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Confirmed with Link: Leafs have acquired Ryan O’Reilly, Noel Acciari & Josh Pillar in a three-team trade with STL and MIN

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Martin Skoula said:
Anyone that’s going to help out this team before all of Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares’ contracts expire is already in the system, whoever you draft this year won’t be a factor until 2025 at the earliest. The only problem with giving up the picks is that next year would have been a better all-in year with Boston and Tampa getting older and running thin on resources to use at the deadline.
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Do you see what's wrong with that though?

Why do we feel we have to burn as much draft capital before those two seasons?

If this is truly all in, then what happens after?

Are you resigned to the fact that some of those guys are leaving and it has to be done now? Is Dubas?

Hope not.

Maybe they should have been signed for 8 years instead of 5-6?

(Lightbuld on moment)
 
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We have Matthews, Nylander and Marner in there primes and Tavares is still a PPG center
I get that people love draft picks but if we're not going to go for it now, when are We?

We haven't had a core this good for decades, were a good defensive team and both of our goaltenders are having good seasons (when healthy)

The objective is to win the cup, not accumulating more assets than your competitors

Those picks may end up being good players, they may not but those guys won't be helping us for years and who knows where we will be then

If ever there was a time to burn the boats this is it, I don't want to look back at this core and think "what might have been"
 
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BertCorbeau said:

NHL and WHA Team Draft Lists at Hockeydb.com

www.hockeydb.com

Swing and a miss

Tampa didn't have a first in 2021 and 2020, in 2018, in 2015
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Alright so counting this season they would have had 4 it’s we will have 1
BertCorbeau said:

NHL and WHA Team Draft Lists at Hockeydb.com

www.hockeydb.com

Swing and a miss

Tampa didn't have a first in 2021 and 2020, in 2018, in
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Cotton said:
I thought he didn't want to part with a 1st for a rental? I like that add, I just hope there is a reasonably priced extension coming.
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He’s only kept it once in the last 5 years now, seems every year recently was the all in year.
 
Cotton said:
I thought he didn't want to part with a 1st for a rental? I like that add, I just hope there is a reasonably priced extension coming.
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An extension is absolutely imperative to this deal being worthwhile.

Not to knock the deal, just as an aside, but to me this is another example of Dubas paying full value (++) in trade.
 
Bomber0104 said:
Do you see what's wrong with that though?

Why do we feel we have to burn as much draft capital before those two seasons?

If this is truly all in, then what happens after?

Are you resigned to the fact that some of those guys are leaving and it has to be done now?

Maybe they should have been signed for 8 years instead of 5-6?

(Lightbuld on moment)
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Signing them for 8 years wouldn’t make Tavares any less 34 going on 35 in two years. If the plan is to try to win through overwhelming teams with center depth you’re not going to get a better shot than this year and next. You’re getting all of their best years right now, setting aside draft capital now to potentially compliment Matthews, Marner, and Nylander through their late 20s/early 30s is a weird priority when they’re in their primes now.
 
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The only bad thing about this trade is Kane will somehow magically end up in Tampa now.
 
TribalPhoenix said:
Fundamentally, regardless of if it's the eye test or the analytics, it comes down to forecasting. And forecasting is all about controlling (to the best of your abilities) as many variables as possible. And each variable is subject to its own variables, and thus you need to learn not to major on the minors.

I sat next to the London guys at a few tournaments, mostly the Dufton tournament in London.

Most impressive takeaway was how Dale Hunter can have huge conversations during a game where it's not like he's paying attention, but then he'll break down a play in granular detail like he was analyzing it with a microscope.
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I only met Dale in the coaches room post-game, refs included lol. Simultaneously shook and nearly broke my hand, handed me a BL, shot the shit with him for a minute, went back into the room to get over the shell-shock, didn't realize I was talking to Dave Bolland who was also hanging out for Mem Cup lol

Anyways, good chat. Hope you liked my posts. Feel free to PM me if you want to chat some more, this is getting side-tracked from this discussion a lot.
 
Bomber0104 said:
I only met Dale in the coaches room, refs included. Simultaneously shook and broke my hand, handed me a BL, shot the shit with him for a minute, went back into the room to get over the shell-shock, didn't realize I was talking to Dave Bolland who was also hanging out for Mem Cup lol

Anyways, good chat. Hope you liked my posts. Feel free to PM me if you want to chat some more, this is getting side-tracked from this discussion a lot.
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Great posts, and thanks for the memories. Drop me a note if you like as well; if you thought Dale was bad, try Warren Rychel. I've seen power equipment with fewer PSI than that guys hands.
 
Knies iT said:
An extension is absolutely imperative to this deal being worthwhile.

Not to knock the deal, just as an aside, but to me this is another example of Dubas paying full value (++) in trade.
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What is 50% and 75% retention worth?

I would agree wholeheartedly if this was the trade without retention. But that isn't the case.

In any event, I think that ROR is the perfect add for this team, and Acciari is a pest. Just became that much tougher to play against.
 
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Martin Skoula said:
Signing them for 8 years wouldn’t make Tavares any less 34 going on 35 in two years. If the plan is to try to win through overwhelming teams with center depth you’re not going to get a better shot than this year and next. You’re getting all of their best years right now, setting aside draft capital now to potentially compliment Matthews, Marner, and Nylander through their late 20s/early 30s is a weird priority when they’re in their primes now.
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No, it's being done because Nylander and Matthews are both on their 2nd last years before they can walk.

And Dubas doesn't have a contract next year either, most importantly.

It's all in because he's all out of runway with MLSE.

Let's not pretend this move was made for the future of the team in mind,

It was done because he couldn't figure out how to leverage RFA contracts into 8 years, and his job and possibly career is on the line.
 
yubbers said:
So Washingtons backup who's 1-6 in playoff games is who we're rolling with? Ooof.

At least I like O'Reilly.
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Boston is rolling with Ullmark who has never won a playoff game and a guy who has a .500 win percentage in the playoffs. Though past results have no barring on the present.
 
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It’s interesting to see people talking about O’Reilly’s injury history. He missed 14 games this year. But since the start of 2016-2017 season, he has only missed 29 games. During that same time period, Auston Matthews missed 54 games and Mitch Marner missed 26 games.

Over his NHL career, O’Reilly has missed 71 games in his ~13 2/3 years (about 5.2 games per season).
 
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Bomber0104 said:
No, it's being done because Nylander and Matthews are both on their 2nd last years before they can walk.

And Dubas doesn't have a contract next year either, most importantly.

It's all in because he's all out of runway with MLSE.

Let's not pretend this move was made for the future of the team in mind,

It was done because he couldn't figure out how to leverage RFA contracts into 8 years, and his job and possibly career is on the line.
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Ok lol. If you think we have better odds of winning in 2025 with a 35 year old Tavares, 32 year old Rielly, and a D+2 27th overall pick kicking around on the 3rd pair/3rd line that’s certainly an opinion. Even if the 3 were signed to 8 year deals they wouldn’t be better than they are now in 2025 unless they’re really really late bloomers for some reason. This years team is better than the 25 team regardless of contracts unless you want to go through Boston’s late 2010s missing the playoffs, picking in the teens, and praying the kids age as gracefully as Bergeron and Marchand did, or bottoming out like Colorado did to get Makar.

Holding on to picks or packaging them for bigger names with term made sense instead of Foligno/Marleau when those assets would have lined up with the big 3’s prime 24-27 years, doing it now is absurd.
 
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Confucius said:
Not true Tampa has had a 1st round pick 20 plus years straight, meanwhile since we gave up this year’s we will have had 1 in the last 5 drafts…
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BertCorbeau said:

NHL and WHA Team Draft Lists at Hockeydb.com

www.hockeydb.com

Swing and a miss

Tampa didn't have a first in 2021 and 2020, in 2018, in 2015
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TB also has no 1st round pick in 2023 and 2024 (Hagel), and when TB did draft in the 1st round they traded away the player soon after in 2014 (DeAngelo), 2016 (Howden), 2019 (N. Foote). As well as 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, the player was eventually traded away after not developing (Connelly, Namestnikov, Koekkoek) or returning a similar prospect - Drouin for Sergachev). Their 1st round draft record in the last 12 years is pretty bad, only Vasilevskiy to show for in that time. Even if they kept all those aformetioned players they traded away, they still haven't amounted to anything, or are a team cancer = DeAngelo.
 
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Martin Skoula said:
Ok lol. If you think we have better odds of winning in 2025 with a 35 year old Tavares, 32 year old Rielly, and a D+2 27th overall pick kicking around on the 3rd pair/3rd line that’s certainly an opinion. Even if the 3 were signed to 8 year deals they wouldn’t be better than they are now in 2025 unless they’re really really late bloomers for some reason. This years team is better than the 25 team regardless of contracts unless you want to go through Boston’s late 2010s missing the playoffs, picking in the teens, and praying the kids age as gracefully as Bergeron and Marchand did, or bottoming out like Colorado did to get Makar.

Holding on to picks or packaging them for bigger names with term made sense instead of Foligno/Marleau when those assets would have lined up with the big 3’s prime 24-27 years, doing it now is absurd.
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Do you actually think the Leafs can go from winning zero rounds, their first since 2004, to four, with this roster including this trade?

Yes or no.

Otherwise this is just splurging to attempt to get over a self-invented first-round obstacle.
 
So, I grew up with Ryan and Cal playing hockey. He got drafted by his favourite team so unless his views have changed in the years since I wouldn't be expecting a sweetheart deal.
 
Menzinger said:
One of the strangest things here is the claim that this is an all in move. The team literally didn't trade a single one of its top 10+ prospects....

All still in house.....
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What if the Leafs don't have great prospects in the first place though?

Knies, surely.

A lot of teams have at least a Knies waiting in the wings.
 
Bomber0104 said:
Do you actually think the Leafs can go from winning zero rounds, their first since 2004, to four, with this roster including this trade?

Yes or no.
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Better odds of doing it now than 2 years from now. Might as well trade everyone worth anything and start from scratch if you’re planning around 2025.

Why are you so upset about losing a potential Sandin 2 years from now? Wouldn’t Dumbass just waste the first on another 5’5 midget anyway?
 
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