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Friedman: Leafs do not see Marner making more than Kane

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Empoleon8771 said:
Literally 0 relevance and it's not even true if we're talking about young Toews and young Kane.



And Marner can actually stay healthy for a full season.
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Ummm yes he did. Patrick Kane has scored more overall and at a higher per game rate since the beginning of their careers. The only thing toews had was a .06gpg advantage during elc. Which evaporated

Auston matthews has been one of the best goal scorers in the league since he started. He has been better in elc in every facet other than flashy dives for pucks and empty net points.

The fact that a MUCH better winger in Chicago got the same as a worse C proves that Marner is not worth Matthews money

Play around on hockey reference. You can combine the first 3 years of careers. I think you will be surprised just how good Matthews has been.
 
Clark34 said:
Ummm yes he did. Patrick Kane has scored more overall and at a higher per game rate since the beginning of their careers. The only thing toews had was a .06gpg advantage during elc. Which evaporated
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And which one of those two was in the discussion for "best player in the world" back during those times? It's interesting that points aren't the only thing that matters here, especially when you're talking about 2 players with less than a 10 points/82 difference in production over the first 3 years of their careers.

Auston matthews has been one of the best goal scorers in the league since he started. He has been better in elc in every facet other than flashy dives for pucks and empty net points.

The fact that a MUCH better winger in Chicago got the same as a worse C proves that Marner is not worth Matthews money
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Lol okay sure, whatever you want to believe.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
And which one of those two was in the discussion for "best player in the world" back during those times? It's interesting that points aren't the only thing that matters here, especially when you're talking about 2 players with less than a 10 points/82 difference in production over the first 3 years of their careers.



Lol okay sure, whatever you want to believe.
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First. Yes. Contracts are determined primarily by production

Second. Yes. Kane has been Better than toews at all times. He was a higher draft pick. Higher ceiling. Produced more throughout their years. Toews is a big C. Kane is a small winger. That’s why people
Thought they were close.

Matthews has 50 more goals than Marner in 30’less games. He has led the league in multiple per game categories and is top 5
In goals. Marner has never even reached top 10 in points. Matthews was 2 in the league in goals and led the league 5 on 5 as a rookie. Playing with Hyman and brown he is elite.

If you think subjective opinions matter then hey Matthews has a Calder over Marner. 3 time all star and was 4th in the tsn players poll this year.

Of course that doesn’t count though
 
A winger can be better then centremans although a centreman that fair more value. Player (agents) will negotiate based on season performance and will leverage the player most recent season.

In the case of marner, as an “neutral fan” marner is absolutely not a Mathews level player, even physically he has a huge edge on marner.

That being said marner posted 94 points.
Mathews suffered an injury again, at 73 in 68 rounds up to 88 points. Player agents will just leverage that.

by 94 points>88 points.
Age wise same.
Production wise 94 point player is better then 88, although we all know marner has taveres to thank) his agent will use that fact not to mention at no point was Mathews ever close to that type of production. His agent might even use Patrick Kane. Add it the fact in the agents point of view Dubas is literally just a kid, who was lucky enough to get some work due to family connections. So agents will walk all over him and for marner he will push for 11 mill or he’s gone.
 
Opposing team fans telling us how much better Marner is than Matthews.

In the future, opposing team fans will be calling Marner overpaid after he signs for less than Matthews.
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
I brought up Kane and Toews to show that they took the same deal after their ELCs. I brought them up to say that Marner was going to get something very similar to Matthews, not that Marner was going to get something similar to Kane in 2011.
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Kane was always the noticeably better player than Toews, which is why the contract gap was narrowed as that offset the importance of the center position. With the Leafs Marner and Matthew's produce at similar rates yet Matthew's is by far the better goal scorer.

Its not at all similar to the Kane-Toews situation
 
780il said:
Well that's our problem. You should focus on winning a playoff series first. Or even getting to next season having survived cap hell. Cheers and good luck
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Then that’s our problem, why are you here if not to stir the pot?
 
Menzinger said:
Kane was always the noticeably better player than Toews, which is why the contract gap was narrowed as that offset the importance of the center position. With the Leafs Marner and Matthew's produce at similar rates yet Matthew's is by far the better goal scorer.

Its not at all similar to the Kane-Toews situation
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It wasn’t the position that decided on the contracts, they had two guys that were around the same age that were the teams best two players that turned the franchise around, they were rewarded as the go to guys and the future of the franchise, it’s the same thing the leafs should do. Neither Mathews or JT has ever got 94 points and neither out produced Marner, the center gets paid more is not a thing, they just tend to be the most productive, in this case they are not
Dallas paid the goto guys the same, The hawks did also,
 
9-9.5m x 6 or 9.5-10m x 7.

Comparables put him roughly in that range. If it's under 9.5 I think the Leafs got a good deal, between 9.5 and 10 its market value, anything over 10 and it's too high for what hes accomplished so far as a playmaking winger.
 
hyduK said:
Yes.

It's not like they're going to get rid of Marner and just not do anything with that 11 million cap dollars and 4 1st rounders. The expectation is that they would use that to make the D better and sign some help at forward.
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Nobody is signing him for the above 2, 1sts, 2nd and 3rd dollar amount. And without Marner (who was their best player) they won't replicate this year.
 
TML1967 said:
9-9.5m x 6 or 9.5-10m x 7.

Comparables put him roughly in that range. If it's under 9.5 I think the Leafs got a good deal, between 9.5 and 10 its market value, anything over 10 and it's too high for what hes accomplished so far as a playmaking winger.
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I think you're going to end up being disappointed.
 
Clark34 said:
First. Yes. Contracts are determined primarily by production

Second. Yes. Kane has been Better than toews at all times. He was a higher draft pick. Higher ceiling. Produced more throughout their years. Toews is a big C. Kane is a small winger. That’s why people
Thought they were close.

Matthews has 50 more goals than Marner in 30’less games. He has led the league in multiple per game categories and is top 5
In goals. Marner has never even reached top 10 in points. Matthews was 2 in the league in goals and led the league 5 on 5 as a rookie. Playing with Hyman and brown he is elite.

If you think subjective opinions matter then hey Matthews has a Calder over Marner. 3 time all star and was 4th in the tsn players poll this year.

Of course that doesn’t count though
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You seem to be saying that Matthews is underpaid?
 
stator said:
You seem to be saying that Matthews is underpaid?
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No. I don’t think Marner should be getting matthews money.

Matthews is a better player and has produced more with worse linemates.

Whether or not Matthews is overpaid.
 
Blueboy said:
Opposing team fans telling us how much better Marner is than Matthews.

In the future, opposing team fans will be calling Marner overpaid after he signs for less than Matthews.
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Honestly, there's room for both of those things to be true. Matthews' AAV is absolutely too high for a contract that only buys a single UFA year. And, regardless of who might be better going forward, Marner was the better of the 2 last season.
 
Menzinger said:
Kane was always the noticeably better player than Toews, which is why the contract gap was narrowed as that offset the importance of the center position. With the Leafs Marner and Matthew's produce at similar rates yet Matthew's is by far the better goal scorer.

Its not at all similar to the Kane-Toews situation
Click to expand...

This is revisionist history. If anything, Toews was widely regarded as superior.
 
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