Friedman: Leafs do not see Marner making more than Kane

[NobleSix]

If that is truly the case, I'm really looking forward to seeing Marner leave Toronto.

 

[Ciccio1980]

The difference in taxes between Florida and Ontario is about 700000 not 2.5 million

 

[Prongo]

I’ll take Marner on the flyers at 11 million a year.

 

[BlueStorm]

The difference in taxes between Florida and Ontario is about 700000 not 2.5 million

7% provincial income tax?

 

[Fogelhund]

If Marner and Point both signed $10 million deals with their respective clubs Point would make about $2 million more per year than Marner because of no state tax laws.

Marner gets $11m and Point gets $9m. Both players clear the same amount of money but the Toronto GM gets crucified by his fan base because it appears he over paid his player.

With all of the out of state play, I think it's closer to $1 mil difference. Having said that... Do people see Point as a guy that should be signed for $9-12 million per year long-term?

I see all this noise about the Leafs, and Marner, and yet nobody wants to talk about Point and Tampa... comparable players, both young, very good players, similar production.... should be paid about the same, or receive offer sheets, but only Marner is talked about. Why?

 

[4thline]

You have absolutely no idea how many suitors there’s would be.

I don't.

But this thread has a whole lot "Someone's gonna get ya! Me? No doesn't make sense for me, but someone!"

It's possible that there are one or more teams interested in Marner at the dollar figures suggested. If that happens it has one of three results

-the Leafs retain Marner at a fair rate as determined by the market
-the Leafs elect to accept compensation
the Leafs make a deal that both parties like more than draft pick compensation

 

[Randy Randerson]

With all of the out of state play, I think it's closer to $1 mil difference. Having said that... Do people see Point as a guy that should be signed for $9-12 million per year long-term?

I see all this noise about the Leafs, and Marner, and yet nobody wants to talk about Point and Tampa... comparable players, both young, very good players, similar production.... should be paid about the same, or receive offer sheets, but only Marner is talked about. Why?

also don't forget the widdling down of the gross salary - agent & management fees reduce the gross and shrink the amount of difference between markets due to tax in the process

There's also the fact that the comparisons are all done on gross earnings, not net, an arbitrator wouldn't consider take home pay. If the league was sanctioning the net-pay approach, they'd be circumventing their own salary cap in the process.

If Marner's camp tried to pull that, I think there's an easy way to disarm it - "how much does Brayden Point make in endorsements, and how much do you?"

 

[axlrose87]

I don't know why people mention the bolded like it would be a bad move.

For example, my Pens have drafted in the first round in the 20+ range pretty much every year after Jordan Staal was taken 2nd overall in 2006. If you asked me to trade, say, the 20th, 25th, 30th, and 26th pick for Marner, I'd do that in a heartbeat.

It would be one thing if a bad team who is perennially drafting Top 5 tried to offer sheet Marner and had to give up 4 picks in the Top 5, but if contending teams who rarely draft higher than 20th did it? Why *wouldn't* they?

Which top teams have $11 million plus to hand out in an offersheet

 

[Nervousbreakdown]

The difference in taxes between Florida and Ontario is about 700000 not 2.5 million

7% provincial income tax?

Actually Forbes did an article about it. After agents fees, escrow and what not its 70000k per year on a 9.5 million dollar per year deal.

 

[axlrose87]

also don't forget the widdling down of the gross salary - agent & management fees reduce the gross and shrink the amount of difference between markets due to tax in the process

There's also the fact that the comparisons are all done on gross earnings, not net, an arbitrator wouldn't consider take home pay. If the league was sanctioning the net-pay approach, they'd be circumventing their own salary cap in the process.

If Marner's camp tried to pull that, I think there's an easy way to disarm it - "how much does Brayden Point make in endorsements, and how much do you?"

Also, Brayden Point cannot get a no trade clause (which 12/23 players on the tampa roster will have next season).
This means that he would be foolish to settle for less just because he plays in tax free Florida. What happens if they turned around and traded him (and his discount contract) to the tax heavy state of California or New York? That discount he gave them wouldn't make much sense anymore.
All the other Lightning players know that they will continue to benefit from their tax situation because they know they cant be traded

 

[Magic Man]

Nylander made it all the way to Dec 1st without receiving an offersheet. Other top end young players will be available as RFA's. I do not fear the offersheet.

 

[StumpyTown]

Brayden Point - Center - 175 points the last two years... including playoffs.
Marner - Winger - 176 points the last two years, including playoffs

Point plays the more valuable position.

Surely if Marner is worth $11 million per, then Point is too right?

The difference in a player's value isn't so much as what they are worth, but rather the quality of the GM and the agent doing the negotiating.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

What are the Leafs going to say?
Sure we gave too much to Matthews and Nylander but we’d like you to take a home town discount to help the team?
Marner won’t buy that and why should he.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Good luck to them with that. They already have 2 guys making more than that, and Marner was better than both of them last year. I doubt he or his agent are going to care what Kane signed for 3-4 years ago. Even if they do, when Kane's contract started, his AAV represented 14.7% of the cap ceiling. Using a projected ceiling of $79.5MM for next season, that's $11.69MM today.

He is still not as good as Kane was at the time. Wasn't Kane contending for Art Rosses and MVPs? Marner is not as good as Kane.

 

[Nervousbreakdown]

What are the Leafs going to say?
Sure we gave too much to Matthews and Nylander but we’d like you to take a home town discount to help the team?
Marner won’t buy that and why should he.

They didn't

 

[I am Canadian]

Patrick Kane signed his contract after his ELC at 11.09% of the cap. Translate that to today and that's 9.2 million. Kane also had just won a cup and put up 28 points in 22 games. This 11M speculation seems absolutely ridiculous to me.

5 x 9.2m is what Marner deserves. Unless he thinks he is a better player than Patrick Kane after their ELC was done.

 

[PuckInTheNards]

The Leafs' problem here is that while they're comparing Marner to Kane, Marner's camp will be comparing him to Tavares and Matthews. Just pay him what Matthews and Tavares are making and get on with the rest of your offseason, IMO (or move on from Marner, which would be a mistake).

 

[4thline]

Do people not realize that Kane's RFA contract would be a cap adjusted ~9.2 million?
And that willingness to use the UFA contract of the highest paid winger in the game is the farthest thing from a "discount"?

 

[Seanaconda]

With all of the out of state play, I think it's closer to $1 mil difference. Having said that... Do people see Point as a guy that should be signed for $9-12 million per year long-term?

I see all this noise about the Leafs, and Marner, and yet nobody wants to talk about Point and Tampa... comparable players, both young, very good players, similar production.... should be paid about the same, or receive offer sheets, but only Marner is talked about. Why?

Points also been talked about. It's just more likely he takes a discount when he looks over at stamkos kucherov and hedman all taking discounts on his own team vs marner looking over at Matthews and tavares.

But Tampa fans have been talking about potential point offer sheets and how to clear the money to offer / match at least 10 if not more.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Also, Brayden Point cannot get a no trade clause (which 12/23 players on the tampa roster will have next season).
This means that he would be foolish to settle for less just because he plays in tax free Florida. What happens if they turned around and traded him (and his discount contract) to the tax heavy state of California or New York? That discount he gave them wouldn't make much sense anymore.
All the other Lightning players know that they will continue to benefit from their tax situation because they know they cant be traded

totally agree, if I'm Point I don't take less because my tax structure is more advantageous, I just look to take more home from the same gross. I think that's a self-fulfilling prophecy unless Tampa just ends up with a bunch of guys willing to sacrifice their own earnings to keep the band together. Stamkos did that for sure, but I think Kucherov was a relatively market rate and I don't see the Stamkos approach being that common for them going forward

 

[Fogelhund]

Also, Brayden Point cannot get a no trade clause (which 12/23 players on the tampa roster will have next season).
This means that he would be foolish to settle for less just because he plays in tax free Florida. What happens if they turned around and traded him (and his discount contract) to the tax heavy state of California or New York? That discount he gave them wouldn't make much sense anymore.
All the other Lightning players know that they will continue to benefit from their tax situation because they know they cant be traded

I think Tampa will have 7 players next season, with NTC's. They had ten this year, but three are UFA's.

Tampa Bay Lightning - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Further to your point... it's also possible, that if his production slips at all, he ends up being exposed and claimed in the next expansion draft, which would also affect his after tax income.

 

[BB88]

Patrick Kane signed his contract after his ELC at 11.09% of the cap. Translate that to today and that's 9.2 million. Kane also had just won a cup and put up 28 points in 22 games. This 11M speculation seems absolutely ridiculous to me.

5 x 9.2m is what Marner deserves. Unless he thinks he is a better player than Patrick Kane after their ELC was done.

Good luck with that.

Did I miss something or did Matthews sign 5x 9.2M deal? Comparable to Toews 2nd contract?

 

[Krewe]

and if Matty was healthy, he hits 100 easy without question.

Lol maybe in a career year. Everyone mentions that marner only got 94 because its a contract year but lets check out Matthews stats before/after signing his contract.

Before signing on 2/5: 46p in 38gp = 99pt pace.
After signing on 2/5: 27p in 30gp = 74pt pace.

Add to that he can't stay healthy and so has only gotten 70pts after three seasons despite being worth apparently the second most of all NHL players.

Matthews is alot like Tampa this year. Great on paper but then when push comes to shove its just a disappointment that was way overhyped.

 

[FlameChampion]

I cant see him taking anything less than 11.5 mil per season.

 

[Liferleafer]

Lol maybe in a career year. Everyone mentions that marner only got 94 because its a contract year but lets check out Matthews stats before/after signing his contract.

Before signing on 2/5: 46p in 38gp = 99pt pace.
After signing on 2/5: 27p in 30gp = 74pt pace.

Add to that he can't stay healthy and so has only gotten 70pts after three seasons despite being worth apparently the second most of all NHL players.

Matthews is alot like Tampa this year. Great on paper but then when push comes to shove its just a disappointment that was way overhyped.

What a terrible comparison...Tampa was overhyped, and when push came to shove (playoffs), they had the biggest choke job in NHL history. Matthews, when push came to shove had 5 goals and 6 points in 7 games.