News Article: Leafs in COVID Protocol

[budzz]

That's not at all what you've been told from health care professionals though.

They haven't said that once vaccinated, that you won't get infected, nor have they said that "the healthiest guys on the planet in their 20's and 30's would be well equipped to fight off severe infections".

What has been consistent, to those who have paid attention, is that the chances of contracting, and of transmitting the virus are diminished for those who are vaccinated, and that everyone needs to be vaccinated because although the chances that younger, healthier people having severe symptoms are lower, they are a definite possibility for everyone.

The vaccines obviously also work, because the number of people with moderate to severe symptoms is drastically lower (respective to the number of infections) than it was before vaccinations were common.

Why did we say to "vaccinate the sick, elderly and those in constant contact" first? Because we didn't have the vaccines to give to everyone, nor did we have the "man-power" to vaccinate everyone simultaneously. We therefore, started with the most likely to have severe symptoms first, and then started working backwards from there.

This exactly. This ostrich head in the sand crap has to stop. The medical evidence is overwhelming, and has been for a while now. Vaccines reduce transmission. Full stop. Vaccines reduce deaths. Full stop. My wife, not long ago now, had a lump found in her breast. Due to full hospitals and the healthcare system busting at the seams, she had to wait 3 months to get a scan. 3 painful months for our family. All due to hospitalizations of Covid cases. Thankfully it turned out negative, but that is one example. I am sure there are hundreds of thousands similar. There was even one clown in here about a month back boasting how he used a fake vacc passport to go to a Leaf game. Seriously? Have you been living in a cave for 2 years? Enough is enough. Stop the denial and protect each other and our families. If there is a .000001% chance my young grandson gets harmed, I will NOT take that chance. Painful to read the crap sometimes.

 

[Crazy Monkey]

If the whole team gets infected what does that tell you about the vaccines. Would the storyline be they can't stop infections at all just the severity. I think some of the healthiest guys on the planet in their 20's and 30's would be well equipped to fight off severe infections anyway. At least that's what we were told at one time. Vaccinate the sick, elderly and those in constant contact first.

I'll try to unwrap this

Firstly, we shouldn't use 30 men in frequent close proximity, without masks, in small spaces/exercising together, and travelling from city to city in the context of a new contagious variant with only two doses in them as the campaign for a vaccine failure

The primary outcome/goal of the vaccine has and always will be to reduce disease severity. This is what the original vaccine trials looked at and the vaccines have been overwhelmingly successful at doing this over the last 9-12 months.

In terms of reducing transmission, from the beginning the messaging has been that we did not know if the vaccine would do this. We HOPED it would but it was not an outcome evaluated in the original studies. However, in time, and prior to omicron, there was strong and growing evidence that the vaccine did reduce transmission, which was a big bonus. This NEVER meant that vaccinated people could not spread the virus. We are talking relative risk reduction (compared to unvaccinated) and not an absolute risk reduction down to zero

Omicron has challenged this. Third doses are needed. This was in the cards WELL before omicron surfaced though. Known waning immunity in our population and the need for third doses (or more) has been discussed for months already. With the third dose, the trend of preventing disease severity will continue. It's unclear if it will also reduce transmission risk again. Probably yes, but the question will be does it even matter at this point. The thing is already spreading like wildfire.

Thats all I can think of for now in response. Like someone else said, science is not linear. You have to adjust sometimes and there is nothing wrong with that. We may need a fourth or annual dose for the next few years. That's not a failure. That's a reflection of being in a pandemic involving a novel and evolving virus

You have a daughter in Healthcare right? (Unless I'm mixing you up). What did she say?

Edit: also remember that young healthy men in their 30s are not immune to getting very sick from this thing

 

[budzz]

Just honestly want to wish all the boys that are in protocol the best of luck. 1 week before Christmas... they have families like the rest of us. These guys have kids, many with young kids. Protocol is supposed to be what, 10 days? 7 days before Christmas. To H3ll with hockey. Their lives are turned upside down at a time for family, and a few may not even be able to give their child a Christmas hug. Terrible.

All the best to everyone and their families.

 

[Crazy Monkey]

Just honestly want to wish all the boys that are in protocol the best of luck. 1 week before Christmas... they have families like the rest of us. These guys have kids, many with young kids. Protocol is supposed to be what, 10 days? 7 days before Christmas. To H3ll with hockey. Their lives are turned upside down at a time for family, and a few may not even be able to give their child a Christmas hug. Terrible.

All the best to everyone and their families.

Absolutely this. Post of the thread

 

[Joe n]

While you're right, it's the people who have dragged their ass on the vaccination and have generally gone against the health care regulations, that have slowed down our progression through this thing.

Why test asymptomatic players?

Well, the NHL has a duty of care for all of their employees, they also have a duty of care for the people in the buildings (staff and general public). If the NHL is found to not taking reasonable measures to reduce the spread of a deadly, highly infectious disease, then they would be legally liable.

If there is the chance that asymptomatic players infecting other players unwillingly, then the NHL needs to know at the earliest possible time, who is infected and not allow those players to play. That's just common sense.


As for holding public officials responsible, who have progressively handicapped the health care systems....well that has absolutely nothing to do with testing players, and the duty of care the NHL holds.
That is up to the general public to voice their opinion going forward, at the voting booth.

We can't have it where we actively support someone who tells us they are going to pass cuts to the health care system in order to "save us tax dollars" and then get upset when the health care system is overwhelmed in a time of a global pandemic.

Do you know how many people would be diagnosed with Covid if everyone was tested as often as professional athletes are. Half the population would have to be put in quarantine

 

[Confucius]

I'll try to unwrap this

Firstly, we shouldn't use 30 men in frequent close proximity, without masks, in small spaces/exercising together, and travelling from city to city in the context of a new contagious variant with only two doses in them as the campaign for a vaccine failure

The primary outcome/goal of the vaccine has and always will be to reduce disease severity. This is what the original vaccine trials looked at and the vaccines have been overwhelmingly successful at doing this over the last 9-12 months.

In terms of reducing transmission, from the beginning the messaging has been that we did not know if the vaccine would do this. We HOPED it would but it was not an outcome evaluated in the original studies. However, in time, and prior to omicron, there was strong and growing evidence that the vaccine did reduce transmission, which was a big bonus. This NEVER meant that vaccinated people could not spread the virus. We are talking relative risk reduction (compared to unvaccinated) and not an absolute risk reduction down to zero

Omicron has challenged this. Third doses are needed. This was in the cards WELL before omicron surfaced though. Known waning immunity in our population and the need for third doses (or more) has been discussed for months already. With the third dose, the trend of preventing disease severity will continue. It's unclear if it will also reduce transmission risk again. Probably yes, but the question will be does it even matter at this point. The thing is already spreading like wildfire.

Thats all I can think of for now in response. Like someone else said, science is not linear. You have to adjust sometimes and there is nothing wrong with that. We may need a fourth or annual dose for the next few years. That's not a failure. That's a reflection of being in a pandemic involving a novel and evolving virus

You have a daughter in Healthcare right? (Unless I'm mixing you up). What did she say?

Edit: also remember that young healthy men in their 30s are not immune to getting very sick from this thing

I was under the impression the vaccines had an efficacy of 90% for stopping transmission and 100% against a severe outcome.

Comparing the COVID-19 Vaccines: How Are They Different? > News > Yale Medicine

Reading your comment I was surprised to see that you wouldn't be surprised if everybody on the team got the virus. Doesn't that mean an efficacy of ZERO for preventing transmission, on the team?

Anyway my daughter and sister don't live at home and I haven't asked them what they would think if everyone on the team caught covid even though they are all vaccinated. I certainly will next time I see them. In the meantime by all means get your shots. Coincidentally the wife and I received our 3rd doses today. Now talk about having all our bases covered we now have received, 1 astra, 1 moderna and 1 pfizer.

 

[Crazy Monkey]

I was under the impression the vaccines had an efficacy of 90% for stopping transmission and 100% against a severe outcome.

Comparing the COVID-19 Vaccines: How Are They Different? > News > Yale Medicine

Reading your comment I was surprised to see that you wouldn't be surprised if everybody on the team got the virus. Doesn't that mean an efficacy of ZERO for preventing transmission, on the team?

Anyway my daughter and sister don't live at home and I haven't asked them what they would think if everyone on the team caught covid even though they are all vaccinated. I certainly will next time I see them. In the meantime by all means get your shots. Coincidentally the wife and I received our 3rd doses today. Now talk about having all our bases covered we now have received, 1 astra, 1 moderna and 1 pfizer.

I couldn't find the transmission reduction risk in that article, and I don't know the exact number. Just know two things: 1) vaccinated have reduced transmission compared to unvaccinated and 2) the risk of a vaccinated person transmitting covid is not zero (I.e. they can)

If everyone on the team gets it, then yes, the vaccine had a 100 percent failure rate of preventing transmission in this circumstance. But that's why I brought up context in my first paragraph. So many factors at hand (close proximity, ++travel and contacts, waning immunity and only two doses, new highly contagious variant with known breakthrough infections, etc)

Glad you guys are triple vaxxed! You definitely got the full cocktail. (First I've spoken to with one of each). I'm off for night. Take care

 

[mix1home]

‘No evidence’ Omicron milder than Delta, British researchers say

There is info that it spreads 40 times more in bronchi and 10 times less in lungs. It must be milder. The guardian reported on findings this morning.

 

[Future]

This exactly. This ostrich head in the sand crap has to stop. The medical evidence is overwhelming, and has been for a while now. Vaccines reduce transmission. Full stop. Vaccines reduce deaths. Full stop. My wife, not long ago now, had a lump found in her breast. Due to full hospitals and the healthcare system busting at the seams, she had to wait 3 months to get a scan. 3 painful months for our family. All due to hospitalizations of Covid cases. Thankfully it turned out negative, but that is one example. I am sure there are hundreds of thousands similar. There was even one clown in here about a month back boasting how he used a fake vacc passport to go to a Leaf game. Seriously? Have you been living in a cave for 2 years? Enough is enough. Stop the denial and protect each other and our families. If there is a .000001% chance my young grandson gets harmed, I will NOT take that chance. Painful to read the crap sometimes.

Honestly just going to edit this comment and wish you the best. Just would encourage you to let go of your anger towards your fellow citizens because the vast majority have done as asked. If you have to be angry, direct it at those that are in charge of policy making and resource distribution.

I can also reassure you that the data shows that your grandson will be fine. You don’t have to worry about him. Hope at some point here you can relax and enjoy your holidays with the family.

 

[mix1home]

Kinda knew that Oilers game was the beginning of this. Atleast we got the win while getting some covid on the side.

Do you want your win with covid on side? I loled for whatever reason.

 

[Crazy Monkey]

Honestly just going to edit this comment and wish you the best. Just would encourage you to let go of your anger towards your fellow citizens because the vast majority have done as asked. If you have to be angry, direct it at those that are in charge of policy making and resource distribution.

I can also reassure you that the data shows that your grandson will be fine. You don’t have to worry about him. Hope at some point here you can relax and enjoy your holidays with the family.

I agree with you about redirecting anger. There is still the 5% out there that irritate the hell out of me with conspiracy theories and lies, but vast majority are not in that boat

Do want to say though that sweeping statements like "your grandson will be fine" are not helpful. Yes majority of kids with covid do well. But serious respiratory illness, MISC , long covid, death all happen in kids. This is why I would risk my kid getting mild myocarditis (1 in million chance) from vaccine than one of the other more likely things from covid. But the vaccine is not an option for all kids yet

 

[Future]

I agree with you about redirecting anger. There is still the 5% out there that irritate the hell out of me with conspiracy theories and lies, but vast majority are not in that boat

Do want to say though that sweeping statements like "your grandson will be fine" are not helpful. Yes majority of kids with covid do well. But serious respiratory illness, MISC , long covid, death all happen in kids. This is why I would risk my kid getting mild myocarditis (1 in million chance) from vaccine than one of the other more likely things from covid. But the vaccine is not an option for all kids yet

Fair enough! I personally would not take that risk because data shows children’s immune systems are very robust to this sort of thing. But that is just me, and it’s certainly not my place.

 

[pcruz]

Do you know how many people would be diagnosed with Covid if everyone was tested as often as professional athletes are. Half the population would have to be put in quarantine

Well, if that half of the population were quarantined, properly, at the same time, the other half of the population could go back to life as it was before Covid.

What is lost here is that the virus needs a host in order to be infectious and transmissible.
If the host overcomes the virus and doesn't pass it along to anyone else, that entire line of transmission dies there.

If we had handled this thing severely and decisively from the beginning, we could have had a better handle on it.
Now, it's not feasible to expect governments to act swiftly and harshly based on a new disease we had no information on, that can be completely invisible and still infectious.

It could have been handled better. Here, down south, across the pond, everywhere.

What this does, is reinforce the mantra that I've asserted my adult life:

Nothing is more important to our society as properly funded education and health care systems.


If you want to automatically lose my vote, contemplate cutting funding to the health care or education sectors. Instant turn-off from me.

 

[Joe n]

Well, if that half of the population were quarantined, properly, at the same time, the other half of the population could go back to life as it was before Covid.

What is lost here is that the virus needs a host in order to be infectious and transmissible.
If the host overcomes the virus and doesn't pass it along to anyone else, that entire line of transmission dies there.

If we had handled this thing severely and decisively from the beginning, we could have had a better handle on it.
Now, it's not feasible to expect governments to act swiftly and harshly based on a new disease we had no information on, that can be completely invisible and still infectious.

It could have been handled better. Here, down south, across the pond, everywhere.

What this does, is reinforce the mantra that I've asserted my adult life:

Nothing is more important to our society as properly funded education and health care systems.


If you want to automatically lose my vote, contemplate cutting funding to the health care or education sectors. Instant turn-off from me.

That would be nice but where is the capacity to test everyone in the world that frequently? And yes, health care funding should be expanded but governments don't seem to understand that

 

[-DeMo-]

I have an honest question wondering if anyone can answer, we've been in this for 21 months now, and I havent heard of a single athlete in professional sports end up in the hospitals as of yet has there been anyone?

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

I have an honest question wondering if anyone can answer, we've been in this for 21 months now, and I havent heard of a single athlete in professional sports end up in the hospitals as of yet has there been anyone?

RB Ryquell Armstead comes to mind. Covid caused serious issues right before the 2020 NFL season and he had to be hospitalized twice

 

[Golden_Jet]

I have an honest question wondering if anyone can answer, we've been in this for 21 months now, and I havent heard of a single athlete in professional sports end up in the hospitals as of yet has there been anyone?

Yep for sure, some athletes have died, try google.

 

[-DeMo-]

Yep for sure, some athletes have died, try google.

I did and got nothing... thats why I asked. perhaps instead of saying try google since you know that some athletes have died you should have been able to name a couple, and that would have been more productive but thanks for the response.

that RB is back playing on the Packer practice squad so thats good.

 

[Snipes 29]

This exactly. This ostrich head in the sand crap has to stop. The medical evidence is overwhelming, and has been for a while now. Vaccines reduce transmission. Full stop. Vaccines reduce deaths. Full stop. My wife, not long ago now, had a lump found in her breast. Due to full hospitals and the healthcare system busting at the seams, she had to wait 3 months to get a scan. 3 painful months for our family. All due to hospitalizations of Covid cases. Thankfully it turned out negative, but that is one example. I am sure there are hundreds of thousands similar. There was even one clown in here about a month back boasting how he used a fake vacc passport to go to a Leaf game. Seriously? Have you been living in a cave for 2 years? Enough is enough. Stop the denial and protect each other and our families. If there is a .000001% chance my young grandson gets harmed, I will NOT take that chance. Painful to read the crap sometimes.

we all hear your concerns and most agree with you but you cant fix stupid and there are many many who refuse to get vaccines its just aweful how selfish some people are.

 

[Snipes 29]

This coming just after the league shut down 3 entire teams. This shit is never gonna end.

no it will not go away too many different strains and too many dumb ignorant non vaccinated in today society.

 

[Jojalu]

I did and got nothing... thats why I asked. perhaps instead of saying try google since you know that some athletes have died you should have been able to name a couple, and that would have been more productive but thanks for the response.

that RB is back playing on the Packer practice squad so thats good.

I can only remember Freddie Freeman being really ill way back at the beginning.

 

[ToneDog]

no it will not go away too many different strains and too many dumb ignorant non vaccinated in today society.

Add too many dumb ignorant vaccinated people as well.

 

[Magic Man]

4812 is the highest daily case count in Ontario as far as my googling could pull. We got 4177 today. It's also jumping at crazy rates 500-800 cases more per day. They could realistically pass it tomorrow the way we are going. That's with the vast majority double vaxxed and some x3. I wonder where the fourth wave peaks.

 

[TGB]

I can only remember Freddie Freeman being really ill way back at the beginning.

There was also a pitcher who got heart inflammation.

Here's your article: How elite athletes have struggled with the long-term effects of Covid

I did and got nothing... thats why I asked.

Don't use a phone for searches. Mobile phone searches emphasize selling you shit over anything else. You can easily test this yourself by doing a search for the same thing on a PC and phone. The results are often completely different.

 

[MSZ]

4812 is the highest daily case count in Ontario as far as my googling could pull. We got 4177 today. It's also jumping at crazy rates 500-800 cases more per day. They could realistically pass it tomorrow the way we are going. That's with the vast majority double vaxxed and some x3. I wonder where the fourth wave peaks.

I say around 8000 per day post-xmas.