Friedman: Leafs do not see Marner making more than Kane

[BB88]

That's debateable! Mathews does more than fill nets and rack up points. If Matthews played a full season he would have eclipsed Marners 94 points. To top it all off Matthews was the best player in the playoffs.

That's not quaranteed by no means and it was just a 1 round and few games on that round, and Marner was by far the better player in last years playoffs.

It's funny how these views change to suite the purpose.
Massive hype untill the talk turns into contracts.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

e cannot have another player making almost 12 million per year, regardless of what he wants.

then, don't overpay your other players who got a contract before Mitch ?
That's plain hypocrite, he is your best player and all Toronto fans are saying he should get 9.5 ?


ohhh Toronto, never change please

 

[4thline]

They don't see Marner making more than Kane? I don't think that is crazy.

If we're talking a 5 year deal at $10.5m then I can easily see that happening. Marner would be crazy to take 8 years at that price after the deal that Matthews signed.

If we're talking offer sheets? People need to realise how high the numbers are getting to get the four 1st round picks. There is a decent chance that a 5 year deal at $10.5m would be in the second highest compensation bracket this summer (two 1sts, a 2nd & a 3rd). A 4 year deal in that range would make sense for both sides, should a GM be willing to go down the road of an offer sheet.

I really think that the upper bound on that 2nd highest comp level is going to play a pivotal role in setting this contract. 10.xx + slight premium by 6 years.

 

[Spirit of 67]

I will quote you and in 3-5 months I will reply to you with this exact post.
Can't wait

Only if you're right though, correct?
If you're wrong, it will be crickets I suspect.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

no way he makes a penny less than Matthews

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Only if you're right though, correct?
If you're wrong, it will be crickets I suspect.

bunch of hypocrite for not wanting to pay your best player when it suits you.

 

[Nizdizzle]

then, don't overpay your other players who got a contract before Mitch ?
That's plain hypocrite, he is your best player and all Toronto fans are saying he should get 9.5 ?


ohhh Toronto, never change please

Sometimes you have to face reality. Mitch is a winger who doesn't score a ton of goals. Great player, but not worth $12-mill. If he thinks otherwise, I'm sure there are a few teams willing to take him off the Leafs hands.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

If they want to keep him under 10.5M I don't see them getting 7-8 years from him. 6 year 60 million seems reasonable but they really shot themselves in the foot with the Mathews deal. Marner's been their best player two seasons in a row now. If your his agent how do you reconcile getting your client less money then a player on his team that he's outscored two years in a row? Not to mention Dubas has showed his hand with his remarks regarding how they can't make any other roster decisions until they get Marner done.

 

[Tripod]

That's debateable! Mathews does more than fill nets and rack up points. If Matthews played a full season he would have eclipsed Marners 94 points. To top it all off Matthews was the best player in the playoffs.

Matthews was on pace for 88 points, so you have no proof of that. Also, you are saying that Marner should be punished, for staying healthy. Marner's points were real, Matthews is shoulda, coulda, woulda.

Again, if you pay Marner off his season, the same rate that you paid Nylander off his, it's 10.7 million for Marner. That is the absolute lowest I would take if I was Marner.

Pay him 11x7. That's less money than Matthews, and more term. You make your stars happy, save the money on easily replaceable players.

 

[Torontoborn]

That's not quaranteed by no means and it was just a 1 round and few games on that round, and Marner was by far the better player in last years playoffs.

It's funny how these views change to suite the purpose.
Massive hype untill the talk turns into contracts.

No massive hype! Matthews is the better player period and plays the harder position oh wait and he also plays with 2 young 20 something players on his wings oh yeah and was rookie of the year. Marner will and should fall in between Nylander and Matthews around 10m per.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Sometimes you have to face reality. Mitch is a winger who doesn't score a ton of goals. Great player, but not worth $12-mill. If he thinks otherwise, I'm sure there are a few teams willing to take him off the Leafs hands.

An elite/franchise playmaker winger who can play PP and PK and who commits every nights ? Also potential for 100p+

Sign him up in MTL for 11.5M any day.

 

[The S5]

Wonderboy Dubas has lots of work to do this summer.
Has Marner, unequivocally, stated that he would not entertain outside offers? Leafs need to be careful. They don't want their best player, according to Leaf fans, feeling like he got a raw deal.
For now, this team is extremely top heavy. They should look at the teams still playing for some guidance on winning in the playoffs.

 

[Dooble08]

Why is anyone mentioning Evander Kane in here? Marner and Matthews aren't comparable due to position and style of game. But Dubas made a huge mistake by signing Matthews for 11.6 million based on potential. Marner has the numbers to prove he is worth close to that number. They should have signed him for 8 last season when that's what the asking price was from his camp.

 

[The S5]

No massive hype! Matthews is the better player period and plays the harder position oh wait and he also plays with 2 young 20 something players on his wings oh yeah and was rookie of the year. Marner will and should fall in between Nylander and Matthews around 10m per.

Reading through many GDT on the Leafs board, you would never know that Matthews was their best player. The fans were all over the guy. On the other hand, it was a continuous Marner lover fest.

 

[4thline]

An elite/franchise playmaker winger who can play PP and PK and who commits every nights ? Also potential for 100p+

Sign him up in MTL for 11.5M any day.

Forfeit the picks and go right ahead.
If not, you're not willing to offer that contract under the rules of the CBA.
If no one is then that is the market speaking

 

[Torontoborn]

Matthews was on pace for 88 points, so you have no proof of that. Also, you are saying that Marner should be punished, for staying healthy. Marner's points were real, Matthews is shoulda, coulda, woulda.

Again, if you pay Marner off his season, the same rate that you paid Nylander off his, it's 10.7 million for Marner. That is the absolute lowest I would take if I was Marner.

Pay him 11x7. That's less money than Matthews, and more term. You make your stars happy, save the money on easily replaceable players.

Mitch Marner: Right Winger
Career:

241

67

157

224

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Auston Matthews Center
Career:

212

111

94

205

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

In 3 seasons Matthews is the better player and will only get better. Matthews has almost doubled Marners goal total in 29 less game not to mention 19 less points. Not to mention with a so called bad playoffs last year Marner only has 4 more points total over the last 3 playoffs.

 

[Nizdizzle]

An elite/franchise playmaker winger who can play PP and PK and who commits every nights ? Also potential for 100p+

Sign him up in MTL for 11.5M any day.

Sounds good, Leafs will take 4 1st rounders or an equal or greater package in picks/players/prospects.

 

[BlueStorm]

Kane's contract was 15.22% of cap hit when he signed. So it's a nonstarter to try and compare the two at different stages of the career when the Kane deal was signed.

Some Leafs fans will point out Matthews has a better goal/point per game stat.
Marner - 241 games = .929 points per game
Matthews 212 games = .966 points per game $11.6 million

Marner did not walk into the NHL as physically mature as Matthews. He has grown into his body a little better now as he matures so his weight has helped him.

No injury history with Marner and you are paying for potential as much as proven ability at this age. A healthy, 82 game, Matthews as a big centre is worth more than Marner. However, the injury history of AM brings his value down. It doesn't matter if he averages 2 points per game, if he's only there 41 games he's contributing at a point per game to the team's success.
Dubas screwed the team by handing out the $45 million contract to Nylander. Say what you want but over 6 years that contract is $7.514 million per season and Nylander got to take 28 games off in the first year of his deal. If you boil the contract down to pay per game Nylander makes $97,175/game. He should have played 492 games over the 6 year life of the contract but he can only play 464 max because he sat out the first 28 games. This puts the average of the contract to $7.968 million per year over 6 years. I know the cap hit is 6.9 but Marner's agent is looking at the total value over 6 years not the cap loophole that allows you to front load the first year and reduce the average later.
So you have Matthews at $11.634 over 5 years(14.63% cap), Nylander at $7.514 over 6 years (9.5% cap) 10.1% cap hit if you factor in pay per game starting Dec 1, 2018. If you put Marner right in the middle at 12.065% he gets paid $10.013 million. Can anyone argue Marner is right in the middle talent and potential wise as Matthews and Nylander? I highly doubt it. At 75% of the difference between these two contracts Marner comes in at 13.3475% of the cap or $11.078 million. Dubas can't successfully argue that he over-valued Nylander and paid him too much and ask for a mulligan. Dubas signed Matthews knowing he has past injuries that are most likely due to poor shoulders that run in his family. What are the chances Matthews goes 5 more years withour surgery or another shoulder injury?

New cap hit $83 million

Matthews is at 14.63% of the cap when he signed = $11.634 million
Marner signs at 14% of the new cap = $11.62 million
13.5% = $11.2 m
13.25% = $11 m

I don't see him settling for less than $11m.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

ITT Leafs fans talk mad shit about their leading scorer in order to save money

 

[Nizdizzle]

Kane's contract was 15.22% of cap hit when he signed. So it's a nonstarter to try and compare the two at different stages of the career when the Kane deal was signed.

Some Leafs fans will point out Matthews has a better goal/point per game stat.
Marner - 241 games = .929 points per game
Matthews 212 games = .966 points per game $11.6 million

Marner did not walk into the NHL as physically mature as Matthews. He has grown into his body a little better now as he matures so his weight has helped him.

No injury history with Marner and you are paying for potential as much as proven ability at this age. A healthy, 82 game, Matthews as a big centre is worth more than Marner. Dubas screwed the team by handing out the $45 million contract to Nylander. Say what you want but over 6 years that contract is $7.514 million per season and Nylander got to take 28 games off in the first year of his deal. I know the cap hit is 6.9 but Marner's agent is looking at the total value over 6 years not the cap loophole that allows you to front load the first year and reduce the average later.
So you have Matthews at $11.634 over 5 years(14.63% cap), Nylander at $7.514 over 6 years (9.5% cap). If you put Marner right in the middle at 12.065% he gets paid $10.013 million. Can anyone argue Marner is right in the middle talent and potential wise as Matthews and Nylander? I highly doubt it. At 75% of the difference between these two contracts Marner comes in at 13.3475% of the cap or $11.078 million. Dubas can't successfully argue that he over-valued Nylander and paid him too much and ask for a mulligan. Dubas signed Matthews knowing he has past injuries that are most likely due to poor shoulders that run in his family. What are the chances Matthews goes 5 more years withour surgery or another shoulder injury?

New cap hit $83 million

Matthews is at 14.63% of the cap when he signed = $11.634 million
Marner signs at 14% of the new cap = $11.62 million
13.5% = $11.2 m
13.25% = $11 m

I don't see him settling for less than $11m.

This is a matter of you not understanding how the cap works. There is no cap loophole at work here. Nylander doesn't get paid for portion of the season he missed, so thats why the cap hit is lower than if he had played the full season.

Nylander missed ~32% of the season, so only gets paid ~68% of the $10-million base salary in his first year. $6.8 base + $2 signing bonus means he makes $8.8 million in his first year. Add that to the $33-million over the next 5 years and divide by the total number of years on the contract (6 years) and you get his cap hit.

There is no loophole. Simply money paid over the contact divided by years of the contract.

 

[qqaz]

I think some fans are more happy about a potentially difficult cap situation for Toronto than they would be to watch their own team win a playoff series. I really do.

The hate is unbelievable. It's like some fans hate the Leafs more than they ever actually liked hockey.

 

[93gilmour93]

Toronto fans were freaking annoying to the point of muting them when you got Tavares last summer.
The hate is justified

Those damn leafs fans getting excited over the biggest UFA signing in NHL history after going through a stretch of 1 playoff appearance in 10 years before turning the team around with Matthews/Marner. How dare they enjoy that......

 

[cheswick]

This is a matter of you not understanding how the cap works. There is no cap loophole at work here. Nylander doesn't get paid for portion of the season he missed, so thats why the cap hit is lower than if he had played the full season.

the cap hit for his first season is higher than the remainder of the contract, not lower.

 

[Nizdizzle]

Yeah neither do you. The cap hit for his first season is higher than the remainder of the contract, not lower.

I never said that it was. I said the remaining 6 years were. Please refer to my post where I even did the math for you.

 

[shortfuze]

then, don't overpay your other players who got a contract before Mitch ?
That's plain hypocrite, he is your best player and all Toronto fans are saying he should get 9.5 ?


ohhh Toronto, never change please

As a leafs fan I never said he should get 9.5.