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GDT: Leafs @ Habs - 7pm

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4thline said:
Someone has to go to be cap compliant when healthy and he's the highest leverage piece
Engvall out -> ZAR in = compliant 21 man roster, no room for a spare, next to no accrual
Holl out -> no one in = compliant 20 man roster, 720k in cap space to accrue for spot spare use, potentially some accrual (but unlikely)
Kerfoot out -> ZAR in = compliant 21 man roster, room for a call up F when needed, able to accrue deadlines space

Is Kerfoot better enough than Engvall to justify that tradeoff? Is he so good that he's worth essentially guaranteeing Benn/Mete see ~40 games, and that we *need* to add a solid depth defender?
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Engvall is addition by subtraction by taking him away from Keefe.

2nd most used forward in the playoffs 5v5 even though he was crap outside of beating up the empty net. People will probably faint when they read that. Don't know how Keefe still has a job following that after over using Thornton and Simmonds in a 3-1 choke. Engvalls raise explains why he still has a job actually.
 
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Hoglund4MvP said:
Engvall is addition by subtraction by taking him away from Keefe.

2nd most used forward in the playoffs 5v5 even though he was crap outside of beating up the empty net. People will probably faint when they read that. Don't know how Keefe still has a job following that after over using Thornton and Simmonds in a 3-1 choke. Engvalls raise explains why he still has a job actually.
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2nd most used forward, as in more than Matthews or Marner?

That's terrible if true.
 
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IPS said:
2nd most used forward, as in more than Matthews or Marner?

That's terrible if true.
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They'll say Marners ice time is towards PK and PP, that's why he's not no.2 behind Matthews in 5v5 ice time.

Then they'll say Engvall is important to the PK and a good depth player.

Then they'll play dead and disappear or resort to sarcasm to defend Keefe when you say the smart move is to increase PK time of others, who they said are valuable to the PK, so that Marner can decrease his pk and increase his 5v5 time, since the team best at 5v5 during the series probably ends up winning the series when the two teams are equal. Marner, Nylander, Kerfoot, Jt etc increase your odds of this over Engvall I would think.
 
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i get that malgin is having a good preseason, and maybe the time he spent overseas has helped him, but its preseason. every year there are these types of stories and the vast majority of the time it doesnt show up in the regular season.
if they believe he is ready, i take a kid with robertsons potential over malgin everyday of the week and twice on sundays.

malgin has played nearly 200 nhl games over 5 seasons. he avgs roughly 11 goals a year so far.
time to see what robertson is, im pretty sure we all know what malgin is already.
 
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Hoglund4MvP said:
They'll say Marners ice time is towards PK and PP, that's why he's not no.2 behind Matthews in 5v5 ice time.

Then they'll say Engvall is important to the PK and a good depth player.

Then they'll play dead and disappear or resort to sarcasm to defend Keefe when you say the smart move is to increase PK time of others, who they said are valuable to the PK, so that Marner can decrease his pk and increase his 5v5 time, since the team best at 5v5 during the series probably ends up winning the series when the two teams are equal. Marner, Nylander, Kerfoot, Jt etc increase your odds of this over Engvall I would think.
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Overall, our top 4 guys played the most minutes. Kampf and Mikheyev were close to them (mostly due to PK minutes themselves), but Matthews/Marner/Tavares/Nylander were used the most by a fair margin.

Marner played something like 60 more minutes than Engvall overall. Engvall playing less than 2 minutes more than Marner and maybe 5 minutes more than Tavares/Nylander at 5-on-5 is not that big of a deal. It was no different for Tampa and Colorado either, where Hagel, Killorn, and Cirelli played more 5-on-5 than Stamkos or Nichushkin played more than Landeskog and Rantanen (more than Rantanen by a lot too).
 
Hoglund4MvP said:
Engvall is addition by subtraction by taking him away from Keefe.
2nd most used forward in the playoffs 5v5
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Engvall is definitely not addition by subtraction.
It should be noted that you specifically used 5v5 because it put him 2nd (by 1 second, and within 13 seconds of multiple others), instead of 5th by ES TOI/GP or 8th by overall TOI/GP.
It should also be noted that the only reason he has that ranking 5v5 is because of the game situations we found ourselves in. There were significant portions of time through games 1-4 where the game was pretty much decided one way or the other (3-0 Leafs less than halfway through game one, 5-1 Tampa early 3rd period in game two, 3-0 Leafs early 2nd period of game three, 5-0 Tampa early 2nd period of game 4), and our top guys were playing a ton of PP time (not to mention the 26 minutes of non-5v5 even strength time), so the 3rd line got the most 5v5 time those games, which is pretty normal. In the games that were actually close like games 5-7 and with the PP time drying up a bit, Engvall was 8th in 5v5 time.
 
djdev said:
i get that malgin is having a good preseason, and maybe the time he spent overseas has helped him, but its preseason. every year there are these types of stories and the vast majority of the time it doesnt show up in the regular season.
if they believe he is ready, i take a kid with robertsons potential over malgin everyday of the week and twice on sundays.

malgin has played nearly 200 nhl games over 5 seasons. he avgs roughly 11 goals a year so far.
time to see what robertson is, im pretty sure we all know what malgin is already.
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Based on the comments about him for much of the last two years, it seems like we all (or mostly all) know nothing about Malgin.

This preseason isn't an anomaly for him. This is what he has been doing for the past two years in the NLA and against high level competition in international tournaments. He deserves a proper and extended look in a middle-6 role; something he has not really received in his career thus far.

Or are we writing off a guy who maybe only paced 25 points per year but did so as a 20-22 year old in the NHL?

The Leafs can afford to have patience with Robertson. He probably can play in an NHL lineup right now, just like many other guys who will likely end up on the Marlies this year, but he is waiver exempt and hasn't played a ton of games at any level the past few years. Give Malgin something like 30-35 games and if he sucks, then we can just as easily dump Malgin and give a chance to Robertson (or someone else) after he has had a few months in the AHL. We can't do it the other way around; Malgin is gone if he hits waivers.
 
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SeaOfBlue said:
Based on the comments about him for much of the last two years, it seems like we all (or mostly all) know nothing about Malgin.

This preseason isn't an anomaly for him. This is what he has been doing for the past two years in the NLA and against high level competition in international tournaments. He deserves a proper and extended look in a middle-6 role; something he has not really received in his career thus far.

Or are we writing off a guy who maybe only paced 25 points per year but did so as a 20-22 year old in the NHL?

The Leafs can afford to have patience with Robertson. He probably can play in an NHL lineup right now, just like many other guys who will likely end up on the Marlies this year, but he is waiver exempt and hasn't played a ton of games at any level the past few years. Give Malgin something like 30-35 games and if he sucks, then we can just as easily dump Malgin and give a chance to Robertson (or someone else) after he has had a few months in the AHL. We can't do it the other way around; Malgin is gone if he hits waivers.
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im not writing anyone off, im saying given the choice i take robertson everytime given what hes shown so far and his age, ties to the leafs etc. malgin has had more than 2 full seasons in the nhl and hasnt exactly impressed. like i said, maybe hes changed and improved, i dont know enough about his past few seasons to really know. in a perfect world we trade engvall and give ourselves some wiggle room.
 
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Teeder Keon said:
The AHL and the euro leagues are littered with Malginesque players .
Also , what’s going on with some of us ??
Wtf do we need Malgin in the playoffs ?
That’s our status now and I’m all for it .
It’s about winning a round , 2 , 3 and of course , The S Lord that’s it !
Players like Malgin do not get us there .
Of course you take Robertson , not only for the way he’s played and you must reward that or our organization and player development means nothing !!!
It’s a awesome thing to have this competition, but pleeeeeeeease you can let Malgin go
We have other options you know that are tools more suited for our needs as a team in our organization now and in the POs
Also …
In the playoffs we have MKnies joining then what ?
LW
Bunting
Knies
Robertson
4th line pickem
GLG
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How is it, players "like" Malgin don't get us there?

I mean, he was what... second in scoring in the playoffs last year in the NL, followed by being tops on the Swiss team at the World Championship, out scoring Hischier by 50%, Suter and Meier too. Second highest PPG in the World Championship as well. Are you suggesting he's not a playoff, or big game performer?

Based on what?
 
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Bruh, how are so many people here automatically buying into that assertion that Engvall was our second most used forward?

We could just look at hockey reference and see that you're watched that entire 7 game series while on some hallucinogens and are completely making it up in your mind.

How do people act so confidentially wrong in a world where you can look up every bit of objective information on the Internet?

Screenshot_20221004-122817_Brave.jpg
 
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djdev said:
im not writing anyone off, im saying given the choice i take robertson everytime given what hes shown so far and his age, ties to the leafs etc. malgin has had more than 2 full seasons in the nhl and hasnt exactly impressed. like i said, maybe hes changed and improved, i dont know enough about his past few seasons to really know. in a perfect world we trade engvall and give ourselves some wiggle room.
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Which is the point... others have paid attention. Throwing him to the bin at this point would be foolish... and personally I think Robertson is better, but at least get some value out of Malgin.

Nah, you don't trade Engvall, he's actually a pretty good player, has good size, and is effective on the PK. His offensive numbers are pretty good for the minutes he plays too.
 
TheRumble said:
Bruh, how are so many people here automatically buying into that assertion that Engvall was our second most used forward?

We could just look at hockey reference and see that you're watched that entire 7 game series while on some hallucinogens and are completely making it up in your mind.

How do people act so confidentially wrong in a world where you can look up every bit of objective information on the Internet?

View attachment 590749
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His comment was second most used 5v5 not all situations

Not that I agree we lost due to Engvall. Loss was due to offense not doing enough, defensive breakdowns on both goals, and below average goaltending on the two goals
 
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Hoglund4MvP said:
Engvall is addition by subtraction by taking him away from Keefe.

2nd most used forward in the playoffs 5v5 even though he was crap outside of beating up the empty net. People will probably faint when they read that. Don't know how Keefe still has a job following that after over using Thornton and Simmonds in a 3-1 choke. Engvalls raise explains why he still has a job actually.
Click to expand...

Engvall was 5th in EV TOI for forwards in the playoffs per NHL.com .. not sure where this second most used forward comes from
 
djdev said:
i get that malgin is having a good preseason, and maybe the time he spent overseas has helped him, but its preseason. every year there are these types of stories and the vast majority of the time it doesnt show up in the regular season.
if they believe he is ready, i take a kid with robertsons potential over malgin everyday of the week and twice on sundays.

malgin has played nearly 200 nhl games over 5 seasons. he avgs roughly 11 goals a year so far.
time to see what robertson is, im pretty sure we all know what malgin is already.
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Except for the fact Malgin's still only 25, and he was 23 when he left the NHL to play the last 2 seasons in Switzerland.

Fun fact, he led the Swiss in each category with 5G, 7A, and 12 points in the World Championships for the only unbeaten team in the round robin, 4 points clear of Timo Meier, Nico Hischier, and Pius Suter......all NHL regulars.

He's an NHL player, he was an NHL player, and he's better than he was before. Time to stop giving away players that go on to have success elsewhere. The Leafs need depth, and depth scoring. Showing chemistry with top-6 players is what the Leafs have been missing. We can't count on Robertson either, as he's had a major injury each of the past 2 seasons.

Tough call but as I hear it.....Keefe is very non-committal on Robertson, which is exactly as he should be. The posters on here are swooning over 2 preseason games by Robertson while simultaneously saying about Malgin's scoring that "it's only preseason games, and he is what he is". Truth is, without giving Malgin a shot, we have no idea what he is.....the only thing we know is that he's not the 8 game sample size of when he played here before. Plus Malgin is a more complete forward at this point.
 
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Hoglund is correct engvall had the 2nd most 5v5 time.

But 5th most EV time.
 
Green Snow Storm said:
Robertson getting sent down would be very bad for optics and probably upset the player and his agent as well. He deserves to be on this team period.
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It is what it is. Cap strapped team and he’s waiver eligible. He’ll get his chance. Other good teams will be doing the same with their waiver eligible players.

Having him as a depth option that they can send up and down till they figure out if Malgin and others can play is good. Sucks for Robertson but team first.
 
Hoglund is a solid poster the bullying i always see when he posts is so childish. His supporting arguments always check out that I don't even bother to verify anything he says anymore.
 
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