Friedman: Leafs do not see Marner making more than Kane

[SI90]

The cap's gone up what, $11.5m since Kane's contract kicked in?

($83m/$71.4m) * $10.5m = $12.2m

I bet Marner would settle for $12m.

I agree with you that Marner would take $12 per in a heartbeat. I don’t think he gets that much though.

Kane was also a pending UFA at the time IIRC.

I’m so sick of these GMs letting RFAs walk all over them and getting paid like UFAs.

 

[qqaz]

Toronto fans were freaking annoying to the point of muting them when you got Tavares last summer.
The hate is justified

Justified or not (and I certainly don't think it is), don't you find it odd that some fans (a vocal minority, to be sure) would rather see Toronto fail than see their own team succeed?

I have a buddy that is a self proclaimed Habs fan. But he never talks about Montreal games, their players, or anything. He only mocks the Leafs. He actively teased me when Toronto fell to Boston, even though his (supposed) team missed the dance completely. The threads about cup predictions are filled with comments saying "anyone but Toronto".

And here we are in a thread about an incredibly entertaining young star player, and no one writes a single compliment about the guy. No neutral fans popping in just to say they really like watching Marner, or that they wish they had him. No. Nothing but jokes about our stars getting overpaid, and the team being doomed to fall apart. Would it look like this if the thread were about Clayton Keller? Did it look like this for Johnny Gaudreau?

I'm telling you (whether it's justified or not) there is a group of "fans" that hate the Leafs more than they like hockey.

 

[Tripod]

Mitch Marner: Right Winger
Career:

241

67

157

224

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Auston Matthews Center
Career:

212

111

94

205

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

In 3 seasons Matthews is the better player and will only get better. Matthews has almost doubled Marners goal total in 29 less game not to mention 19 less points. Not to mention with a so called bad playoffs last year Marner only has 4 more points total over the last 3 playoffs.

And this year, Marner was better. And had a better PPG. And healthier.

And are you missing the part where I have said repeatedly that Marner will get less money per and sign for more term?

And yup, Matthews had a good playoffs. Now has 13 points in 20 games. Mitch has 17 points in 20 games.

 

[Jeffrey Pedler]

Oh look it's you again!

Matthews (and JT) play center, and are top 5 goal scorers in the NHL (per game wise).
Marner doesn't play center, is not a goal scorer.

Marner does not deserve the same pay because he does not do the two hardest things for a forward to do.



Chris Johnston told us what Dubas will do. He will give them an offer before July 1st and say this is our offer and if you won't consider it then we have to move on because we cannot pay you this. Marner's agents will likely laugh and try to sign an offer sheet. Marner will need to ask himself if he truly wants to leave because that possibility will become real. I think he "caves" (the offer will be fair but he could get more in an open market obviously) because he wants to be a Leaf.

He may not be a goal scorer, but he sets players like Matthews and Tavares up for those goals. He also plays on the PK, which neither Matthews or Tavares do.

 

[cheswick]

Justified or not (and I certainly don't think it is), don't you find it odd that some fans (a vocal minority, to be sure) would rather see Toronto fail than see their own team succeed?

I have a buddy that is a self proclaimed Habs fan. But he never talks about Montreal games, their players, or anything. He only mocks the Leafs. He actively teased me when Toronto fell to Boston, even though his (supposed) team missed the dance completely. The threads about cup predictions are filled with comments saying "anyone but Toronto".

And here we are in a thread about an incredibly entertaining young star player, and no one writes a single compliment about the guy. No neutral fans popping in just to say they really like watching Marner, or that they wish they had him. No. Nothing but jokes about our stars getting overpaid, and the team being doomed to fall apart. Would it look like this if the thread were about Clayton Keller? Did it look like this for Johnny Gaudreau?

I'm telling you (whether it's justified or not) there is a group of "fans" that hate the Leafs more than they like hockey.

Then I guess you haven't read the thread. A habs fan a few posts up said he would gladly take him at $11.5mm a year.

 

[DomBarr]

Kane's contract didn't include any RFA years. Marner's will include 4.

ok the Leafs killed this argument when Dubas gave Matthews 5 x 11.5. Now they have to live with it. While Chiarelli poked holes in it with McDavid and Draisatl contracts but the killer was the Leafs and Matthews.

 

[4thline]

the cap hit for his first season is higher than the remainder of the contract, not lower.

The actual cap hit is the same. The daily cap accrual is higher

 

[4thline]

ok the Leafs killed this argument when Dubas gave Matthews 5 x 11.5. Now they have to live with it. While Chiarelli poked holes in it with McDavid and Draisatl contracts but the killer was the Leafs and Matthews.

The McDavid contract was a steal. Lower cap % than Crosby's RFA contract for 8 years instead of 5

 

[qqaz]

Then I guess you haven't read the thread. A habs fan a few posts up said he would gladly take him at $11.5mm a year.

Great, you found a single example. I will admit that I was wrong to say "no neutral fans" were saying these things. In fact, in the 10 pages of the thread, you might even find a second one!

Now how many insults and "joy at our pain" comments do you think I can find on page 1 alone? How about the guy who said watching Dubas cave would be "so fun to watch"? How about the fake Dubas negotiation that has 55 likes? How about the big bold letters and fake quote saying Marner doesn't see a future with the Leafs? Or the "delicious" reality comment? Or the double laughing faces at the idea he will only get 10.5? All on page 1.

 

[Spirit of 67]

bunch of hypocrite for not wanting to pay your best player when it suits you.

So you don't know how salaries work.

Got it.

 

[Harhis]

You mean the centre who is probably the 2nd best goal scorer in the world? Yeah, those things get you paid more.

If I'm paying someone McDavid money I would want him to do a little more than score goals.

 

[bert]

I mean that seems like a reasonable stance to take.

Agreed, Kane is a hart trophy winner, conn smyth winner, Calder winner Marner doesnt have any of those acolades. Why should he get more than Kucherov too. Winger prices arent center prices.

Good luck with that Leafs. You paid Matthews like a top player already... You will be paying the better player Marner a crap load

11.5 per atleast.. Its pretty obvios

I just dont agree the center market is more expensive.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

The cap was ~15mil lower when Kane signed.... and the Leafs just made Matthews and Tavares the #2 and #3 paid C's in the league. With inflation, Kane would be making 12.6. If I'm Marner, I say, "why would I get paid any less than Matthews? I'm better than him, more consistent than him, and I impact the game in more different ways than he does. Pay me what you paid Matthews or this is going to be a very tough negotiation".

Dubas, almost individually, set the market for this type of player. Maybe Marner signs for 9.5 but I would be very surprised. I think he gets at least 10mil and thats still being a team player on his part

 

[Legion34]

And this year, Marner was better. And had a better PPG. And healthier.

And are you missing the part where I have said repeatedly that Marner will get less money per and sign for more term?

And yup, Matthews had a good playoffs. Now has 13 points in 20 games. Mitch has 17 points in 20 games.

Marner BARELY had a better PPG playing with tavares. Compared to Matthews who had rookieS

Not only that. They scored at the exact same PPG. Except Marner had like 7 assists on empty nets.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Agreed, Kane is a hart trophy winner, conn smyth winner, Calder winner Marner doesnt have any of those acolades. Why should he get more than Kucherov too. Winger prices arent center prices.

I just dont agree the center market is more expensive.

Kane didnt have most of his accolades at the time he signed (no Art Ross, Hart or Lindsay...only topped 75pts once), although the Conn Smythe was definitely significant, but based on percentage of the cap, if he signed today, it would be more than what McDavid got.

As far as C vs W, there is a slight measurable difference... much more when you get further down the lineup though. Perry makes as much as Getzlaf, Kane makes as much as Toews... and I dont think you can really make the case that the wingers were considered consensus better players at the time they were signed. Most of that is retrospect. So there is definite precedence for wingers commanding as much as their C counterparts, especially when theyre on the same team.

 

[thelos]

Agreed, Kane is a hart trophy winner, conn smyth winner, Calder winner Marner doesnt have any of those acolades. Why should he get more than Kucherov too. Winger prices arent center prices.



I just dont agree the center market is more expensive.

Kucherov plays in a state with no state income tax. Huge difference between Florida and Ontario in terms of taxation.

 

[Hockeyfannnn91]

It’s ok Kyle Dubas will use his analytics to get marner signed up and get 10 800k guys to contribute by looking at his analytic charts

 

[cheswick]

Those damn leafs fans getting excited over the biggest UFA signing in NHL history after going through a stretch of 1 playoff appearance in 10 years before turning the team around with Matthews/Marner. How dare they enjoy that......

Going from abysmal to mediocre is reason to boast like you've won the last 20 Stanley cups? Only in Toronto.

 

[Torontoborn]

Toronto fans were freaking annoying to the point of muting them when you got Tavares last summer.
The hate is justified

You don't think any other fan base would have been just as excited. give your head a shake.

 

[Frank Drebin]

I think some fans are more happy about a potentially difficult cap situation for Toronto than they would be to watch their own team win a playoff series. I really do.

The hate is unbelievable. It's like some fans hate the Leafs more than they ever actually liked hockey.

It's close. My favourite team has always been the Habs, followed closely by whoever plays the Leafs. Consider it a compliment. Or not.
Being that my team is golfing right now cheering against the Leafs is great.

 

[Torontoborn]

Kucherov plays in a state with no state income tax. Huge difference between Florida and Ontario in terms of taxation.

The money athletes lose in high tax places like Ontario they get back in endorsements. Yes Kuch pays no state tax but doesn't make nearly as much as say Marner would get in endorsements i.e. commercials, autograph signings, billboard pictures.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Good luck with that Leafs. You paid Matthews like a top player already... You will be paying the better player Marner a crap load

11.5 per atleast.. Its pretty obvios

This offseason is gonna be so fun to watch. Dubas will cave once again

Why are you taking two different stances? So it's obvious that Marner is the greatest and deserves more than 11.5 million (which is a load of nonsense), but also if Dubas pays him what he deserves, he should be mocked and laughed at for caving.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Why are you taking two different stances? So it's obvious that Marner is the greatest and deserves more than 11.5 million (which is a load of nonsense), but also if Dubas pays him what he deserves, he should be mocked and laughed at for caving.

"We can and we will"

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

How much of his salary will Intact pay?

 

[BlueStorm]

This is a matter of you not understanding how the cap works. There is no cap loophole at work here. Nylander doesn't get paid for portion of the season he missed, so thats why the cap hit is lower than if he had played the full season.

Nylander missed ~32% of the season, so only gets paid ~68% of the $10-million base salary in his first year. $6.8 base + $2 signing bonus means he makes $8.8 million in his first year. Add that to the $33-million over the next 5 years and divide by the total number of years on the contract (6 years) and you get his cap hit.

There is no loophole. Simply money paid over the contact divided by years of the contract.

SEASON	CLAUSE	CAP HIT	AAV	P. BONUSES	S. BONUSES	BASE SALARY	TOTAL SALARY	MINORS SALARY
2018-19		$10,277,778	$10,277,778	$0	$2,000,000	$10,000,000	$12,000,000	$12,000,000
2019-20		$6,962,366	$6,962,366	$0	$8,300,000	$700,000	$9,000,000	$9,000,000
2020-21		$6,962,366	$6,962,366	$0	$3,500,000	$2,500,000	$6,000,000	$6,000,000
2021-22		$6,962,366	$6,962,366	$0	$3,500,000	$2,500,000	$6,000,000	$6,000,000
2022-23		$6,962,366	$6,962,366	$0	$3,500,000	$2,500,000	$6,000,000	$6,000,000
2023-24	Modified NTC	$6,962,366	$6,962,366	$0	$3,500,000	$2,500,000	$6,000,000	$6,000,000
TOTAL		$45,089,608	$45,089,608	$0	$24,300,000	$20,700,000	$45,000,000	$45,000,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So he isn't getting paid $45 million over 6 years? You should call up the Toronto media because they have been reporting Nylander making over $20 million by July 1 of this year.