Eklund Rumor: Leafs in on Cam Fowler

[Liferleafer]

Didn't the Ducks completely destroy the whole notion that good possession stats = good team/player. In 2014-15 we were 17th in the league in terms of possession and yet we were Western Conference champions, went to the WCFs and pushed the eventual SC winners and possession stat kings to game 7.

How did we manage that with Fowler and his turrrrrrrribbbleee possession stats being our #1D? Because the rest of the team was sooooooo good? That doesn't make sense because our teams overall possession stats were also tuuuurrrrribbbbllleeee and yet we still won the WC title made it to the WCFs. Something doesn't add up?

Hopefully the goalie we now have carried you guys that far.....

 

[KapG]

Doesn't Fowler bring a similar skill set as guys like Rielly and Gardiner?

Yes but probably less talented

 

[markog]

Anaheim has a very good team just an owner who doesn't want to spend. Is this team losing money or what is the issue with internal budget? This owner looks worse then Melnyk because this can win now and doesn't want to spend.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

a Fowler/JVR type swap makes sense

 

[Vipers31]

Do you know why the Ducks are so much better when he's off the ice? Because when he's off the ice chances are Lindholm (who has incredible advanced stats) is on the ice. That's obviously going to make his relative stats look bad.

Another reason they are better when he's off the ice - because nearly every time we had a defensive zone face off and the likes of Thornton or Kopitar or Kane Etc was on the ice BB would throw Fowler over the boards to try to get the puck out of the zone. Meanwhile when we have offensive zone faceoffs against bottom 6 players Vatanen would get the nod. Those are hardly favourable situations for Fowler and it didn't help he was playing with a number 6 defensemen the majority of the year.

I'm not a big fan of Fowler, I think Lindholm had clearly surpassed him last season and should have been given some of his minutes (particularly on the PP which is the area all the posters who don't watch Fowler think he's good at) But what I read on the main boards mostly from Rangers fans is absolute crap - that he's a second pair guy and nothing more. You guys are simply reading the hero charts and not applying any context whatsoever.

He's not a number one guy which is how he was used by BB but he is far from the mediocre second pairing guy he's made out to be by the advanced stats crowd. I would say on at least half of last years playoff teams he could have comfortably played as their number two guy.

Well put, and it sums it up well.

 

[The Jesus*]

Can't see Anaheim wanting JVR. He's a worse Bobby Ryan, and they ditched him ages ago. It would probably take Nylander to land Fowler, which Toronto won't do. So don't see it happening. Eklund gonna Eklund.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

a Fowler/JVR type swap makes sense

Totally agree, I think it's the most logical fit for both teams.

 

[Liferleafer]

Totally agree, I think it's the most logical fit for both teams.

I don't agree....Fowler=LH PMD...we have some of those (Rielly/Gardiner etc)...JVR=1LW...we have 1 of those (JVR). Not sure how this makes total sense for TO.

 

[Force951]

Anaheim has a very good team just an owner who doesn't want to spend. Is this team losing money or what is the issue with internal budget? This owner looks worse then Melnyk because this can win now and doesn't want to spend.

Team is losing money with the current level of spending. There is enough revenue to break even just below the half way point between the cap and the floor.

 

[Macallan18]

I don't agree....Fowler=LH PMD...we have some of those (Rielly/Gardiner etc)...JVR=1LW...we have 1 of those (JVR). Not sure how this makes total sense for TO.

Bingo. I think it makes no sense for Toronto. I prefer Rielly and Gardiner over Fowler. We really need to play Rielly on the left, he is not great on the right. What might have made sense was going after Demers, a decent RHD.
Oh well.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I don't agree....Fowler=LH PMD...we have some of those (Rielly/Gardiner etc)...JVR=1LW...we have 1 of those (JVR). Not sure how this makes total sense for TO.

Really doesn't Toronto need more RHD then LHD pretty much like Detroit does. I would tend to think that Lou would be looking elsewhere then just Fowler.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Bingo. I think it makes no sense for Toronto. I prefer Rielly and Gardiner over Fowler. We really need to play Rielly on the left, he is not great on the right. What might have made sense was going after Demers, a decent RHD.
Oh well.

If Rielly is not great on the right then he's just not a great player because that's where he plays most of the time. I really don't agree with that assessment. Toronto can use pretty much any PMD at this point. They need the depth. It doesn't matter which side and they don't need to fall into the Edmonton trap of waiting for homegrown blue line talent to develop when there's no guarantee they even make it.

 

[Liferleafer]

Really doesn't Toronto need more RHD then LHD pretty much like Detroit does. I would tend to think that Lou would be looking elsewhere then just Fowler.

Lou may be looking to upgrade our D, but i doubt he is shopping JVR to do so.

Right now we have Rielly/Gardiner/Zaitsev/Marincin/Polak/Hunwick/Carrick. Now i believe Fowler is an upgrade on some of them, but not enough to warrant trading our 1LW for him.

 

[JetsHomer]

a Fowler/JVR type swap makes sense

Sounds fair. Both players massively overrated by their fan bases

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Lou may be looking to upgrade our D, but i doubt he is shopping JVR to do so.

Right now we have Rielly/Gardiner/Zaitsev/Marincin/Polak/Hunwick/Carrick. Now i believe Fowler is an upgrade on some of them, but not enough to warrant trading our 1LW for him.

Other than Rielly and Gardiner, Fowler is an upgrade on all those defensemen and a Fowler/JVR swap would make Toronto a better team. Solidifying your blue line tends to lead to winning more as opposed to wingers.

However, I'm not sure that the Ducks would have all that much interest in JVR. While he fits positionally, they may be looking more towards the financial side of things right now than getting the best player they could.

 

[Hero]

Leafs have enough LHD need RHD

 

[Ciao]

If Rielly is not great on the right then he's just not a great player because that's where he plays most of the time. I really don't agree with that assessment. Toronto can use pretty much any PMD at this point. They need the depth. It doesn't matter which side and they don't need to fall into the Edmonton trap of waiting for homegrown blue line talent to develop when there's no guarantee they even make it.

Do you watch the Leafs much?

What you're saying doesn't make much sense to some of us who do watch them regularly.

Rielly is a LHD who says it's a little more difficult to play the off-side, and it looks that way on the ice. He does play the right side, though, because of an excess of LHD and a shortage of RHD on the Leafs' roster, which I think management wants to correct.

Your narrative of why Fowler is such a good fit for the Leafs is not very persuasive.

 

[Macallan18]

If Rielly is not great on the right then he's just not a great player because that's where he plays most of the time. I really don't agree with that assessment. Toronto can use pretty much any PMD at this point. They need the depth. It doesn't matter which side and they don't need to fall into the Edmonton trap of waiting for homegrown blue line talent to develop when there's no guarantee they even make it.

a counter argument here:

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2...ning-how-morgan-riellys-partners-affected-him

 

[Ciao]

Other than Rielly and Gardiner, Fowler is an upgrade on all those defensemen and a Fowler/JVR swap would make Toronto a better team. Solidifying your blue line tends to lead to winning more as opposed to wingers.

However, I'm not sure that the Ducks would have all that much interest in JVR. While he fits positionally, they may be looking more towards the financial side of things right now than getting the best player they could.

No probs. I don't think the Leafs have much interest in trading JVR either unless it is for a real improvement.

Your guy, Fowler, would be a big upgrade on Hunwick.

He's not at all comparable to Polak. Fowler is a better player, but Polak fills a different need.

Zaitsev and Carrick are not exactly "rookies" (except perhaps in some technical sense, if that), but they are both new to the Leafs, skilled and have an untested upside. And they are both RHD. I don't know that the Leafs really would be better off in the fullness of time with Fowler than either one of Zaitsev or Carrick.

Marincin is a different guy too. He brings a different skillet than Fowler, and at times he looked really, really good doing that. I wouldn't say that Marincin is the better player, but he fills a role that fowler wouldn't.

The only guy you can really compare to Fowler is Gardiner, and we don't need both Fowler and Gardiner. We kind of like Jake, anyway, and I personally would have a hard time seeing Fowler as enough of an improvement over Gardiner to warrant his acquisition.

I'm pretty sure that Fowler is not nearly as good a defenceman as Reilly.

I don't really see a fit for your spare part on the Leafs.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Leafs have enough LHD need RHD

They need D period

 

[Liferleafer]

If Rielly is not great on the right then he's just not a great player because that's where he plays most of the time. I really don't agree with that assessment. Toronto can use pretty much any PMD at this point. They need the depth. It doesn't matter which side and they don't need to fall into the Edmonton trap of waiting for homegrown blue line talent to develop when there's no guarantee they even make it.

You don't trade your only 1LW for depth.

 

[Kelly]

I don't agree....Fowler=LH PMD...we have some of those (Rielly/Gardiner etc)...JVR=1LW...we have 1 of those (JVR). Not sure how this makes total sense for TO.

This!!!

We need experienced top six players to help ease Matthews/Nylander/Marner into the lineup, this is trading a need for slightly less of a need! If Fowler was a RHD I'd be up for it, but we need JVR more than we need another LHD.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Do you watch the Leafs much?

What you're saying doesn't make much sense to some of us who do watch them regularly.

Rielly is a LHD who says it's a little more difficult to play the off-side, and it looks that way on the ice. He does play the right side, though, because of an excess of LHD and a shortage of RHD on the Leafs' roster, which I think management wants to correct.

Your narrative of why Fowler is such a good fit for the Leafs is not very persuasive.

He's still predominantly on the right side whether that's out of need or not and it's been that way for a while. The point is that no matter how you slice it, Rielly can and likely will go on that side. If the Leafs end up going with what they have, Rielly still has to go on the right side because they have no options at the top of the blue line to fill that spot.

No probs. I don't think the Leafs have much interest in trading JVR either unless it is for a real improvement.

Your guy, Fowler, would be a big upgrade on Hunwick.

He's not at all comparable to Polak. Fowler is a better player, but Polak fills a different need.

Zaitsev and Carrick are not exactly "rookies" (except perhaps in some technical sense, if that), but they are both new to the Leafs, skilled and have an untested upside. And they are both RHD. I don't know that the Leafs really would be better off in the fullness of time with Fowler than either one of Zaitsev or Carrick.

Marincin is a different guy too. He brings a different skillet than Fowler, and at times he looked really, really good doing that. I wouldn't say that Marincin is the better player, but he fills a role that fowler wouldn't.

The only guy you can really compare to Fowler is Gardiner, and we don't need both Fowler and Gardiner. We kind of like Jake, anyway, and I personally would have a hard time seeing Fowler as enough of an improvement over Gardiner to warrant his acquisition.

I'm pretty sure that Fowler is not nearly as good a defenceman as Reilly.

I don't really see a fit for your spare part on the Leafs.

One, Fowler is not my guy. I hope he is dealt from Anaheim because I know he's a good player and it would make it easier for my team against the Ducks.

Two, Polak doesn't fill a need...at all. Physicality is a luxury in the NHL. Puck-movement from the blue line is critical for success and teams with depth of defensemen that can move the puck tend to perform the best. If Polak is in your top four, which at this point he likely is, your team is in trouble.

If both Zaitsev and Carrick are RHD's, it really has no impact on the viability of trading for Fowler who plays the left side. Now setting aside that that argument isn't much to begin with, you can't bank on either of those two making it and performing where they need to for the team to succeed. The biggest reason why you would take Fowler over either of those two is that Fowler is proven and the others are not and considering Fowler is in the same age range, that's a pretty big deal for a team lacking quality blue liners.

Marincin is a decent option on the 3rd pairing if his puck-moving abilities improve but beyond that, he's a dime a dozen player. There really isn't anything special about him but he's useful in a depth position as long as the puck skills get better.

As for not needing Gardiner and Fowler, I would say that's incorrect. There's nothing about either of the two that makes the other redundant. Puck-movement capability is critical from the blue line and the Leafs have nobody proven beyond Rielly and Gardiner and since Rielly can effectively play the right side and likely will continue to play the right side, that opens up their options to grab a d-man on either side to fill out their lineup.

Lastly, it's funny that you want to marginalize a player and a discussion simply because of a difference in opinion and that means you're marginalizing a player that played the most minutes on the team that won the Pacific. It's really pathetic to go that route.

You don't trade your only 1LW for depth.

I would...easily. The impact left wingers have on winning isn't that great unless you're a legitimately elite player which JVR is not. The impact that blue liners have is certainly larger and in Fowler's case, he would at worst be 2nd pairing in Toronto and considering what's there for them at this point, it would be a significant swap for them. Fowler would help the Leafs win more than JVR would. That's the bottom line. You need a solid blue line a lot more than you need a winger like JVR who is a solid producer but not much beyond that.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

This!!!

We need experienced top six players to help ease Matthews/Nylander/Marner into the lineup, this is trading a need for slightly less of a need! If Fowler was a RHD I'd be up for it, but we need JVR more than we need another LHD.

We need both, we need to find a way to keep JVR and improve the top 4 something we should be able to do it's not like JVR is our only valuable piece

 

[aufheben]

Sounds fair. Both players massively overrated by their fan bases

A lot of Leafs actually end up underrated because people overcompensate (Kessel, JVR, Gardiner, etc.). JVR is a 30/30 player, he's worth more than Fowler IMO.

Didn't the Ducks completely destroy the whole notion that good possession stats = good team/player. In 2014-15 we were 17th in the league in terms of possession and yet we were Western Conference champions, went to the WCFs and pushed the eventual SC winners and possession stat kings to game 7.

No. Top possession teams have still been owning the league for the last 10 years.

How did we manage that with Fowler and his turrrrrrrribbbleee possession stats being our #1D? Because the rest of the team was sooooooo good? That doesn't make sense because our teams overall possession stats were also tuuuurrrrribbbbllleeee and yet we still won the WC title made it to the WCFs. Something doesn't add up?

One skater is never the difference between a great team and a poor team.