Friedman: Leafs do not see Marner making more than Kane

[Tripod]

And how many of those wingers were on their 2nd contracts?

So you only want Marner compared to wingers on their 2nd contract now? Unfortunately, we all know things have changed regarding UFA's and RFA's.

This year 2 of the top 6 cap hits were 2nd contract...one being your boy Nylander.
Next year, the top 2 presently are...with Marner possibly joining them.

As I said before, rejoice that you have elite talent. Pay him, cut from your 30-50 point guys. Squeeze them. Or trade 1.

Dubas 100% will not trade Marner. The PR would be nightmare.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Dubby about to be played again

 

[Tripod]

I'd think a trade would be worked out first. As attractive as four first round picks are, I'd rather have something that helps out sooner, or more of a sure thing. If Philly starts competing, which with their roster they should, you could end up with four picks in the mid to late 20's... not that good.

Frost, 2019 1st and Sanheim would be preferable to me.

And the Flyers would say no. They would rather the 4 1sts.

But it's a moo point, Marner will be signed well before July 1. It's moo.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Dubby about to be played again

Only a matter of time. Marner isnt the right guy to have to deal with now since the deals he handed to Willy and AM after the season he just had.. My god

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I think many Leafs fans would be okay with Marner signing for $10 million X 8 years.

As they should. I dont think he gets as much as Matthews or Tavares but he has every right to. I think he will get ~10mil at 5-6 yrs. Just my guess.

 

[Fogelhund]

As they should. I dont think he gets as much as Matthews or Tavares but he has every right to. I think he will get ~10mil at 5-6 yrs. Just my guess.

I'm fine with $10 mil with term... the more the better. (term that is)

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

I think many Leafs fans would be okay with Marner signing for $10 million X 8 years.

Leaf fans would be jumping for joy if Marner signed that. And Dubas would have kinda redeemed himself

 

[Prongo]

And the Flyers can have him for the low, low price of their next four first round picks and the Leafs can decide how to spend their cap space dollars.

Offersheets are rarely used and more so
Likely the threat of one would help push trade talks in the right direction. I would still pay a hefty price but I’m sure flyers and Toronto fans won’t agree to what it is.

 

[BB88]

No one said he is average at all, but to paraphrase Mr. Lamoriello I think that most fans of the Leafs "care less about the name on the back then they do about the crest on the front".
Whatever improves the Leafs the most is what I am in favour of.
That could be a signed Mitch Marner at a certain cap hit or it could be four first round picks plus a boatload of cap space to spend.

C'moon now.

You don't trade Marner types, they don't just hit the market and neither should them.
He's been seen as a franchise player and untouchable for the Leafs for years now, with massive hype around him, once we get into contracts he's replacable.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Offersheets are rarely used and more so
Likely the threat of one would help push trade talks in the right direction. I would still pay a hefty price but I’m sure flyers and Toronto fans won’t agree to what it is.

How is the offer sheet a threat if you're offering less than 4 1st round picks in value?

"Take my trade offer of 3 1st round picks or I'll offersheet your player and pay you more while harming my own cap more than I need to."

 

[Prongo]

How is the offer sheet a threat if you're offering less than 4 1st round picks in value?

"Take my trade offer of 3 1st round picks or I'll offersheet your player and pay you more while harming my own cap more than I need to."

Dougie Hamilton got traded to Calgary while they dangled the offersheet. It’s not uncommon for teams to do this.

Especially if the team is looking for immediate help back...

Also, the cap is a very real danger here. The NHL isn’t hfboards where we hypothetically trade players all the time. Moving our cap space isn’t that simple. Leafs lacked depth, so it will be even more difficult to accommodate that need with a larger contract. So many variables to be taken into consideration.

 

[Seanaconda]

How is the offer sheet a threat if you're offering less than 4 1st round picks in value?

"Take my trade offer of 3 1st round picks or I'll offersheet your player and pay you more while harming my own cap more than I need to."

It’s still 10 mill x 5 year threat which is a decent contract.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Dougie Hamilton got traded to Calgary while they dangled the offersheet. It’s not uncommon for teams to do this.

Especially if the team is looking for immediate help back...

You'd have to threaten to offer sheet him for less than 10.1 or whatever the limit is for 4 1st round picks. The Leafs comfortably match that. If you threaten a 4 1st round pick offer sheet, why would we accept a trade for less than 4 1sts?

 

[DanM]

That would have been a Historic overpay so do you have a source on that?



Or maybe JT had a career year next to Marner. He improved his career high goals by 10 this year

And Marner increased his career high by 25 points?

JT did more for Mitch when you look at numbers

 

[DanM]

Leaf fans would be jumping for joy if Marner signed that. And Dubas would have kinda redeemed himself

I bet Marner comes in just a tad below 10. I could see a 9.5-9.78m per

 

[Seanaconda]

You'd have to threaten to offer sheet him for less than 10.1 or whatever the limit is for 4 1st round picks. The Leafs comfortably match that. If you threaten a 4 1st round pick offer sheet, why would we accept a trade for less than 4 1sts?

I think it kinda depends on what they offer. If it’s prospects /players dubas likes more than four darts at the draft maybe he values it more ?

And for the timeline you aren’t getting full value trading a first four years out so do you keep it and get a prospect that won’t be ready till Matthews contract is done ? Or do you trade them at a discount trying to push for the five year window before he gets a raise

 

[supsens]

Actually he put Marner on notice, sign by July 1st or accept that you may be playing elsewhere.

And what do you do if he calls your bluff and hasn’t signed by then? It seems like a really bad move

 

[Based Anime Fan]

Not sure I'm reading this right, but it appears that the Leafs only have about 5.3 million in cap space this coming season...

Not looking good. Still need 2 3/4D (Gardiner's and Hainsey's contracts are done) and 3 non-Marner RFAs to sort out. Even if Zaitsev is moved, that's only 9.8 million (unless my math is wrong). That leaves little to no breathing room.

I can't see that any of the D on the Marlies are ready to play those minutes (I don't think Liljegren or Holl are ready for big NHL minutes yet, and Rosen/Borgman were rather underwhelming as well), and

 

[Spawn]

Not sure I'm reading this right, but it appears that the Leafs only have about 5.3 million in cap space this coming season...

Not looking good. Still need a top 2 D nad 3 non-Marner RFAs to sort out. Even if Zaitsev is moved, that's only 9.8 million (unless my math is wrong). That leaves little to no breathing room.

That assumes the cap doesn't go up in the off-season. Also doesn't factor in the 5.3M that Horton makes that will end up on LTIR at the start of next season.

They'll be in a tight spot, but not quite as tight as at first look.

 

[Based Anime Fan]

That assumes the cap doesn't go up in the off-season. Also doesn't factor in the 5.3M that Horton makes that will end up on LTIR at the start of next season.

They'll be in a tight spot, but not quite as tight as at first look.

I thought that CF included LTIR into it's calculation of the available cap. Again, I may not be reading that right, as the season is concluded and the cap matters not in the post-season.

 

[Spawn]

I thought that CF included LTIR into it's calculation of the available cap. Again, I may not be reading that right, as the season is concluded and the cap matters not in the post-season.

No I don't believe so.

LTIR would only be factored in once the Leafs were actually at the cap and need to go over. Until that happens Horton still counts against the cap for them.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

That assumes the cap doesn't go up in the off-season. Also doesn't factor in the 5.3M that Horton makes that will end up on LTIR at the start of next season.

They'll be in a tight spot, but not quite as tight as at first look.

I can never quite get it right about how that LTIR thing works. Doesn't that cap hit count against the cap until the very start of the season, then can be LTIR'd and open up space? Meaning a team has to be at the cap INCLUDING Horton's contract until the season begins, but then can LTIR and has that cap space available when it does?

 

[Based Anime Fan]

I can never quite get it right about how that LTIR thing works. Doesn't that cap hit count against the cap until the very start of the season, then can be LTIR'd and open up space? Meaning a team has to be at the cap INCLUDING Horton's contract until the season begins, but then can LTIR and has that cap space available when it does?

LTIR doesn't free up space, per se, it ADDS that value to the cap for use, as a free overage that has no penalty. The player is still theoretically still part of the cap, but the team gets to add that dollar value to the cap to use.

The off season thing is that the team can go over the cap during the off season, but need to be compliant by the 1st day of the season

So it's far easier to say that they're removed from the cap calculation when really they aren't. It's a bit messy, but for expedience it's easier to say that the LTIR contact is 'off' the cap.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

LTIR doesn't free up space, per se, it ADDS that value to the cap for use, as a free overage that has no penalty. The player is still theoretically still part of the cap, but the team gets to add that dollar value to the cap to use.

So it's far easier to say that they're removed from the cap calculation when really they aren't. It's a bit messy, but for expedience it's easier to say that the LTIR contact is 'off' the cap.

I get that part. I'm more confused about the part where the off-season includes the LTIR contracts, no? Like, when the season begins then Horton's contract can be LTIR'd. But in the summer, isn't his contract essentially seen as any other contract on the books because LTIR doesn't apply yet?

 

[Spawn]

I can never quite get it right about how that LTIR thing works. Doesn't that cap hit count against the cap until the very start of the season, then can be LTIR'd and open up space? Meaning a team has to be at the cap INCLUDING Horton's contract until the season begins, but then can LTIR and has that cap space available when it does?

That I couldn't tell you. I think it usually requires a bit of finagling, but most teams seem to be able to finagle it. If they need it they'll be able to go $5M over the cap with a "replacement" for Horton.