News Article: Leafs in COVID Protocol

[Jojalu]

There was also a pitcher who got heart inflammation.

Here's your article: How elite athletes have struggled with the long-term effects of Covid



Don't use a phone for searches. Mobile phone searches emphasize selling you shit over anything else. You can easily test this yourself by doing a search for the same thing on a PC and phone. The results are often completely different.

Yes. For the Red Sox. I am also pretty sure Joulevi suffered from long Covid

 

[TorMapleJays]

‘No evidence’ Omicron milder than Delta, British researchers say

Their death numbers have dropped. Go look at the data. No rise in admissions and deaths have gone down despite cases going hyper.

 

[WillyC]

I always thought Covid would not go away until it became weak enough to elude vaccines and viral enough to mildly infect everyone… I hope that’s what Omicron is.

 

[Crazy Monkey]

Fair enough! I personally would not take that risk because data shows children’s immune systems are very robust to this sort of thing. But that is just me, and it’s certainly not my place.

I think that is a personal choice as well. But the data supports that the vaccine is very very safe AND that kids are more likely to get sick (resp illness, MISC, long covid, etc) from infection than from the vaccine

Having a "robust immune system" is a very general statement. In fact, overactivation of a child's immune system is why MISC happens

 

[Crazy Monkey]

we all hear your concerns and most agree with you but you cant fix stupid and there are many many who refuse to get vaccines its just aweful how selfish some people are.

I see two groups of unvaccinated:

There's a 2.5-5% who think they are smarter than everyone else and that we are all being manipulated. But they don't realize that there are two sides to an IQ standard deviation curve and that they fall far to the left

There is another 5 percent that aren't dumb though, but that have firm fixed beliefs that are not rooted in facts. They are too proud, too angry or too misinformed to pivot on their original decision. These people also tend to minimize- I don't go anywhere so my risk is zero OR if I get covid, I will not get too sick. When in fact, neither of these are true or guaranteed

 

[Crazy Monkey]

I say around 8000 per day post-xmas.

The doubling rate is about every 3 days from what I've read, so will be well past that by then

I mean our case count is already much higher. This is just based on people who went to get tested. They are also using sewage data to help trend things

 

[m1ker]

I see two groups of unvaccinated:

There's a 2.5-5% who think they are smarter than everyone else and that we are all being manipulated. But they don't realize that there are two sides to an IQ standard deviation curve and that they fall far to the left

There is another 5 percent that aren't dumb though, but that have firm fixed beliefs that are not rooted in facts. They are too proud, too angry or to misinformed to pivot on their original decision. These people also tend to minimize- I don't go anywhere so my risk is zero OR if I get covid, I will not get too sick. When in fact, neither of these are true or guaranteed

You are missing the group that just wants their questions answered without being censored

 

[Crazy Monkey]

You are missing the group that just wants their questions answered without being censored

Those people fall into both groups. Problem is, they often have their questions repeatedly answered but they just label and reject them as "lies". This is where the misinformation, poor understanding, or the sense that "they know better than everyone else" when they actually dont comes in

 

[GQS]

This exactly. This ostrich head in the sand crap has to stop. The medical evidence is overwhelming, and has been for a while now. Vaccines reduce transmission. Full stop. Vaccines reduce deaths. Full stop.

You forgot to mention that vaccines are the most effective for people 60 years and over and especially 70 years and over. There's a reason why once those people got vaccinated the number of covid deaths in the country dropped like a rock and the number of hospitalizations was greatly reduced.

Also remember back in July all the experts were sounding the alarm that the last 15% or so unvaccinated population were going to be the people 'driving the 4th wave' because Delta was so infectious and that they were going to be filling up hospitals and taking up tons of medical resources? Guess what? IT NEVER HAPPENED. From July until even now the number of concurrent covid patients in Ontario hospitals has remained more or less at around 300 patients.

So if that last 15% unvaccinated population was going to be infected and get so sick as to take up hospital beds don't you think it would've happened by now? It didn't and its why these 'experts' along with the media are no longer pushing the narrative ath the unvaxxed are going to fill up hospitals because they were WRONG and yet no one wants to hold them accountable for demonizing the unvaxxed for no good reason.

Also if you want more facts, do you know which age demographic makes up about 12% of all confirmed covid cases to date, but has only had 1.2% of that number to ever require hospital care and throughout the entire pandemic has had only 11 total covid deaths IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY? If you haven't guessed yet, its the age demographic that our experts are urging to get vaccinated right now even though all the data gathered from the past almost 2 years shows that its not needed. Why is it that these same experts who keep insisting they're making decisions based on 'facts and science' are suddenly ignoring all those facts and science?

 

[Confucius]

I see two groups of unvaccinated:

There's a 2.5-5% who think they are smarter than everyone else and that we are all being manipulated. But they don't realize that there are two sides to an IQ standard deviation curve and that they fall far to the left

There is another 5 percent that aren't dumb though, but that have firm fixed beliefs that are not rooted in facts. They are too proud, too angry or to misinformed to pivot on their original decision. These people also tend to minimize- I don't go anywhere so my risk is zero OR if I get covid, I will not get too sick. When in fact, neither of these are true or guaranteed

You asked me to ask my family member in health care, what she thinks about it. Well i cut and pasted part of her email.

I think we need to trust the science and the vaccines believe it or not are working. I remember when the pandemic started. We were having 2,000, 3,000 cases with 200 deaths. Over 90 % of Ontarians are vaccinated but now we have 4,000 cases and 2 deaths (compared to 200 with much fewer cases). People are still getting COVID and while the symptoms are bad, people are managing because the symptoms are like the flu was before. You don't hear of people getting colds or the flu anymore. Now it COVID. For those 200-300 in hospital in Ontario their symptoms have progressed to what was typically a pneumonia before (albeit more severe because of covid). It's an evolution of viruses. We went from colds, flu and pneumonia to sars now covid (coronavirus). However when I was working we had coronavirus then but a different variety of coronavirus to the current covid. That's because coronavirus progresses and mutates and then we have additional types of viruses. Apparently there are 1,000 different types of viruses out there. We have to get our vaccines, remain vigilant, wear masks, wash hands, social distance, be careful when shopping, don't have unvaccinated people to our homes.
The army and scientists have always said germ warfare is the greatest threat to man. The scientists who invented the MRNA messenger deserves the NOBEL Prize because of the breakthrough of MRNA messenger vaccines are very quickly being developed. The trouble is until the vaccines are sent to lower income populations in Africa, India and South America we will not be able to control or eliminate covid. Everyone needs to get vaccinated like we were vaccinated to prevent smallpox, then polio,then tuberculosis then the flu and pneumonia. Now it's covid. You never hear of anyone having smallpox now or polio. It's an evolution but very important to always follow the science.

 

[GQS]

I see two groups of unvaccinated:

There's a 2.5-5% who think they are smarter than everyone else and that we are all being manipulated. But they don't realize that there are two sides to an IQ standard deviation curve and that they fall far to the left

There is another 5 percent that aren't dumb though, but that have firm fixed beliefs that are not rooted in facts. They are too proud, too angry or to misinformed to pivot on their original decision. These people also tend to minimize- I don't go anywhere so my risk is zero OR if I get covid, I will not get too sick. When in fact, neither of these are true or guaranteed

What about people who simply go to Canada's own covid webpages and read the data posted by them and understand that maybe the data doesn't match the fearmonger campaigned being waged by the media, politicians and all our supposed medical experts?

I wish everyone would just go here and look at the data themselves:

COVID-19 daily epidemiology update - Canada.ca

If we all want to talk STRICTLY about facts, then please make the argument that by what FACTUAL MEASURE should kids under 12 be vaccinated when all the data shows its really not necessary or that the vaccine will benefit them minimally compared to the elderly and sick who benefit the most from the shots? If you look at the data further, people under 20 really don't need the shots at all if we're talking purely facts and not making any feeling/emotion based arguments.

Those are the facts and yet our experts who insist their decisions are made based on 'facts and science' are ignoring the facts when it doesn't support their narrative.

 

[Crazy Monkey]

What about people who simply go to Canada's own covid webpages and read the data posted by them and understand that maybe the data doesn't match the fearmonger campaigned being waged by the media, politicians and all our supposed medical experts?

I wish everyone would just go here and look at the data themselves:

COVID-19 daily epidemiology update - Canada.ca

If we all want to talk STRICTLY about facts, then please make the argument that by what FACTUAL MEASURE should kids under 12 be vaccinated when all the data shows its really not necessary or that the vaccine will benefit them minimally compared to the elderly and sick who benefit the most from the shots? If you look at the data further, people under 20 really don't need the shots at all if we're talking purely facts and not making any feeling/emotion based arguments.

Those are the facts and yet our experts who insist their decisions are made based on 'facts and science' are ignoring the facts when it doesn't support their narrative.

Firstly, vast majority of people don't have the skill or ability to interpret that data in any meaningful way. Some took high school stats or stats101 in university and think they do, but they dont. Plus not all important data is captured on that site

You're wrong about kids. They may not get as sick as adults in the majority of cases, but they can get sick from COVID. The risk and complications of COVID are still higher than any extremely rare and mild risk from the vaccine. The data is even more convincing for teens.

These are THE facts based on our current experience with COVID to date . NOT some/your subjective interpretation of facts. You have a different OPINION but that does not make you right

Here is a good and reliable source summarizing all this

COVID-19 vaccine for children 5 to 11 years of age | Canadian Paediatric Society

Should probably bring this discussion to the vaccine thread instead of this one

 

[Confucius]

What about people who simply go to Canada's own covid webpages and read the data posted by them and understand that maybe the data doesn't match the fearmonger campaigned being waged by the media, politicians and all our supposed medical experts?

I wish everyone would just go here and look at the data themselves:

COVID-19 daily epidemiology update - Canada.ca

If we all want to talk STRICTLY about facts, then please make the argument that by what FACTUAL MEASURE should kids under 12 be vaccinated when all the data shows its really not necessary or that the vaccine will benefit them minimally compared to the elderly and sick who benefit the most from the shots? If you look at the data further, people under 20 really don't need the shots at all if we're talking purely facts and not making any feeling/emotion based arguments.

Those are the facts and yet our experts who insist their decisions are made based on 'facts and science' are ignoring the facts when it doesn't support their narrative.

I think, The reason for vaccinating kids is to stop them from being carriers and bringing the virus to the elderly. Sure they will still carry some virus for a little while but that is different than having a full blown body full and spreading it around for the next 2 weeks or more before they do manage to eliminate it.

 

[Crazy Monkey]

You asked me to ask my family member in health care, what she thinks about it. Well i cut and pasted part of her email.

I think we need to trust the science and the vaccines believe it or not are working. I remember when the pandemic started. We were having 2,000, 3,000 cases with 200 deaths. Over 90 % of Ontarians are vaccinated but now we have 4,000 cases and 2 deaths (compared to 200 with much fewer cases). People are still getting COVID and while the symptoms are bad, people are managing because the symptoms are like the flu was before. You don't hear of people getting colds or the flu anymore. Now it COVID. For those 200-300 in hospital in Ontario their symptoms have progressed to what was typically a pneumonia before (albeit more severe because of covid). It's an evolution of viruses. We went from colds, flu and pneumonia to sars now covid (coronavirus). However when I was working we had coronavirus then but a different variety of coronavirus to the current covid. That's because coronavirus progresses and mutates and then we have additional types of viruses. Apparently there are 1,000 different types of viruses out there. We have to get our vaccines, remain vigilant, wear masks, wash hands, social distance, be careful when shopping, don't have unvaccinated people to our homes.
The army and scientists have always said germ warfare is the greatest threat to man. The scientists who invented the MRNA messenger deserves the NOBEL Prize because of the breakthrough of MRNA messenger vaccines are very quickly being developed. The trouble is until the vaccines are sent to lower income populations in Africa, India and South America we will not be able to control or eliminate covid. Everyone needs to get vaccinated like we were vaccinated to prevent smallpox, then polio,then tuberculosis then the flu and pneumonia. Now it's covid. You never hear of anyone having smallpox now or polio. It's an evolution but very important to always follow the science.

Your daughter sounds very sharp and very caring.

Death rates are low now but let's see what the death/hospital rate does in 2 weeks. There are estimates that two doses are only 40 percent effective against this variant. Getting in as many third doses as possible will be important.

 

[Crazy Monkey]

I think, The reason for vaccinating kids is to stop them from being carriers and bringing the virus to the elderly. Sure they will still carry some virus for a little while but that is different than having a full blown body full and spreading it around for the next 2 weeks or more before they do manage to eliminate it.

The vaccines serve to prevent covid complications in kids. The transmission piece is separate but yes, would be ideal if it did this too

 

[theTTC]

I see two groups of unvaccinated:

There's a 2.5-5% who think they are smarter than everyone else and that we are all being manipulated. But they don't realize that there are two sides to an IQ standard deviation curve and that they fall far to the left

There is another 5 percent that aren't dumb though, but that have firm fixed beliefs that are not rooted in facts. They are too proud, too angry or to misinformed to pivot on their original decision. These people also tend to minimize- I don't go anywhere so my risk is zero OR if I get covid, I will not get too sick. When in fact, neither of these are true or guaranteed

Are you Doug Ford? Sounds like his BS.

 

[Confucius]

Your daughter sounds very sharp and very caring.

Death rates are low now but let's see what the death/hospital rate does in 2 weeks. There are estimates that two doses are only 40 percent effective against this variant. Getting in as many third doses as possible will be important.

It was my sister, yeah we are very proud of her, she did go a long way in health care. Retired now, we are older. lol!

 

[Crazy Monkey]

Are you Doug Ford? Sounds like his BS.

What gave it away?? Is it because I wrote "to" instead of "too"??

 

[GQS]

Firstly, vast majority of people don't have the skill or ability to interpret that data in any meaningful way. Some took high school stats or stats101 in university and think they do, but they dont. Plus not all important data is captured on that site

You don't need to be a genius to interpret the numbers. Just basic common sense. Also ask yourself why aren't our experts and the media making THESE facts public and stating them on TV like they do with facts that they like to use to scare people with? You would think they would at least TRY and present ALL the facts in a fair and balanced manner instead of picking and choosing only the facts that suit them. Don't you think that's wrong?

You're wrong about kids. They may not get as sick as adults in the majority of cases, but they can get sick from COVID. The risk and complications of COVID are still higher than any extremely rare and mild risk from the vaccine. The data is even more convincing for teens. These are THE facts. NOT some/your subjective interpretation of facts. You have a different OPINION but that does not make you right

From article you linked:

Severe outcomes such as hospitalization, ICU admission, and death are rare. Nevertheless, some children develop severe disease and require hospitalization. In Canada, severe outcomes such as hospitalization and death are very infrequent in children, occurring in <0.3% and <0.002% respectively of confirmed SARS-CoV-2 cases in children aged 5 to 11 years old.

So THAT is reason enough to require kids to be vaccinated? No one ever said that kids are not affected by the virus at all, but its clear that extremely few kids in almost 2 years are affected by the virus in any significant way in any significant numbers.

 

[GQS]

I think, The reason for vaccinating kids is to stop them from being carriers and bringing the virus to the elderly. Sure they will still carry some virus for a little while but that is different than having a full blown body full and spreading it around for the next 2 weeks or more before they do manage to eliminate it.

Is there any study or data that actually shows kids are huge spreaders of the virus? I'd really like to see it otherwise its just people speculating that this is the case rather than it actually happening. Kids under 12 are the very last group to be vaccinated and all this time there hasn't been at least a couple of studies that show they're spreading the virus in a huge way? I find it hard to believe the media wouldn't be all over such data if it existed.

Also ever since the elderly have been largely vaccinated, the number of deaths have been extremely low throughout all of Canada despite so many kids not being vaccinated until recently. Fully vaccinated elderly being around unvaccinated kids for like half a year and still the death rate has never risen. I think its pretty clear by now that unvaxxed kids aren't a real threat to the elderly let alone most everyone else.

 

[Confucius]

Are you Doug Ford? Sounds like his BS.

Too funny, I read a post just yesterday, the poster used the phrase "My friends" I immediately thought that has to be Ford.

 

[Crazy Monkey]

Edit: moved convo to vaccine thread

 

[Confucius]

Is there any study or data that actually shows kids are huge spreaders of the virus? I'd really like to see it otherwise its just people speculating that this is the case rather than it actually happening. Kids under 12 are the very last group to be vaccinated and all this time there hasn't been at least a couple of studies that show they're spreading the virus in a huge way? I find it hard to believe the media wouldn't be all over such data if it existed.

Also ever since the elderly have been largely vaccinated, the number of deaths have been extremely low throughout all of Canada despite so many kids not being vaccinated until recently. Fully vaccinated elderly being around unvaccinated kids for like half a year and still the death rate has never risen. I think its pretty clear by now that unvaxxed kids aren't a real threat to the elderly let alone most everyone else.

Oh if I write it, it is just speculation... LOL! Afterall it is a discussion board and I admit I could be right out to lunch on many topics. Just as an example I sometimes post ideas about hockey and I may get into differences of opinion with real GM's, coaches or nhl players past or present. How bad is that?

 

[PromisedLand]

we dont know how hard it might hit the players

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Can we just stick talking about the Leafs and Covid? We shouldn’t be talking about kids and vaccination rates on this board. We have other places to do that.