Confirmed with Link: Leafs have acquired Ryan O’Reilly, Noel Acciari & Josh Pillar in a three-team trade with STL and MIN

[cyris]

Ok, congratulations for describing how you pay 3 draft picks to pay for a rental on a subsidized cap-hit in the absence of any prospects able to help the team...

Does this help the team go from zero round wins, to 4 overnight?

Seems extremely doubtful and even you wouldn't answer if it would.

Big time gamble, and big time chunk of the Leafs' future taken away because of a GM fighting for his career.

If we're honest about the intentions of the trade, I think that'd be a great way to find common ground.

Again I'm just playing devil's advocate. I actually want to see what Keefe can do with another true center...

So because the Leafs haven’t won a round in the playoffs they can’t win 4 rounds right? That’s what you are saying.

And since they can’t win 4 rounds they shouldn’t try to win any rounds, meaning also they would therefore never be able to win 4 rounds in the playoffs……

 

[Bomber0104]

Ah yes, captain hindsight
The greatest GM that ever lived, never wrong not even once
It's easy to be right after things have already played out

Muzzin played a lot of very good games for us, that wasn't a bad trade
Foligno sucked, got hurt but I wasn't a fan of it at the time
Marleau was him cleaning up somebody else's mess

So 1 miss out of 3, not terrible if I'm being honest

A reasonably strong prospect pool for a team that's been competitive foe over half a decade

So he never should have tried? Just told Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares etc to **** off because management can't be assed trying to win a cup by getting better at the TDL?

No there wouldn't, it takes most prospects years to become useful NHLers
Those weren't top 10 picks, Liljegren was a #17OA and he's only helping out now about 5 years after we drafted him
Your making some extremely unrealistic presumptions

Captain hindsight again, we shouldn't have tried getting better when we had matchups like Montreal and Columbus? Not trying in that situation would have been unacceptable to almost everybody in here

Captain hindsight? I was pretty much dead-set against Dubas getting hired right from the get-go and every failed season along the way has proven me right all along.

I'm entirely consistent.

Trying is fine but there's a way to do that without jeopardizing the future year-after-year.

Any deadline decision is basically an indictment for the GM not doing his homework in the off-season and covering his own mistakes with last-second expensive patchwork moves.

The fact is the Leafs just carved out a huge chunk of their future for yet-to-be-seen results.

So far they've been doing the same with Muzzin/Foligno and it hasn't worked.

This trade and it's results will be either the extension or end of Dubas here in Toronto, and I'm eager to see what happens for sure.

 

[Puckstuff]

If Knies joins

Knies-Matthews-Nylander
Bunting-Tavares-Marner
Kerfoot-ROR-Jarnkrok
Engvall-Kampf-Acciari

 

[Bomber0104]

So because the Leafs haven’t won a round in the playoffs they can’t win 4 rounds right? That’s what you are saying.

And since they can’t win 4 rounds they shouldn’t try to win any rounds, meaning also they would therefore never be able to win 4 rounds in the playoffs……

Statistically very improbable a team goes from zero playoff round wins to a Cup...

It's a hard reality to accept but there's a certain level of experience that seems to be needed to win in the big trophy in the NHL.

Again, would be interesting if the Leafs could defy all odds.

I'll be strapped in and watching all throughout.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

If Knies joins

Knies-Matthews-Nylander
Bunting-Tavares-Marner
Kerfoot-ROR-Jarnkrok
Engvall-Kampf-Acciari

I'd assume we try him there next season but he will only have a couple regular season games after his season is done before the playoffs start. More likely he plays on the fourth line imo.

 

[cyris]

Statistically very improbable a team goes from zero playoff round wins to a Cup...

It's a hard reality to accept but there's a certain level of experience that seems to be needed to win in the big trophy in the NHL.

Again, would be interesting if the Leafs could defy all odds.

I'll be strapped in and watching all throughout.

Okay…..
If we have to win rounds in the playoffs before we can win the cup shouldn’t we try everything we can to do that then?

It like you are saying because we haven’t won a round yet it’s impossible to win 4. And because it’s impossible to win 4 we shouldn’t try to win any. It’s coming off as a defeatist attitude

 

[Kiwi]

Captain hindsight? I was pretty much dead-set against Dubas getting hired right from the get-go and every failed season along the way has proven me right all along.

I'm entirely consistent.

Trying is fine but there's a way to do that without jeopardizing the future year-after-year.

Any deadline decision is basically an indictment for the GM not doing his homework in the off-season and covering his own mistakes with last-second expensive patchwork moves.

The fact is the Leafs just carved out a huge chunk of their future for yet-to-be-seen results.

So far they've been doing the same with Muzzin/Foligno and it hasn't worked.

This trade and it's results will be either the extension or end of Dubas here in Toronto, and I'm eager to see what happens for sure.

Oh yes, I'd like you to tell me how you try and don't give up assets

So UFA, most teams suck, build through the draft and supplement there team with UFA'S, they don't build the majority of the team with them though

That's what every team does at the TDL if they think they have a chance of winning, only one team can win but that doesn't mean you shouldn't at least try to add because the odds aren't in your favor

All GM's do this at the TDL if they have a good team

 

[Bomber0104]

Okay…..
If we have to win rounds in the playoffs before we can win the cup shouldn’t we try everything we can to do that then?

It like you are saying because we haven’t won a round yet it’s impossible to win 4. And because it’s impossible to win 4 we shouldn’t try to win any. It’s coming off as a defeatist attitude

The Leafs can’t “try” to win a round without throwing away a package of picks for a rental player?

Never occurred to me this roster wasn’t already “trying”

I guess now they really are..

Usually they just do a first round pick but now they’re doing that AND a second and fourth so actually you may be right..

They’re REALLY going for that first round win this time around.

 

[tokyoite]

giving up high draft picks sounds bad to me.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

The Leafs can’t “try” to win a round without throwing away a package of picks for a rental player?

Never occurred to me this roster wasn’t already “trying”

I guess now they really are..

Usually they just do a first round pick but now they’re doing that AND a second and fourth so actually you may be right..

They’re REALLY going for that first round win this time around.

Get some rest bud.

 

[tokyoite]

if o'reilly fails, who will take the blame ?
dubas or yea sayers ?

 

[rojac]

What exactly did Minnesota get outta this trade? They got a 4th rounder, but gave up a former 4th rounder and took on money.

My guess is that Pillar is probably not panning out so they essentially get a do-over.

As for the money, O’Reilly’s salary for this season is only $1M. With approximately 1/3 of the season left, that leaves ~$333K for the rest of the season. Minnesota pays 25% of that, so about $85K.

Minnesota does take on a $1.875M cap hit, but according to CapFriendly, they still have over $12M in deadline cap space after this deal.

 

[Kiwi]

giving up high draft picks sounds bad to me.

That's what good teams do

They trade assets for players so they improve there chances of advancing in the playoffs

This isn't a rebuild, our core is already here

 

[cyris]

The Leafs can’t “try” to win a round without throwing away a package of picks for a rental player?

Never occurred to me this roster wasn’t already “trying”

I guess now they really are..

Usually they just do a first round pick but now they’re doing that AND a second and fourth so actually you may be right..

They’re REALLY going for that first round win this time around.

Lol sure we could have tried with the bottom 6 we had before this trade. We likely would have failed again as it was vastly inferior to the other contending teams including the one we will play in the first round that has been to the finals 3 years in a row.

I guess Colorado was wrong to trade for rentals last year. Cause how likely is it really they could have won a cup after never getting past the second round? Management there was foolish to try to improve that team

 

[deprw]

Statistically very improbable a team goes from zero playoff round wins to a Cup...

It's a hard reality to accept but there's a certain level of experience that seems to be needed to win in the big trophy in the NHL.

Again, would be interesting if the Leafs could defy all odds.

I'll be strapped in and watching all throughout.

It's very improbable to lose those first rounds over and over again. We might try to defy those odds other way around. I'm almost always on board with drafting and developing, but our core is now in their prime and those picks won't help them one bit with the end goal. We drafted Nylander, Marner and Matthews so we can compete for the cup.

It is basically now or maybe next season. Mistakes were made 2017, 2018 and 2019, those players could have played this year. I hate losing four picks, but at least we got difference maker here and hopefully that 1st rounder is 32st pick of the 1st round. If it isn't, who knows what happens.

 

[Puckstuff]

One of the strangest things here is the claim that this is an all in move. The team literally didn't trade a single one of its top 10+ prospects....

All still in house.....

Yes and I don’t care about the 4th.

It’s essentially a late 1st and a late 2nd for O’Reilly at only 1.85 million!! Acciari on a cheap deal and Murray at 4.65 who is on LTIR and his cap may open up more room. This has been brilliant asset management.

 

[TheGreatOne11]

It's a good move. End of story.

Another 1st has people scared, i get it in a sense.

Knies is still a Leaf. And when OR scores a late goal in the playoffs or PREVENTS ONE, we'll all be screaming.

 

[Subway Schenn]

Love this. Huge boost to our depth.

Would be great to have a small improvement on D as well

 

[Cotton]

Marleau isn't a Dubas problem though. That was a problem Dubas fixed so we could keep our core together ad cost us a 1st round pick to do so. Sure you could say a 1st for Foligno was a bit much, but I'd say that draft wasn't exactly the greatest and most leagues didn't play much so scouting was very limited. We also should've had a easy path to the finals. How are you complaining about Muzzin? He's been our best d man and is out because of injury after we had him for how many years now

To be fair, getting rid of Marleau is what allowed us to sign Johnsson and Kapanen to new deals, Marleau wasn't blocking money for a core player. And while Dubas didn't cause that problem to begin with, his solution cost us a very decent prospect, and he ended up trading Johnsson and Kapanen away anyways.

Foligno cost a 1st and a 4th, and he played something like 11 games with us for that.

I agree with you on Muzzin, that was a fair trade and he was an important player when healthy.

 

[deprw]

To be fair, getting rid of Marleau is what allowed us to sign Johnsson and Kapanen to new deals, Marleau wasn't blocking money for a core player. And while Dubas didn't cause that problem to begin with, his solution cost us a very decent prospect, and he ended up trading Johnsson and Kapanen away anyways.

Foligno cost a 1st and a 4th, and he played something like 11 games with us for that.

I agree with you on Muzzin, that was a fair trade and he was an important player when healthy.

It is water under the bridge anyways, but if you look into that Marleau summer you'd realize pretty fast, that we had no leverage back then to trade away Kapanen or Johnsson. They could have been easily snatched with offer sheets, that we couldn't have matched and even after that our defense would have been horrendous. Lou gambled that it would take year or two for our youngsters to really light up the league, but they did it immediately and that Marleau contract became terrible burden. We would have had three AHL defenders and Marleau as 4th liner if we would have kept him. Marleau made trading him as costly as possible.

We would have bled value in Kapanen and Johnsson in a way that would have made it expensive summer anyway. By trading Marleau we controlled our destiny and could made those choices. In other way around those would have been made by other teams.

 

[LaPlante94]

To be fair, getting rid of Marleau is what allowed us to sign Johnsson and Kapanen to new deals, Marleau wasn't blocking money for a core player. And while Dubas didn't cause that problem to begin with, his solution cost us a very decent prospect, and he ended up trading Johnsson and Kapanen away anyways.

Foligno cost a 1st and a 4th, and he played something like 11 games with us for that.

I agree with you on Muzzin, that was a fair trade and he was an important player when healthy.

Marner was a RFA and we wanted to sign Kapanen and Johnsson so we needed all the cap we could get .Yes we did end up trading Kapanen, but it got us a 1st round pick that ended up being just 2 behind our original draft pick that we traded to get rid of Marleaus cap hit. Not Dubas fault the poor kid got a brain tumour after we drafted him. Again with the Foligno trade it may have been a bit too much but it was a weird draft year because some leagues didn't even have a season and the ones that did play didn't play too much and had no scouting in person. I think moving a 1st round pick that year wasn't that big of a loss especially when we should've had the easiest path to the Cup Finals o matter what tbh.

 

[WillyC]

It’s Go Time

 

[bentharbs]

I don't get the logic of "this is a bad deal" from anyone.

Late first is the cost to do any business at all really at the deadline. The rest is meh. Foligno was a huge flop but there isn't really a comparison between Foligno and ROR. ROR is superior in every way. It's a team fit, clearly. Also got some decent depth in the deal.

I just question where this puts Kerfoot/Kerfoots salary at the deadline.

Good deal for the leafs, everyone will only know if it's a success come Tampa.

2021: Foligno massssssive bust
2022: Giordano objective win
2023: ROR TBD

Let's hope Dubas turns that .500 into a .667.

 

[Hellcat]

Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!

..but then again Dubas would have no way of knowing what happens when you trade a 1st rounder for a player with rapidly declining skills. Absolutely stupid trade.

I guess Dubas needed someone to push up his LTIR for the rest of the season.

Folks if you think you are getting Stanley Cup MVP ROR, reset your expectations to 15 notches lower. ROR career is over cooked.

 

[WillyC]

Kyle showing Auston we’re serious about winning the Cup before he resigns him to an 8 year deal.