Confirmed with Link: Leafs have acquired Ryan O’Reilly, Noel Acciari & Josh Pillar in a three-team trade with STL and MIN

[Sypher04]

So, I grew up with Ryan and Cal playing hockey. He got drafted by his favourite team so unless his views have changed in the years since I wouldn't be expecting a sweetheart deal.

That actually could bode well for us. He already did the ‘play for childhood favorite team’ thing - that is checked off. At this stage, he may see more value in being closer to home. Who knows honestly

 

[Bomber0104]

Better odds of doing it now than 2 years from now. Might as well trade everyone worth anything and start from scratch if you’re planning around 2025.

Why are you so upset about losing a potential Sandin 2 years from now? Wouldn’t Dumbass just waste the first on another 5’5 midget anyway?

I'm guessing the answer to my initial question is no then..?

Pity.

I'm not upset about anything? I was upset a few years ago when the Leafs lost to Columbus with the bulk of the same roster.

Now I'm just baffled at what has been going on since....?

 

[StuckOutHere]

That actually could bode well for us. He already did the ‘play for childhood favorite team’ thing - that is checked off. At this stage, he may see more value in being closer to home. Who knows honestly

Yeah I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying what I knew at the time.

 

[Menzinger]

What if the Leafs don't have great prospects in the first place though?

Knies, surely.

A lot of teams have at least a Knies,

That most teams have a goal scoring power forward as their top prospect? Seems very unlikely...

Almost as unlikely as the claim that a 2nd round pick has a 50%+ chance at making the NHL!

 

[Kurtz]

So 2nd round picks, like Knies, are only valuable after we pick them?

Why not before?

I thought Dubas was a master-class in drafting in scouting?

He's taking that avenue away from himself to rent a player?!

I don't understand why picks are only valuable for you until after-the-fact?

Why can't you trust Dubas to hand us another Knies? Another Lilligren? Another Sandin?

The sorts of players we now need and are actually relying on to fill out the roster cheaply, and with some upside and extra boost for the big-roster?

You seem to like it both ways, whichever the Leafs GM happens to go with,,,,

Knies is an outlier. Most 2nd rounders turn out more like Robertson, or Rasanen, or Korshknov or Grundstrom, etc. It has nothing to do with trust in Dubas - statistically even the best GMS aren't likely to get an impact player in the 2nd round.

 

[Bomber0104]

That most teams have a goal scoring power forward as their top prospect? Seems very unlikely...

Almost as unlikely as the claim that a 2nd round pick has a 50%+ chance at making the NHL!

I'll refer you to most credible scouting reports then.

Teams that have picked in the first round (not the Leafs) have been selecting those kinds of player for years.

Those players don't stay prospects for long, and start making immediate impacts so maybe you're confusing them with "prospects" and that's why you aren't finding them?

 

[Bomber0104]

Knies is an outlier. Most 2nd rounders turn out more like Robertson, or Rasanen, or Korshknov or Grundstrom, etc. It has nothing to do with trust in Dubas - statistically even the best GMS aren't likely to get an impact player in the 2nd round.

Why don't teams abandon the avenue entirely then?

What motivates them to pick in the 2nd round?

It's not going to work, so just trade it away and add a roster player..

 

[Confucius]

Ok lol. If you think we have better odds of winning in 2025 with a 35 year old Tavares, 32 year old Rielly, and a D+2 27th overall pick kicking around on the 3rd pair/3rd line that’s certainly an opinion. Even if the 3 were signed to 8 year deals they wouldn’t be better than they are now in 2025 unless they’re really really late bloomers for some reason. This years team is better than the 25 team regardless of contracts unless you want to go through Boston’s late 2010s missing the playoffs, picking in the teens, and praying the kids age as gracefully as Bergeron and Marchand did, or bottoming out like Colorado did to get Makar.

Holding on to picks or packaging them for bigger names with term made sense instead of Foligno/Marleau when those assets would have lined up with the big 3’s prime 24-27 years, doing it now is absurd.

Well Sandin, liljegren, Marner, Mathews, Nylander, Kadri were all helpful, imagine if we had 3 or 4 more like that. I’d like our team much better. Dubas rolled the dice knowing he won’t have to work or worry about the lack of 1st round prospects and expiring vet contracts in the next 2 years. Never worked for us before Kyle so by all means just carryon. Lol! We will be here lamenting these decisions long after Dubas is gone.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Dubas is frothing at the mouth to give those up to secure his first-ever, 1st-round.

Ownership wouldn't allow it though, no doubt,

I'm not so sure about that.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Well Sandin, liljegren, Marner, Mathews, Nylander, Kadri were all helpful, imagine if we had 3 or 4 more like that. I’d like our team much better. Dubas rolled the dice knowing he won’t have to work or worry about the lack of 1st round prospects and expiring vet contracts in the next 2 years. Never worked for us before Kyle so by all means just carryon. Lol! We will be here lamenting these decisions long after Dubas is gone.

Ok but the time to get those 3 or 4 guys was a few years ago, we should have Amirov playing 2LW right now but thems the breaks. Whoever we draft 27th would not improve our team by more than Tavares/Rielly slow down 2 years from now.

 

[Confucius]

Ok but the time to get those 3 or 4 guys was a few years ago, we should have Amirov playing 2LW right now but thems the breaks. Whoever we draft 27th would not improve our team by more than Tavares/Rielly slow down 2 years from now.

It’s been a disaster, things were going so well drafting so many great players, then good old impatience hit. I’m not expecting much difference we will see.

 

[Bomber0104]

Ok but the time to get those 3 or 4 guys was a few years ago, we should have Amirov playing 2LW right now but thems the breaks. Whoever we draft 27th would not improve our team by more than Tavares/Rielly slow down 2 years from now.

So abandon the avenue entirely?

We have some great players, so never draft in the first and second round again because we have to fill in the holes that the manager didn't plan for in the off-season at the last-minute?

Sounds like a path to nowhere.

Exactly what we've been seeing here in Toronto, year after year.

No success, constant patchwork at the expense of the future.

Same old story.

 

[LaPlante94]

So abandon the avenue entirely?

We have some great players, so never draft in the first and second round again because we have to fill in the holes that the manager didn't plan for in the off-season at the last-minute?

Sounds like a path to nowhere.

Exactly what we've been seeing here in Toronto, year after year.

No success, constant patchwork at the expense of the future.

Same old story.

Yet we have one of the better prospect pools in the entire league. We already know Dubas draft strategy and that is he'll keep trading down and turn 2 or 3 picks into 5 or 6 by the end of the draft and then draft some players on nobodies radar because of an injury or some reason and they end up looking promising.

 

[LeafsNation75]

 

[Bomber0104]

Yet we have one of the better prospect pools in the entire league. We already know Dubas draft strategy and that is he'll keep trading down and turn 2 or 3 picks into 5 or 6 by the end of the draft and then draft some players on nobodies radar because of an injury or some reason and they end up looking promising.

And how's that working out?

He's traded away the majority of his 1st round picks before they could even be traded down.

Muzzin (gone), Foligno (gone), Marleau (gone), ROR...

Where has been the benefit of trading down so far on our roster?

To any outside observer at all, he would have just been better off keeping all of the past year's 1st round picks.

There would have been a crew of prospects breaking down the door pushing guys like Holl, Engvall, Kerfoot, etc. right out of the way on cheap, long-term contracts.

Instead we lost to Columbus and Montreal.

 

[francis246]

The fact that we got O’Rielly without giving up any of our top prospects is incredible.

I have to give Kyle credit for that. On top of that we also get O’Rielly at 75% retained. And we get Noel Accari who will help out our bottom six. This is a win.

Getting Timo Mier would be dumb, we can’t afford that qualifying offer.

Depending on how bad O’Rielly wants to be a maple leaf he could be a Kerfoot replacement next year.

Giving up the first sucks but it’s the price you have to pay to play in the trade market. This team needed to upgrade.

The team is better, you still have Knies, Niemela, Robertson, Holmberg, Hirovinen, Steeves, Anderson on your roster. You can’t hate that at all

 

[LeafsNation75]

This is the third straight season that Kyle Dubas has traded for another teams captain.

2021: Trades for Nick Foligno.

2022: Trades for Mark Giordano.

2023: Trades for Ryan O'Reilly.

 

[Rude Dog]

sure kane is not going to cost another 1st eh?


anyway... see u guys after 1st round

In fairness, wasn’t it you that had the same over reaction on the Douglas / Timmons deal? ROR wasn’t my ideal target but I was extremely worried about center depth if Matty or Tavares went down.

This trade makes this team much harder to play against. I said they had too many of the same guys lower in the lineup. Well they don’t have two guys like the ones they just brought in.

 

[LaPlante94]

And how's that working out?

He's traded away the majority of his 1st round picks before they could even be traded down.

Muzzin (gone), Foligno (gone), Marleau (gone), ROR...

Where has been the benefit of trading down so far on our roster?

To any outside observer at all, he would have just been better off keeping all of the past year's 1st round picks.

There would have been a crew of prospects breaking down the door pushing guys like Holl, Engvall, Kerfoot, etc. right out of the way on cheap, long-term contracts.

Instead we lost to Columbus and Montreal.

Marleau isn't a Dubas problem though. That was a problem Dubas fixed so we could keep our core together ad cost us a 1st round pick to do so. Sure you could say a 1st for Foligno was a bit much, but I'd say that draft wasn't exactly the greatest and most leagues didn't play much so scouting was very limited. We also should've had a easy path to the finals. How are you complaining about Muzzin? He's been our best d man and is out because of injury after we had him for how many years now

 

[Martin Skoula]

So abandon the avenue entirely?

We have some great players, so never draft in the first and second round again because we have to fill in the holes that the manager didn't plan for in the off-season at the last-minute?

Sounds like a path to nowhere.

Exactly what we've been seeing here in Toronto, year after year.

No success, constant patchwork at the expense of the future.

Same old story.

Where are you getting an O’Rielly level player for 1.85 mil in UFA in the offseason? How would off-season planning give you that exactly?

We already have almost no space on the roster for the next wave of prospects already in the system once Knies fills one of the LW spots. If Minten, Niemela, Hirvonen, or any of the lottery tickets that are tracking well have a leap in development this offseason (or Robertson/Amirov get healthy), I have no idea where we would even play them. There’s one middle-6 LW spot available for Knies and maybe a fourth line spot somewhere that Steeves, McMann, and Anderson are already fighting over. Shit there’s barely any room on the Marlies at this point and they hardly have any vets taking up space.

This will be the first draft since 2007 that we don’t pick in the 2nd or higher, and that’s assuming we don’t make any other trades between now and then. Feel free to start the histrionics about trading every pick forever from now on, it’s clearly very important for you to find something to cry about for some reason.

 

[Kiwi]

And how's that working out?

He's traded away the majority of his 1st round picks before they could even be traded down.

Muzzin (gone), Foligno (gone), Marleau (gone), ROR...

Where has been the benefit of trading down so far on our roster?

To any outside observer at all, he would have just been better off keeping all of the past year's 1st round picks.

There would have been a crew of prospects breaking down the door pushing guys like Holl, Engvall, Kerfoot, etc. right out of the way on cheap, long-term contracts.

Instead we lost to Columbus and Montreal.

Ah yes, captain hindsight
The greatest GM that ever lived, never wrong not even once
It's easy to be right after things have already played out

Muzzin played a lot of very good games for us, that wasn't a bad trade
Foligno sucked, got hurt but I wasn't a fan of it at the time
Marleau was him cleaning up somebody else's mess

So 1 miss out of 3, not terrible if I'm being honest

A reasonably strong prospect pool for a team that's been competitive foe over half a decade

So he never should have tried? Just told Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares etc to **** off because management can't be assed trying to win a cup by getting better at the TDL?

No there wouldn't, it takes most prospects years to become useful NHLers
Those weren't top 10 picks, Liljegren was a #17OA and he's only helping out now about 5 years after we drafted him
Your making some extremely unrealistic presumptions

Captain hindsight again, we shouldn't have tried getting better when we had matchups like Montreal and Columbus? Not trying in that situation would have been unacceptable to almost everybody in here

 

[Bomber0104]

Where are you getting an O’Rielly level player for 1.85 mil in UFA in the offseason? How would off-season planning give you that exactly?

We already have almost no space on the roster for the next wave of prospects already in the system once Knies fills one of the LW spots. If Minten, Niemela, Hirvonen, or any of the lottery tickets that are tracking well have a leap in development this offseason (or Robertson/Amirov get healthy), I have no idea where we would even play them. There’s one middle-6 LW spot available for Knies and maybe a fourth line spot somewhere that Steeves, McMann, and Anderson are already fighting over. Shit there’s barely any room on the Marlies at this point and they hardly have any vets taking up space.

This will be the first draft since 2007 that we don’t pick in the 2nd or higher, and that’s assuming we don’t make any other trades between now and then. Feel free to start the histrionics about trading every pick forever from now on, it’s clearly very important for you to find something to cry about for some reason.

Ok, congratulations for describing how you pay 3 draft picks to pay for a rental on a subsidized cap-hit in the absence of any prospects able to help the team...

Does this help the team go from zero round wins, to 4 overnight?

Seems extremely doubtful and even you wouldn't answer if it would.

Big time gamble, and big time chunk of the Leafs' future taken away because of a GM fighting for his career.

If we're honest about the intentions of the trade, I think that'd be a great way to find common ground.

Again I'm just playing devil's advocate. I actually want to see what Keefe can do with another true center...

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

What exactly did Minnesota get outta this trade? They got a 4th rounder, but gave up a former 4th rounder and took on money.

 

[Leaf Fans]

No, it's being done because Nylander and Matthews are both on their 2nd last years before they can walk.

And Dubas doesn't have a contract next year either, most importantly.

It's all in because he's all out of runway with MLSE.

Let's not pretend this move was made for the future of the team in mind,

It was done because he couldn't figure out how to leverage RFA contracts into 8 years, and his job and possibly career is on the line.
[/Q

Dubas is frothing at the mouth to give those up to secure his first-ever, 1st-round.

Ownership wouldn't allow it though, no doubt,

He can do his job. Ownership like won't interefere.

 

[TheGreatOne11]

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOÒÒOOOOOÒOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

LET'S F'ING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Kept the boy wonder hopeful power forward, at least a big body puck hound.


And got the Tim Hortons crasher? Lets gooo boyssss and girlsssss.

It maybe a good draft, but we just got a difference maker. All in. I expect a D coming as well. In the very short future.