Friedman: Leafs do not see Marner making more than Kane

[REM17]

I think some fans are more happy about a potentially difficult cap situation for Toronto than they would be to watch their own team win a playoff series. I really do.

The hate is unbelievable. It's like some fans hate the Leafs more than they ever actually liked hockey.

It's no hate but malicious joy about the constant failure of the 'center of the hockey universe' franchise which have not won a thing in the last 60 years with all their super star power since they forgot that hockey is a team sport. Teams win cups, super stars rack up points in the regular season.

 

[Kranix]

Then they shouldn't have given Matthews and Tavares more than Kane

 

[BlueStorm]

Then they shouldn't have given Matthews and Tavares more than Kane

New contracts are lasrgely based on percentage of cap. You can't compare a contract signed 3 or 4 years ago on dollar value.

 

[thelos]

The money athletes lose in high tax places like Ontario they get back in endorsements. Yes Kuch pays no state tax but doesn't make nearly as much as say Marner would get in endorsements i.e. commercials, autograph signings, billboard pictures.

Marner won't take less money because of endorsements. They won't even enter into the negotiation

 

[Kranix]

New contracts are lasrgely based on percentage of cap. You can't compare a contract signed 3 or 4 years ago on dollar value.

But that's what they're doing with Marner is it not?

 

[justafan22]

New contracts are lasrgely based on percentage of cap. You can't compare a contract signed 3 or 4 years ago on dollar value.

And Tavares was offered reportedly 7 x 13 by the Sharks.

 

[Volica]

I'll keep saying it, and I'll likely keep being correct about it.
You can't use league-wide historical comparables when your own GM just handed out two of the biggest contracts in the NHL in the span of the last year. Especially when you're negotiating a contract with a player that was your best forward this past season.

Marner takes somewhere between Tavares and Matthews in Toronto. Or Marner takes somewhere between Matthews and Tavares somewhere else.

 

[shortfuze]

Reading through many GDT on the Leafs board, you would never know that Matthews was their best player. The fans were all over the guy. On the other hand, it was a continuous Marner lover fest.

It’s a lovefest because he’s from here. Doesn’t make him better though.

 

[4thline]

Marner takes somewhere between Tavares and Matthews in Toronto. Or Marner takes somewhere between Matthews and Tavares somewhere else.

That requires someone being willing to step up to the table. Lots of fans sure that someone will. Considerably fewer that want their team to do it.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I don't see any reason why Marner would take less than Matthews. If I were him, I'm not taking the "we don't have the space to sign you to that kind of deal" as an excuse.

 

[ManofSteel55]

It’s a lovefest because he’s from here. Doesn’t make him better though.

How the narrative changes once contract discussions are around the corner.

 

[Nervousbreakdown]

Kane didnt have most of his accolades at the time he signed (no Art Ross, Hart or Lindsay...only topped 75pts once), although the Conn Smythe was definitely significant, but based on percentage of the cap, if he signed today, it would be more than what McDavid got.

As far as C vs W, there is a slight measurable difference... much more when you get further down the lineup though. Perry makes as much as Getzlaf, Kane makes as much as Toews... and I dont think you can really make the case that the wingers were considered consensus better players at the time they were signed. Most of that is retrospect. So there is definite precedence for wingers commanding as much as their C counterparts, especially when theyre on the same team.

A couple things, 1. Kanes second contract adjusted for the cap wouldn't be more than Mcdavids, youre thinking of his 3rd contract, his second one carried a cap hit of 6.3 and was 11% of the cap. That would put Marners cap hit at 9.1 if you thought they were equal. Kane won a calder, had a similar PPG in the reg season, higher in the playoffs and he scored more goals. He also didn't get to play with John Tavares.

2. I think Perry and Getzlaf are a fair example of why wingers shouldn't be paid as much as centers, but perry's decline is based more on the style of game he plays.

I think the leafs paid Matthews the right amount for the Term. McDavid left money on the table, but I think the obvious comparable for Matthews' contract is Crosby, Crosby got a 5 year deal for 17.5% of the cap coming out of his ELC. Matthews gets one for 14.5%. By that model the Leafs should be offering Marner a 5 year deal for around 8.5, maybe 8.8. Gets him a good payday now and sets him up for a bigger pay day in 5 years, where he will still be young enough that an 8 year contract affords him a good chance at a solid 4th contract at 35. If his agent doesn't go for that Dubas should give him the contact info for every GM in the league, I think he will have a harder time finding that offersheet for 11.5 than this website thinks.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Good luck with that Leafs. You paid Matthews like a top player already... You will be paying the better player Marner a crap load

11.5 per atleast.. Its pretty obvios

Yep, you make your bed with the Matthews contract, now you have to live with a Marner contract that will not be team friendly.

Dubas also painted himself into to self imposed corner by saying a deal was imperative before July 1. Marner, Ferris, and his dad are holding all the cards at the negotiation table.

 

[Torontoborn]

Marner won't take less money because of endorsements. They won't even enter into the negotiation

Then state tax can't enter into negotiations either. So that means 9-9.5 per should be a good number.

 

[DFC]

New contracts are lasrgely based on percentage of cap. You can't compare a contract signed 3 or 4 years ago on dollar value.

That's kind of his point. You can't then go and compare Marner's new contract to one signed several years ago.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Good luck with that Leafs. You paid Matthews like a top player already... You will be paying the better player Marner a crap load

11.5 per atleast.. Its pretty obvios

Marner is not the better player in the eyes of the market.

Wingers get the shorter end of the stick compared to centers. Playmakers get the shorter end of the stick compared to goalscorers.

94 points is great but when was the last time a forward who has yet to score 30 goals in the league gets paid 10M a season? I don't think there's ever been one.

Marner might be the first one but 11M is ridiculous and won't happen. Leafs won't make Mitch f***ing Marner the highest paid winger in the game, over guys like Kane, Kucherov and Ovechkin no matter when or under what circumstances those contracts were signed.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Remember when people used to pretend there was no Leaf hate on HF? Also does anyone remember this time last year when it looked like Nylander might get dealt and this forum was singing his praises? And now he is a cap dump who sucks?

Now suddenly after hating on Marner his first two years he is amazing now and deserves to be a top 5 paid player in the NHL after having a career year next to JT.

I love Marner but no problem at all if he is traded if he won't come down or if he signs an offer sheet just take the picks. At some point Dubas will have to put his foot down and say he learned his lesson. We'll lose a good player to do it. Let's get rid of Marner and sign all our RFA/UFA's if we have to.

 

[Blueboy]

Marner can sign an offersheet then, we’ll take 4 1sts and sign a big UFA.

Bye bye Mitch, say bye to all your commercial money too.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Matthews makes more than Toews so I’m not sure why they would use this comparison lol

 

[Kranix]

Marner can sign an offersheet then, we’ll take 4 1sts and sign a big UFA.

Bye bye Mitch, say bye to all your commercial money too.

That's what Dubas is secretly hoping

 

[Kamiccolo]

Going from abysmal to mediocre is reason to boast like you've won the last 20 Stanley cups? Only in Toronto.

You guys hated the Leafs even when they were trash. The main board before Kessel was traded was disgusting. Fans ripping him apart. And before he even played a game for the Pens the narrative had changed 180.

Toxic. This site has become toxic. It always was bad, but it's the worst it has ever been.

 

[Nizdizzle]

SEASON	CLAUSE	CAP HIT	AAV	P. BONUSES	S. BONUSES	BASE SALARY	TOTAL SALARY	MINORS SALARY
2018-19		$10,277,778	$10,277,778	$0	$2,000,000	$10,000,000	$12,000,000	$12,000,000
2019-20		$6,962,366	$6,962,366	$0	$8,300,000	$700,000	$9,000,000	$9,000,000
2020-21		$6,962,366	$6,962,366	$0	$3,500,000	$2,500,000	$6,000,000	$6,000,000
2021-22		$6,962,366	$6,962,366	$0	$3,500,000	$2,500,000	$6,000,000	$6,000,000
2022-23		$6,962,366	$6,962,366	$0	$3,500,000	$2,500,000	$6,000,000	$6,000,000
2023-24	Modified NTC	$6,962,366	$6,962,366	$0	$3,500,000	$2,500,000	$6,000,000	$6,000,000
TOTAL		$45,089,608	$45,089,608	$0	$24,300,000	$20,700,000	$45,000,000	$45,000,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So he isn't getting paid $45 million over 6 years? You should call up the Toronto media because they have been reporting Nylander making over $20 million by July 1 of this year.

They would be incorrect. $8.8 mill this year and $9-mill next year.

 

[BlueStorm]

Marner can sign an offersheet then, we’ll take 4 1sts and sign a big UFA.

Bye bye Mitch, say bye to all your commercial money too.

We've had one big UFA sign here in a generation. When was the last time a top end UFA signed in TO? Curtis Joseph? JT was a once in a lifetime signing here. He took less money to come home. Look at Stamkos, he stayed where the sun shines and the state income tax doesn't exist. Toronto has to pay about $2.5 million more per year because of higher taxes. How happy is JT going to be when they trade or let Marner leave via an OS? One of the big draws for JT was coming to play with Marner.
The market in Toronto was skewed by the Nylander and Matthews contracts. Dubas overpaid and now Marner shouldn't have to take less money because Dubas has a spending problem.
You sign Matthews at $10.5 MAX or drive him to the airport. Nylander at $5million or he sits out the year playing with himself in Sweden.
Then Marner at $10m and he's happy. Dubas will be about $4.5m over where he should be.

 

[93gilmour93]

Going from abysmal to mediocre is reason to boast like you've won the last 20 Stanley cups? Only in Toronto.

According to salty HF posters it's like the Stanley Cup but to most leafs fans it was the excitement of turning the team around. A great example is you calling the Leafs who had back to back 100 point seasons mediocre. Typical HF garbage.....

 

[Morbo]

It's close. My favourite team has always been the Habs, followed closely by whoever plays the Leafs. Consider it a compliment. Or not.

We do, don't worry.