blue liners have is certainly larger and in Fowler's case, he would at worst be 2nd pairing in Toronto and considering what's there for them at this point, it would be a significant swap for them. Fowler would help the Leafs win more than JVR would. That's the bottom line. You need a solid blue line a lot more than you need a winger like JVR who is a solid producer but not much beyond that.

Pretty much. When you have two good dmen, polak and rookies and you have a chance to get a third good dman, you take it. Polak and Carrick are fine if that's what you have, but you don't bank a single thing on either. Marincin either. Fowler fills a need regardless of lh/rh because he's a proven defenseman. I hate the JVR trade threads, because it's always more picks or prospects but this one is good.
 

Duck Off

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A lot of Leafs actually end up underrated because people overcompensate (Kessel, JVR, Gardiner, etc.). JVR is a 30/30 player, he's worth more than Fowler IMO.

No. Top possession teams have still been owning the league for the last 10 years.

Yes.

I see this about JVR all the time. In 7 season, he's hit 30 goals once, and 60 points once. I realize there are other variables here, but 1 our of 7, even with other variables doesn't exactly accurately describe JVR to me. Especially since non Duck fans shove advanced stats down our throat when discussing Fowler. Never mind watching the guy play.

Let me also say that as far as Anaheim fans go, I'm one of JVR's biggest fans. I wanted him last year, and would still like him.

That said, I would not trade Fowler for him, as I think many, including Duck fans, are underselling how important Fowler was/is to us. I personally wouldn't trade Fowler unless we're getting someone like Duchene back (yes I know that's probably not realistic and we'd be adding a lot).

In regards to Fowler for JVR. It doesn't really work for either team. The Leafs need someone like Vatanen, not Fowler, as Fowler blows on the right side. Plus, this doesn't help us shed budget/cap space. Many are forgetting that once Rakell and Lindholm sign, we're going to be way over budget, and we can't even ice enough forwards yet.

I fully expect Fowler to be traded for Tatar + Sheahan in a few weeks. Personally, I don't like this move, but it makes sense for both teams so I do see it happening. I think it will happen after Anaheim clears a bit of salary soon.
 

aufheben

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Oh jeez, fine he's a "28/28" player, is that better? :laugh:

He's an established 1st liner are people really splitting hairs over a couple goals.
 

LEAFANFORLIFE23

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A lot of Leafs actually end up underrated because people overcompensate (Kessel, JVR, Gardiner, etc.). JVR is a 30/30 player, he's worth more than Fowler IMO.

No. Top possession teams have still been owning the league for the last 10 years.

One skater is never the difference between a great team and a poor team.

One skater Isn't the difference? Take JT off the NYI let's see how your theory holds up.
 

Currysux*

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Calling jvr a 30/30 guy is a bit of a reach , he has literally made that # 1 time and he barley made it... but its okay to call him a Topline 30/30 winger? :laugh:

Fowler has been a #1 on the ducks for 3-5 season give or take but we cant even call him a #2 without taking criticism :laugh:

never change leafs fans.

JVR has scored at a 58 point pace as a Toronto Maple Leaf. Does 2 points bug you that much?
 

Kelly

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Calling jvr a 30/30 guy is a bit of a reach , he has literally made that # 1 time and he barley made it... but its okay to call him a Topline 30/30 winger? :laugh:

Fowler has been a #1 on the ducks for 3-5 season give or take but we cant even call him a #2 without taking criticism :laugh:

never change leafs fans.

:shakehead

1st off, there are neutral fans in here also discussing Fowler and his stats, but don't let that get in the way of your Leaf hate.

2nd, I find it hilarious how Duck fans are so quick to bring up possession stats as to why Lindholm is a "much much" better player than Rielly, but when other fans bring them up for a reason why Fowler may be overrated by Duck fans, they dismiss them and call them useless etc.

"Never change Duck fans".
 

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Calling jvr a 30/30 guy is a bit of a reach , he has literally made that # 1 time and he barley made it... but its okay to call him a Topline 30/30 winger? :laugh:

Fowler has been a #1 on the ducks for 3-5 season give or take but we cant even call him a #2 without taking criticism :laugh:

never change leafs fans.
Last year he paced 30/30 thru 40 games. The year prior he was 27-29-56 in a full season - pretty close, the year prior he hit it. The lockout year he had 18-14-32 which again is pretty close to a paced 30/30.
Honestly not that far of stretch and definitely not as egregious as you're making it out to be.

I'm not disagreeing with you about Fowler to be clear.
 

aufheben

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One skater Isn't the difference? Take JT of the NYI let's see how your theory holds up.
They're not even a very good team with him. Premier center for the last like 5 seasons and 1 playoff round win. Two of the best skaters in the world (McDavid, Karlsson) are on bad teams, or at least they were bad last year. The Penguins were still terrible until Crosby had a supporting cast. Same with Tavares. Inverse example would be the Rangers winning 5 playoff rounds and 1 PT in 12 months while using Dan Girardi as their #2 defenseman.
 
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Zegs2sendhelp

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:shakehead

1st off, there are neutral fans in here also discussing Fowler and his stats, but don't let that get in the way of your Leaf hate.

2nd, I find it hilarious how Duck fans are so quick to bring up possession stats as to why Lindholm is a "much much" better player than Rielly, but when other fans bring them up for a reason why Fowler may be overrated by Duck fans, they dismiss them and call them useless etc.

"Never change Duck fans".
There are few if any points/stats that show rielly being better then lindholm in any
Lindholm is a much better player then reilly whats your point :popcorn:
 

Kelly

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There are few if any points/stats that show rielly being better then lindholm in any
Lindholm is a much better player then reilly whats your point :popcorn:

You don't understand my point? I thought it was pretty clear.

These same stats you use to boost Lindholm also show that Fowler is playing way above his head on your first pairing. You guys pick and choose to use these stats only when they fit your narrative/arguments.
 

Zegs2sendhelp

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Last year he paced 30/30 thru 40 games. The year prior he was 27-29-56 in a full season - pretty close, the year prior he hit it. The lockout year he had 18-14-32 which again is pretty close to a paced 30/30.
Honestly not that far of stretch and definitely not as egregious as you're making it out to be.

I'm not disagreeing with you about Fowler to be clear.


I get the on pace, but durability is a factor. JvR is great, specially when you take his contract into considerations... but I don't think hes the type of forward we should target. Me personally id rather just trade fowler for a pick and a higher end forward prospect that is close to or nhl ready. If he never gets 30 goals again in his career is it really acceptable to lable him a 30/30 guy.
 

Zegs2sendhelp

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You don't understand my point? I thought it was pretty clear.

These same stats you use to boost Lindholm also show that Fowler is playing way above his head on your first pairing. You guys pick and choose to use these stats only when they fit your narrative/arguments.

the only stats I brought up were that jvr has only really been a 30/30 guy 1 time in his career.... what does that have to do with lindholms stats or reillys stats?
 

PatriceBergeronFan

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His points-per-game has him at 55-60 points for 4 straight years. That's a first line winger.

Points per game means very little if the sample size of him doing it over 82 games repeatedly doesn't exist.

I think Fowler is worth more.

I think JvR would be a great 2nd liner for a contender.
 

Zegs2sendhelp

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His goals/season average over the last 4 years is 29.2...

I'm guessing you are using on pace for #'s? cause 14 + 27 + 30 doenst average out to 29.2... no way he averages over 25 considering hes been over 25 goals 2times in his career.

Oh read further up, but anyway his on pace #'s don't do much for me because he never actually hits those numbers or plays enough to get to those numbers... which means he lacks durability.
 

TopShelfWaterBottle

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If JVR is a 30/30 guy then fowler is a 40+ pt top pairing dman seeing as he hit 40 Pts once and has been playing on ducks top pair for a couple seasons now. Same exact logic as saying JVR is a 30/30 guy. Can't be hypocritical. I don't know of a single team that wouldn't want a 40+ pt top pairing dman
 

mytduxfan*

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No. Top possession teams have still been owning the league for the last 10 years.

So there are no exceptions to the rule even though ANA, with only the 17th best possession numbers, were Western Conf. Champs, WC finalists and took the eventual SC winners to the game 7? :shakehead

In fact, this passed season was the first year were a top 10 possession team since 08-09 and we had one of the worst starts to a season in our history and struggled significantly 5-on-5 throughout the year, relying heavily on our special team units. However, none of that shows up on the possession stat sheet.

One skater is never the difference between a great team and a poor team.

I know. I never said otherwise. The point is that if the whole Ducks team has had possession stats in the lower half of the league for the passed 4 years (2012-2015), why do you expect Fowler to have amazing possession stats? He plays on a team that had notoriously poor possession stats, but that has still managed to find success (we've been 2 x West Conf. Champs and 4 Divisional Champs whilst having possession stats in the 2nd half). Surely, this just proves that possession stats are the be all and end all and that there are ways for teams to win which don't show up on the stat sheet.
 

Kelly

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the only stats I brought up were that jvr has only really been a 30/30 guy 1 time in his career.... what does that have to do with lindholms stats or reillys stats?

I was speaking about Anaheim fans in general....

I'm guessing you are using on pace for #'s? cause 14 + 27 + 30 doenst average out to 29.2... no way he averages over 25 considering hes been over 25 goals 2times in his career.

Oh read further up, but anyway his on pace #'s don't do much for me because he never actually hits those numbers or plays enough to get to those numbers... which means he lacks durability.

In the four seasons he's played with the Leafs, last year was the only time he ever missed a considerable amount of time. JVR doesn't lack durability it's a myth that's stuck with him since his Philly days that needs to die.

You guys are literally arguing over peanuts, when JVR plays a full season (every season except last) he's proven he can produce 25-30 goals and 55-60 points.
 

aufheben

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In the four seasons he's played with the Leafs, last year was the only time he ever missed a considerable amount of time. JVR doesn't lack durability it's a myth that's stuck with him since his Philly days that needs to die.

You guys are literally arguing over peanuts, when JVR plays a full season (every season except last) he's proven he can produce 25-30 goals and 55-60 points.
Yep.
 

Knies iT

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I'd love to see Fowler in Toronto but not at the expense of JVR. A bonafide, 6'4" 1st line left winger whose good for 30 goals, 60 points is extremely valuable, especially to a team like the Leafs with a ton of inexperience up front and a depleted left side.

The only way 27 Y/O JVR is shipped out is for a right hand version of Fowler, like Trouba, or a player of similar caliber, and most teams/fan bases are opposed to trading that asset for a winger. So unless a team gets desperate or has their arm twisted, the Leafs will most likely hang on to JVR. Acquiring Fowler doesn't address the organizations only glaring hole, and subtracts the team's current best player in the process.
 
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