News Article: Leafs in COVID Protocol

[Golden_Jet]

You don't need to be a genius to interpret the numbers. Just basic common sense. Also ask yourself why aren't our experts and the media making THESE facts public and stating them on TV like they do with facts that they like to use to scare people with? You would think they would at least TRY and present ALL the facts in a fair and balanced manner instead of picking and choosing only the facts that suit them. Don't you think that's wrong?



From article you linked:



So THAT is reason enough to require kids to be vaccinated? No one ever said that kids are not affected by the virus at all, but its clear that extremely few kids in almost 2 years are affected by the virus in any significant way in any significant numbers.

A lot of kids are babysat by grandparents.

 

[egd27]

Is there any study or data that actually shows kids are huge spreaders of the virus? I'd really like to see it otherwise its just people speculating that this is the case rather than it actually happening. Kids under 12 are the very last group to be vaccinated and all this time there hasn't been at least a couple of studies that show they're spreading the virus in a huge way? I find it hard to believe the media wouldn't be all over such data if it existed.

Also ever since the elderly have been largely vaccinated, the number of deaths have been extremely low throughout all of Canada despite so many kids not being vaccinated until recently. Fully vaccinated elderly being around unvaccinated kids for like half a year and still the death rate has never risen. I think its pretty clear by now that unvaxxed kids aren't a real threat to the elderly let alone most everyone else.

What's an acceptable number of deaths for you? Does that number include or exclude your family and friends?

 

[ToneDog]

4812 is the highest daily case count in Ontario as far as my googling could pull. We got 4177 today. It's also jumping at crazy rates 500-800 cases more per day. They could realistically pass it tomorrow the way we are going. That's with the vast majority double vaxxed and some x3. I wonder where the fourth wave peaks.

We managed to keep the 4th wave in check. This looks to be the 5th wave and most likely not the last.

 

[SoftDumpNtheCorner88]

So how long are we guessing the leafs are off for?

I hope it's not for too much longer, we don't want games to pile up before playoffs and we exhaust ourselves

 

[Leafsfan74]

I'm no expert but the signs out of other countries long before omicron suggested that the vaccine wanes. Ultimately as far as I concerned this is going to be an endemic. Hopefully I'm wrong.

If I'm right, it's all a matter of when, not if, health experts politicians and society accepts this. A pill that some are working on may be an option after one contracts it.

 

[Confucius]

Can we just stick talking about the Leafs and Covid? We shouldn’t be talking about kids and vaccination rates on this board. We have other places to do that.

So how long are we guessing the leafs are off for?

I hope it's not for too much longer, we don't want games to pile up before playoffs and we exhaust ourselves

Well they have what 6 guys in protocal, that doesn't mean they have covid, does it? So I think they should be good to go by Wednesday.

 

[Jojalu]

You forgot to mention that vaccines are the most effective for people 60 years and over and especially 70 years and over. There's a reason why once those people got vaccinated the number of covid deaths in the country dropped like a rock and the number of hospitalizations was greatly reduced.

Also remember back in July all the experts were sounding the alarm that the last 15% or so unvaccinated population were going to be the people 'driving the 4th wave' because Delta was so infectious and that they were going to be filling up hospitals and taking up tons of medical resources? Guess what? IT NEVER HAPPENED. From July until even now the number of concurrent covid patients in Ontario hospitals has remained more or less at around 300 patients.

So if that last 15% unvaccinated population was going to be infected and get so sick as to take up hospital beds don't you think it would've happened by now? It didn't and its why these 'experts' along with the media are no longer pushing the narrative ath the unvaxxed are going to fill up hospitals because they were WRONG and yet no one wants to hold them accountable for demonizing the unvaxxed for no good reason.

Also if you want more facts, do you know which age demographic makes up about 12% of all confirmed covid cases to date, but has only had 1.2% of that number to ever require hospital care and throughout the entire pandemic has had only 11 total covid deaths IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY? If you haven't guessed yet, its the age demographic that our experts are urging to get vaccinated right now even though all the data gathered from the past almost 2 years shows that its not needed. Why is it that these same experts who keep insisting they're making decisions based on 'facts and science' are suddenly ignoring all those facts and science?

I think it has been a little of both. The 15% unvaxxed make up 80-90% of those in ICU with Covid related illness and it has been awful in Eastern Europe and to a point in the US for those unvaxxed but it hasn't been apocolyptic like they led everyone to believe.

In Ontario it is tough for the unvaxxed to do anything in public indoor settings so their risk has gone down of contracting.

I think we are over reacting again. Watching the NFL and golf today after spending 3 months in Texas and Oklahoma this summer/fall and I can't get over the fact of how nervous people are here.

 

[Clark4Ever]

What about people who simply go to Canada's own covid webpages and read the data posted by them and understand that maybe the data doesn't match the fearmonger campaigned being waged by the media, politicians and all our supposed medical experts?

I wish everyone would just go here and look at the data themselves:

COVID-19 daily epidemiology update - Canada.ca

If we all want to talk STRICTLY about facts, then please make the argument that by what FACTUAL MEASURE should kids under 12 be vaccinated when all the data shows its really not necessary or that the vaccine will benefit them minimally compared to the elderly and sick who benefit the most from the shots? If you look at the data further, people under 20 really don't need the shots at all if we're talking purely facts and not making any feeling/emotion based arguments.

Those are the facts and yet our experts who insist their decisions are made based on 'facts and science' are ignoring the facts when it doesn't support their narrative.

I agree with this. My wife and I are vaccinated but we are hesitant to vaccinate our young children, and I know many vaccinated parents that feel the same way.

 

[kevsh]

I can't get over the fact of how nervous people are here.

A lot of Canadians won't go to the U.S. this winter because they can't get over how nonchalant so many Americans are.

I think the numbers back up the caution: 30k deaths out of ~30 million in Canada and many are angry there's been so many lost. 800k deaths out of ~330 million in the U.S., which is among the highest per capita death rate of first/second world countries on the planet. Somebody's doing it (more) wrong than the other.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Firstly, vast majority of people don't have the skill or ability to interpret that data in any meaningful way. Some took high school stats or stats101 in university and think they do, but they dont. Plus not all important data is captured on that site

You're wrong about kids. They may not get as sick as adults in the majority of cases, but they can get sick from COVID. The risk and complications of COVID are still higher than any extremely rare and mild risk from the vaccine. The data is even more convincing for teens.

These are THE facts based on our current experience with COVID to date . NOT some/your subjective interpretation of facts. You have a different OPINION but that does not make you right

Here is a good and reliable source summarizing all this

COVID-19 vaccine for children 5 to 11 years of age | Canadian Paediatric Society

Should probably bring this discussion to the vaccine thread instead of this one

The truth of the matter is that at this stage, the potential long term effects of the vaccines regarding children are unknown.

The available vaccine data is based on short term studies, relatively speaking. Traditionally, controlled study groups for novel vaccines are monitored for adverse effects for several years.

 

[Jojalu]

A lot of Canadians won't go to the U.S. this winter because they can't get over how nonchalant so many Americans are.

I think the numbers back up the caution: 30k deaths out of ~30 million in Canada and many are angry there's been so many lost. 800k deaths out of ~330 million in the U.S., which is among the highest per capita death rate of first/second world countries on the planet. Somebody's doing it (more) wrong than the other.

Why be hesitent to go to the States if you are vaxxed? Obviously the vaxxed spread this just as easily. If you decide to get your booster than apparantly you are in great shape and should have zero problem travelling

 

[Crazy Monkey]

The truth of the matter is that at this stage, the potential long term effects of the vaccines regarding children are unknown.

The available vaccine data is based on short term studies, relatively speaking. Traditionally, controlled study groups for novel vaccines are monitored for adverse effects for several years.

Responded to this in the other thread

 

[Golden_Jet]

All cross border games postponed until after Christmas.

Have a good and safe Christmas everyone.

 

[Torontonian]

Why be hesitent to go to the States if you are vaxxed? Obviously the vaxxed spread this just as easily. If you decide to get your booster than apparantly you are in great shape and should have zero problem travelling

I think it has to do with the repercussions if you do test positive for COVID while in the states, 1) staying in the states till your no longer positive to travel back home to Canada. 2) I've heard random people getting pulled at the airport at random t to have to quarantine at home for 2 weeks.

I just hope with the high case count in Canada, the ICU numbers stay low. If you have 10,000 cases a day and the ICU count is still low, it isn't the worst thing.

Anyways, seems like the Leafs will be off till the 27th which isn't horrible, allows everyone to get rested and lets the injured players heal.

 

[PromisedLand]

 

[TorMapleJays]

A lot of Canadians won't go to the U.S. this winter because they can't get over how nonchalant so many Americans are.

I think the numbers back up the caution: 30k deaths out of ~30 million in Canada and many are angry there's been so many lost. 800k deaths out of ~330 million in the U.S., which is among the highest per capita death rate of first/second world countries on the planet. Somebody's doing it (more) wrong than the other.

just got back from Florida. It was great. Not a mask in sight.(Disney yes, Universal, no)

tested clean. Great trip. Depressing back here.

when you look at cases /population Florida is only .005% more dangerous then Ontario, and that is without any segregation.

 

[PromisedLand]

Dubas wants to play....

 

[cyris]

We probably would have been shutdown anyway with all our cases but this means we are shut down till after Christmas with puke last remaining game being against an American team.

 

[Fogelhund]

Their death numbers have dropped. Go look at the data. No rise in admissions and deaths have gone down despite cases going hyper.

It's premature to make conclusions on deaths with Omicron.

 

[Fogelhund]

There is info that it spreads 40 times more in bronchi and 10 times less in lungs. It must be milder. The guardian reported on findings this morning.

It certainly is true that it's more in the bronchi, and less in the lungs. So far, Hospitalization and ICU numbers fall in line with Delta, in both the UK and Denmark. Early days, and law of small numbers, may skew numbers. We should start to see the bigger pictures in a couple more weeks to a month.

 

[cyris]

just got back from Florida. It was great. Not a mask in sight.(Disney yes, Universal, no)

tested clean. Great trip. Depressing back here.

when you look at cases /population Florida is only .005% more dangerous then Ontario, and that is without any segregation.

Florida’s population is 21m and they have had over 62,000 Covid deaths.
Canada’s population is 38m and we have had 30, 000 Covid deaths.

Maybe not the model we should emulate.

 

[ToneDog]

It's premature to make conclusions on deaths with Omicron.

CP24 ticker said UK data shows that Omicron symptoms are similar to a cold.

 

[cyris]

It's premature to make conclusions on deaths with Omicron.

What we totally have all the needed information about a variant of Covid after just a month.
There couldn’t possibly be more complications we don’t know about yet.

 

[leafsfan5]

When I said I wanted Soup to get more rest this isn't what I meant

 

[Jojalu]

Dubas wants to play....

That is the approach the NFL has taken. It is correct. 2 years in and we are still testing asymptomatic people who are fully vaxxed. It's nonsense