Friedman: Leafs do not see Marner making more than Kane

[Based Anime Fan]

I get that part. I'm more confused about the part where the off-season includes the LTIR contracts, no? Like, when the season begins then Horton's contract can be LTIR'd. But in the summer, isn't his contract essentially seen as any other contract on the books because LTIR doesn't apply yet?

Yes. But in the off season the cap is not required the be complied to.

 

[plymouthmi]

This doesn't seem unreasonable. Wasn't Kane's current contract also signed when he was a UFA with more of a proven track record?

 

[Based Anime Fan]

This doesn't seem unreasonable. Wasn't Kane's current contract also signed when he was a UFA with more of a proven track record?

His contract seemed more like a 'Thanks for everything, here's money" than fair market value

 

[Tripod]

His contract seemed more like a 'Thanks for everything, here's money" than fair market value

Or a "we know you led our team in scoring and PPG, but we still want to pay you 1-2 million less than Matthews who has a career high 73 points. and want you to sign for more term'

take your pick.

 

[plymouthmi]

His contract seemed more like a 'Thanks for everything, here's money" than fair market value

Well my point was that Kane signed his extension when he was 25, had a few PPG seasons under his belt, a Calder trophy, a Conn Smythe, two Stanley Cups, and I think all the years were UFA. I don't think Marner should get paid more than that (I mean after considering inflation and increased cap).

 

[Hammettf2b]

I'm out of the loop here. Leaf's fans, is there any indication that Marner will take a team friendly deal?

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I'm fine with $10 mil with term... the more the better. (term that is)

Yeah I think term will be the main point of issue. Leafs will want Marner 10mx8yr and Marner will want 10mx4yr.... I am guessing it'll be somewhere in the middle

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

You forgot the third option "or until he trades you".

That would happen right before Dubas got fired.

Would love to hear him explain away how he effectively traded Marner so he could overpay Nylander.

 

[Tripod]

Well my point was that Kane signed his extension when he was 25, had a few PPG seasons under his belt, a Calder trophy, a Conn Smythe, two Stanley Cups, and I think all the years were UFA. I don't think Marner should get paid more than that (I mean after considering inflation and increased cap).

And what was Matthews resume compared to Crosby's?
It's not really hard to understand. Asking Marner to take less than 10.5, is asking Marner to take less $ per point, than Nylander got.

So you are asking Marner to take the 4th best $ per point, from your top 4 forwards.

 

[seanlinden]

Centre's make more money. The Tavares deal is perfectly fine and anyone that argues otherwise is wrong. Matthews is over paid....I don't see why that justifies doing it again with Marner? Marner at over 10 million would literally break the market for what a winger gets paid in hockey. I feel like people don't quite understand this lol. It would ripple around the league.

Pretty much this.

Look no further than Kane - Toews. Same contracts, Kane is a much better offensive player and much more creative. Toews plays centre.

While Marner is a better playmaker than Matthews, the reality is Matthews is a much better goalscorer, and has always played with superior linemates.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Pretty much this.

Look no further than Kane - Toews. Same contracts, Kane is a much better offensive player and much more creative. Toews plays centre.

While Marner is a better playmaker than Matthews, the reality is Matthews is a much better goalscorer, and has always played with superior linemates.

Eh, I think it's more an indication that Chicago was telling Kane and Toews they're both seen as the face(s) of the franchise. Similar to why Crosby/Malkin got pretty much even money.

If Toronto pays Marner less (and if it's less than $10 million, much less) than Matthews, they're essentially telling him they don't view him as a face of the franchise.

 

[plymouthmi]

And what was Matthews resume compared to Crosby's?
It's not really hard to understand. Asking Marner to take less than 10.5, is asking Marner to take less $ per point, than Nylander got.

So you are asking Marner to take the 4th best $ per point, from your top 4 forwards.

I think you're arguing against something I'm not saying. I am not a Leafs fan, I think both Matthews and Nylander are overpaid. I am talking specifically about what I personally think Marner is worth.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Actually he put Marner on notice, sign by July 1st or accept that you may be playing elsewhere.

Actually it is Marner who will be putting Dubas on notice if it gets to July 1 and he still unsigned. Dubas is not scaring anyone with the weak precedent he has set for himself in negotiations. He will be the one that blinks first. Marner holds all the cards. If he does not like how things are progressing, he Ferris, and his dad Paul will weigh offer sheets if what has been reported is correct and dictate where he wants to play. Not Dubas.

 

[Mersss]

that’s fine with me, have fun signing Kotka, Domi, Poehling, Suzuki + whoever else you guys draft after giving Marner the $11.5 he wants. All you’re doing at that point is giving yourself the same cap problems the leafs have now in the future...

excepts non of these players are going to make 11M$+

There all going to be in the 5-6-7M$ ish contract. Habs could very well make it work easily

 

[justafan22]

That would have been a Historic overpay so do you have a source on that?



Or maybe JT had a career year next to Marner. He improved his career high goals by 10 this year

https://www.tsn.ca/tavares-took-less-money-to-come-home-1.1128490

 

[DictatorTots427]

Clearly you don't watch basketball, baseball, Premier league soccer, and football

I actually do, and I haven't seen such an attitude with any other team. Of course there are other teams that people love to hate on, like Golden State, or Man City, but I've never seen such a high percentage of fans cheer for a team to be bad as the Leafs.

 

[Cotton]

Actually it is Marner who will be putting Dubas on notice if it gets to July 1 and he still unsigned. Dubas is not scaring anyone with the weak precedent he has set for himself in negotiations. He will be the one that blinks first. Marner holds all the cards. If he does not like how things are progressing, he Ferris, and his dad Paul will weigh offer sheets if what has been reported is correct and dictate where he wants to play. Not Dubas.

Fascinating take.

Mitch isnt nearly as involved in front-line negotiations as your fantasy seems to suggest. Marner is in control of his ability to price himself off the team, he doesnt control where he could be traded as a result of doing so. And it sound like, having learned from the Nylander negotiations, it might end up going that route.

If it reaches the point of offer-sheets then four 1st round picks will have to do. I dont know how many contenders have 11-12M available for a RW, I have a feeling it's not many, and if they are bottom feeders they might not want to part with four 1sts.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

I actually do, and I haven't seen such an attitude with any other team. Of course there are other teams that people love to hate on, like Golden State, or Man City, but I've never seen such a high percentage of fans cheer for a team to be bad as the Leafs.

Do you partake in forum boards with those leagues as well? Because since you see more opinions here than general discussion gives in public, it may seem that way

 

[supsens]

Fascinating take.

Mitch isnt nearly as involved in front-line negotiations as your fantasy seems to suggest. Marner is in control of his ability to price himself off the team, he doesnt control where he could be traded as a result of doing so. And it sound like, having learned from the Nylander negotiations, it might end up going that route.

If it reaches the point of offer-sheets then four 1st round picks will have to do. I dont know how many contenders have 11-12M available for a RW, I have a feeling it's not many, and if they are bottom feeders they might not want to part with four 1sts.

He can just hold out and handcuff the leafs from signing anyone but he won’t have to because this sounds like the starting offer is 10.5

 

[Dr Quincy]

I get that part. I'm more confused about the part where the off-season includes the LTIR contracts, no? Like, when the season begins then Horton's contract can be LTIR'd. But in the summer, isn't his contract essentially seen as any other contract on the books because LTIR doesn't apply yet?

No. Teams are allowed to be over the cap during the summer.

 

[Cotton]

He can just hold out and handcuff the leafs from signing anyone but he won’t have to because this sounds like the starting offer is 10.5

He cant hold out if he's traded, I dont think Dubas wants any part of a stalemate. Get the sense Marner will be told, and offered, their best offer, and if he wont sign they'll move on.

 

[BlueStorm]

This is a tax calculator to compare teams and tax implications.

Tax Calculator | Gavin Group

There’s an interesting Forbes article about Tavares not taking less money to go home.
He would be a resident of the US (NY) and could easily move to Florida and still pay taxes in the states and lease a condo in Toronto.

 

[Seanaconda]

He cant hold out if he's traded, I dont think Dubas wants any part of a stalemate. Get the sense Marner will be told, and offered, their best offer, and if he wont sign they'll move on.

Well this trade should be great.

Anyways that's a bad look imho . Hold out and overpay nylander. Sign Matthews early overpay.

Local kid that has been great , undercut him and insta trade .

 

[axlrose87]

Fascinating take.

Mitch isnt nearly as involved in front-line negotiations as your fantasy seems to suggest. Marner is in control of his ability to price himself off the team, he doesnt control where he could be traded as a result of doing so. And it sound like, having learned from the Nylander negotiations, it might end up going that route.

If it reaches the point of offer-sheets then four 1st round picks will have to do. I dont know how many contenders have 11-12M available for a RW, I have a feeling it's not many, and if they are bottom feeders they might not want to part with four 1sts.

It might be time for leafs fans to just let this thread be and let all the haters do their thing.
On sportsnet (responding to mailbag questions), the debate on there is whether marner should exceed the 9.5 number set by stone and kucherov.
Here you have a bunch of guys telling leafs fans it's going to be 11.5- 12.
Theses guys are only trying to stoke fires. Let them be and discuss in the leafs forum.

 

[A1LeafNation]

It might be time for leafs fans to just let this thread be and let all the haters do their thing.
On sportsnet (responding to mailbag questions), the debate on there is whether marner should exceed the 9.5 number set by stone and kucherov.
Here you have a bunch of guys telling leafs fans it's going to be 11.5- 12.
Theses guys are only trying to stoke fires. Let them be and discuss in the leafs forum.

They have nothing left after this. They jump from one guy to the next. It's hilarious.