Friedman: Leafs do not see Marner making more than Kane

[Tripod]

Marner BARELY had a better PPG playing with tavares. Compared to Matthews who had rookieS

Not only that. They scored at the exact same PPG. Except Marner had like 7 assists on empty nets.

Barely?

Marner had 70 ES points....Matthews had 53.

It's too bad you have to use "per game" when talking about Matthews instead of real points. Yet some one here say "small players get injured" when discussing Marners next contract, ignoring it's the big bad Matthews who is teh one missing games.

 

[Tripod]

Agreed, Kane is a hart trophy winner, conn smyth winner, Calder winner Marner doesnt have any of those acolades. Why should he get more than Kucherov too. Winger prices arent center prices.



I just dont agree the center market is more expensive.

Because it's a myth.

1 year ago, 3 of the top 6 paid players were wingers. And of the top 16 paid players, 7 were wingers, 7 were centers.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Remember when people used to pretend there was no Leaf hate on HF? Also does anyone remember this time last year when it looked like Nylander might get dealt and this forum was singing his praises? And now he is a cap dump who sucks?

Now suddenly after hating on Marner his first two years he is amazing now and deserves to be a top 5 paid player in the NHL after having a career year next to JT.

I love Marner but no problem at all if he is traded if he won't come down or if he signs an offer sheet just take the picks. At some point Dubas will have to put his foot down and say he learned his lesson. We'll lose a good player to do it. Let's get rid of Marner and sign all our RFA/UFA's if we have to.

please find a post where someone said Marner sucks ? NO one ever said Marner was bad, except Toronto fans ATM when it suits their narrative.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

say bye to all your commercial money too.

he'll have more of those in MTL

 

[Kamiccolo]

please find a post where someone said Marner sucks ? NO one ever said Marner was bad, except Toronto fans ATM when it suits their narrative.

Really? Lmfao. I remember arguing with fans that he wasn't Gagne 2.0 and there were a lot of them lmfao.

 

[BAM]

Barely?

Marner had 70 ES points....Matthews had 53.

It's too bad you have to use "per game" when talking about Matthews instead of real points. Yet some one here say "small players get injured" when discussing Marners next contract, ignoring it's the big bad Matthews who is teh one missing games.

Matthews injured in 2 of his 3 seasons = injury prone
McDavid injured in 2 of 4 seasons = not injury prone
EP being injured twice in his rookie season = not injury prone
Eichel being injured 3 of his 4 seaons = not injury prone
Barkov being injured in 4 of 6 seasons = not injury prone

HF in a nutshell

 

[Nizdizzle]

Barely?

Marner had 70 ES points....Matthews had 53.

It's too bad you have to use "per game" when talking about Matthews instead of real points. Yet some one here say "small players get injured" when discussing Marners next contract, ignoring it's the big bad Matthews who is teh one missing games.

I have literally never seen someone try to make this argument.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Really? Lmfao. I remember arguing with fans that he wasn't Gagne 2.0 and there were a lot of them lmfao.

do find them. No one can say that Marner is worth less than Matthews after this year, he has grit, courage, determination and loves Toronto ( all those Nylander doesn't have).

 

[Torontoborn]

Barely?

Marner had 70 ES points....Matthews had 53.

It's too bad you have to use "per game" when talking about Matthews instead of real points. Yet some one here say "small players get injured" when discussing Marners next contract, ignoring it's the big bad Matthews who is teh one missing games.

You do realize over 3 seasons not just one good season which inflates Marners number Matthews has 149 even strength points 84 of them goals in 212 games vs Marners 148 even strength points 51 of them goals in 241 games.

 

[Kamiccolo]

do find them. No one can say that Marner is worth less than Matthews after this year, he has grit, courage, determination and loves Toronto ( all those Nylander doesn't have).

Nah, I am not wasting my time. What good would that do? You'd either ghost the post or shift the goal post. Been there, done that. Providing evidence does nothing.

I just have to focus on not getting so involved with this site especially over the summer. Maybe the mods can suspend my account after the draft so I am not tempted to come here and deal with the toxic fans on here.

 

[mouser]

SEASON	CLAUSE	CAP HIT	AAV	P. BONUSES	S. BONUSES	BASE SALARY	TOTAL SALARY	MINORS SALARY
2018-19		$10,277,778	$10,277,778	$0	$2,000,000	$10,000,000	$12,000,000	$12,000,000
2019-20		$6,962,366	$6,962,366	$0	$8,300,000	$700,000	$9,000,000	$9,000,000
2020-21		$6,962,366	$6,962,366	$0	$3,500,000	$2,500,000	$6,000,000	$6,000,000
2021-22		$6,962,366	$6,962,366	$0	$3,500,000	$2,500,000	$6,000,000	$6,000,000
2022-23		$6,962,366	$6,962,366	$0	$3,500,000	$2,500,000	$6,000,000	$6,000,000
2023-24	Modified NTC	$6,962,366	$6,962,366	$0	$3,500,000	$2,500,000	$6,000,000	$6,000,000
TOTAL		$45,089,608	$45,089,608	$0	$24,300,000	$20,700,000	$45,000,000	$45,000,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So he isn't getting paid $45 million over 6 years? You should call up the Toronto media because they have been reporting Nylander making over $20 million by July 1 of this year.

No, he’s not being paid $45m over 6 years.

Nylander doesn’t collect 100% of his first year salary after signing late. He’s only being paid s41.77m over 6 years.

 

[Theodore450]

Really? Lmfao. I remember arguing with fans that he wasn't Gagne 2.0 and there were a lot of them lmfao.

Maybe at the draft. But as soon as he stepped foot on NHL ice. He’s been nothing but a beauty

 

[BowDangles]

I'd agree with Freidman's statement if he means Marner shouldn't make more than Patrick Kane did in terms of salary cap % at the time of the deal signed.
At the time, Kane signed for 10.5 mil when the cap was 71.4 mil - that is 14.7% total cap.

Even if we use this years cap max instead of next year that puts Marner at 11.7mil minimum....

Now correct me if I am wrong but doesnt Marner penalty kill as well?

My guess is he gets 11.5-12 mil/yr

 

[Dache]

What does being from the GTA have to do with anything? Lol.

Small players don't usually stay healthy.

Says who? Some of the most notable “small” players have been notoriously healthy. St. Louis, Marchand, even Gaudreau.

 

[Sam Spade]

Outside fans more excited about the Leafs cap situation than their own team.

I'll be honest I only care because of Dubas saying stuff like this:

Tavares. Nylander. Marner. Matthews. Can the Maple Leafs really keep all four? “We can, and we will,” Dubas told Sportsnet’s Elliotte Friedman.

When the answer should have been, "We will make every attempt possible".

It doesn't take a capologist to know that when Tavares signed something would have to give in Leaf land, but certain fans replied to anyone who questioned how it could work that they were idiots.

I guess we are gonna see what wonder boy has up his sleeve now that he overpaid not only Nylander but Matthews as well.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

The Boy Blunder really hosed himself with respect to Marner with his ineptitude on the Nylander deal.

Marner has the Leafs by the you know whats. The Leafs may as well as cave early. They're going to cave anyway when all is said and done.

 

[4thline]

What teams are stepping up and offering a deal better than 10.5 x 8 and forfeiting the picks?

 

[Tripod]

Matthews injured in 2 of his 3 seasons = injury prone
McDavid injured in 2 of 4 seasons = not injury prone
EP being injured twice in his rookie season = not injury prone
Eichel being injured 3 of his 4 seaons = not injury prone
Barkov being injured in 4 of 6 seasons = not injury prone

HF in a nutshell

McDavid missed 4 games in one of those injures seasons....laughable to include that.
EP you bet it's a concern. But he also as an underdeveloped body, unlike Matthews.
Eichel...again...you are including a 77 game season and an injured one....laughable.
Barkov....go back 2 years ago and people 100% were talking that he needs to stay healthy

And I never said Matthews in injury prone. I have said that Marner stays healthy which should not be used against him. His points that he got, were real...not shoulda, coulda, woulda. And for the 1000th time, I have never said Marner will get more money or that I expect the same money. I have said repeatedly that 11 million per for 7 years is a fair deal. Less money AND less term than Matthews.

I have literally never seen someone try to make this argument.

read back to last night convo. It's there.

You do realize over 3 seasons not just one good season which inflates Marners number Matthews has 149 even strength points 84 of them goals in 212 games vs Marners 148 even strength points 51 of them goals in 241 games.

ok, and? Did Marner play with Tavares in year 1 and 2? No. We were talking about this past year.

And again...see above. I am not saying Marner will get the same money as Matthews. You guys are just hyper focused to think that way anytime anyone mentions how good Marner HAS been.

Be happy. You have 3 star forwards. This is a great problem to have. Dubas will figure the cap out regardless what Marner is paid. Is your team really crippled because Bracco plays instead of AJ? No. Save the 3 million from AJ, use 1 mill on Bracco, and use some of the rest on Marner. Easy

 

[Stormcrow]

One of Kap/AJ will be moved. I would also bet Brown gone too. They will try to move NZ but might have to add a big sweetener. Marner gets 10.775x5 and does a Timmies ad for xmas dressed as an elf.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Can you imagine if one of these mystical offsheets actually happened? You would have to over pay the player and give up 4 first round picks. Chiarelli is not employed in the nhl anymore.

I don't know why people mention the bolded like it would be a bad move.

For example, my Pens have drafted in the first round in the 20+ range pretty much every year after Jordan Staal was taken 2nd overall in 2006. If you asked me to trade, say, the 20th, 25th, 30th, and 26th pick for Marner, I'd do that in a heartbeat.

It would be one thing if a bad team who is perennially drafting Top 5 tried to offer sheet Marner and had to give up 4 picks in the Top 5, but if contending teams who rarely draft higher than 20th did it? Why *wouldn't* they?

 

[cheswick]

According to salty HF posters it's like the Stanley Cup but to most leafs fans it was the excitement of turning the team around. A great example is you calling the Leafs who had back to back 100 point seasons mediocre. Typical HF garbage.....

The Leafs finished 3rd in their division, and had another first round exit. If you want to categorize that as above mediocre, you're an easy grader.

 

[Krewe]

Oh look it's you again!

Matthews (and JT) play center, and are top 5 goal scorers in the NHL (per game wise).
Marner doesn't play center, is not a goal scorer.

Marner does not deserve the same pay because he does not do the two hardest things for a forward to do.



Chris Johnston told us what Dubas will do. He will give them an offer before July 1st and say this is our offer and if you won't consider it then we have to move on because we cannot pay you this. Marner's agents will likely laugh and try to sign an offer sheet. Marner will need to ask himself if he truly wants to leave because that possibility will become real. I think he "caves" (the offer will be fair but he could get more in an open market obviously) because he wants to be a Leaf.

Tavares had never scored 40 goals before signing his contract, had a career high of 86 points, and was 27. This year he increases his season goals record by 10 and improves his career high in points. Why would that be? Likely because he had a 94 point, 21yo winger driving his line. Tavares was a 35/45 center who got 11 million. Why shouldnt a 25/65 Winger be getting somewhere close, especially when there is way more room for improvement than there was for Tavares

 

[Seanaconda]

What teams are stepping up and offering a deal better than 10.5 x 8 and forfeiting the picks?

10 X 5 is a better contract and that will probably be offered and is only in the 2 first second and third range .

Idk maybe Nashville or the canes do it. Both solid defensively . Need forwards. Depending on how their seasons go there is a decent chance they trade their firsts at the tdl next two years anyways .

Basically any team that can clear the cap that is in a position they will be trading their firsts for rentals the next handful or years would be dumb to not consider it.

 

[93gilmour93]

The Leafs finished 3rd in their division, and had another first round exit. If you want to categorize that as above mediocre, you're an easy grader.

Of coursee. Two top teams playing each other in a 7 game series. Didn't go the leafs way but if you think because of that strong match up you consider that mediocre then keep posting hot garbage like you are. To me a mediocre team would have lost the series 4-0. Oh the leafs haters. Lol

Using your logic Tampa Bay must be a bottom 5 team because they got swept

 

[4thline]

10 X 5 is a better contract and that will probably be offered and is only in the 2 first second and third range .

Idk maybe Nashville or the canes do it. Both solid defensively . Need forwards. Depending on how their seasons go there is a decent chance they trade their firsts at the tdl next two years anyways .

Basically any team that can clear the cap that is in a position they will be trading their firsts for rentals the next handful or years would be dumb to not consider it.

I completely agree on a 10.xx by 5 year contract. That makes a fair amount sense for a lot of teams. But then it also makes a lot of sense for the Leafs to add a slight premium to buy up a 6th or even 7th year

But several people have been gloating about how the Leafs will have to give him Matthews money or someone will. Not a whole lot of volunteers stepping up to that plate