Friedman: Leafs do not see Marner making more than Kane

[TheBeastCoast]

Strange argument to make considering winger Kane has gotten the same exact contract as center Toews both times.

I mean Kane is a far superior offensive talent to Toews....Marner isnt compared to Matthew's. Centres that score a bunch of goals make more money then wingers. I didnt think this was a hot take...but here we are.

 

[Contenderorpretender]

So capfriendly was correct. The Sharks can still potentially still offer sheet Marner. There is the answer to your original question.

You're ridiculous. They dont have their pick! It's not theirs. So no they cant. They would need to acquire their own pick to do it.

So until they have their own pick back. The answer is NO!

 

[4thline]

I am not sure exactly how the RFA compensation is calculated but if it is percentage of cap consistent than if the cap goes to $83m, $10.66m would be the threshold before 4 1sts.

To me 5 x $10.66m then becomes the starting point for Marners contract.

Other teams can confidently offer that and only give up 1-1-2-3.

Yes Toronto would match. So again that's where I think Marners camp places the bar at minimum.

I believe the 2nd tier will come into play, but just because that is the max they can offer at that level doesn't mean it's what they will actually offer

 

[93gilmour93]

You're ridiculous. They dont have their pick! It's not theirs. So no they cant. They would need to acquire their own pick to do it.

So until they have their own pick back. The answer is NO!

I think he finally understands. Lmao

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You're ridiculous. They dont have their pick! It's not theirs. So no they cant. They would need to acquire their own pick to do it.

So until they have their own pick back. The answer is NO!

I am quoting capfriendly directly. Email them if you want. If you think their information is wrong.

 

[93gilmour93]

I am quoting capfriendly directly. Email them if you want. If you think their information is wrong.

So capfriendly says you don't need your own picks to offer sheet someone? Can you quote that specific comment on the website?

 

[Contenderorpretender]

I think he finally understands. Lmao

Doubt it.

 

[93gilmour93]

Doubt it.

You right. He still doesn't.

 

[Loosie]

Good luck trying to convince Marner and his agent.

Marner should be easy to convince. It's his agent and his dad that are the issues. Marner's probably already making a killing in endorsements. The Leafs brass can also try and sell taking a 'team friendly' 9.5 and be seen as a hero (when 9.5 is actually fair value for him)

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Just curious how many "perennial " contenders have the cap space to make a move like this?

Hypothetically speaking, the Pens could this off-season since it looks like Kessel is 100% gone and Maatta is 90% gone. Clearing those two off the books nets the Pens almost $11 million in cap space.

I'm sure other contenders could, if they felt Marner was the missing piece.

 

[lawrence]

at the same time Tavares shouldn't be making more then Crosby.

Dubas is a push over gm. Experiences Agents is gonna walk all over him like a kid he is. Did Toronto actually consider this when hiring a 29 year old gm? Look at the guy, sure he does his best to look professional and mature at the end of the day, he's new to this job, and the leaf players agents will milk every penny and get every dollar of their worth. Good luck with the expecting players to take a pay cut. I'm not sure what Laurnce Gillman is telling Dubas. Mike Gillis was able to pull it off, and I'm sure Lawrence Gillman is probably telling him that what Gillis did.

that said no way he's Patrick Kane money. But would love to see him eat up Leafs precious cap space.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

CapFriendly does say that the Sharks can offer an offer sheet to Marner at the ~$10.2M figure which requires four first round picks as compensation, but after reading the CBA I’m pretty sure they actually got that wrong.

 

[lawrence]

CapFriendly does say that the Sharks can offer an offer sheet to Marner at the ~$10.2M figure which requires four first round picks as compensation, but after reading the CBA I’m pretty sure they actually got that wrong.

yea but how much allocation of cap room for Karlsson or are the sharks done with him?

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Oh for sure, Colorado will have no problem signing Rantenen but if Marner starts at 10.5 million and leafs want to sign him asap then I see no reason Rantenen cant point at Marner's contract and ask for more.

Ya it is a bad shift for the league paying RFA top dollars and will probably start to hurt the cap floor teams soon.

I agree the Matthews contract has reset the landscape again. Dubas must have really though a OS was possible which I think is a mistake.

I dont see why Point would take a bridge though. If everyone else is getting their nice long term lockout proof contracts I don't see why he would be okay taking a short term bridge that may end up with him getting screwed during a potential lockout in a few years.

Marner has more leverage because the Leafs cannot match offer sheets due to their cap situation.

Rantanen can point to certain comparable contracts, and they will drive up his value, but Colorado also has the luxury of being able to say no and drag it out beyond July 1st. Rantanen could sign an offer sheet, but a team is going to have to be willing to pay him far beyond his actual value AND give up 4 1st round picks. This is because Colorado can (and I assume will) match anything other than an absurd overpayment.

With Marner, if the Leafs are drawing the line in the sand at 10.5M, that's a pretty easy offer sheet situation. It's not a scenario where a team has to pay Marner 15 or 16 million to force the Leafs not to match. A team could come in with a 6 year 12 million dollar contract and the Leafs would not match. I think that's why we'll see Marner dealt at the draft.

I think the best offer sheet situation for a team would be to negotiate what amounts to an unofficial 9 year contract with Marner. Basically the team says, we have the cap space now, we'll give you a 1 year contract at close to max with the verbal understanding that next off season we extend you 8 years at 12 million. That way, it's really a front loaded 9 year 12.52 million dollar AAV contract (1 year at 16.7+8 years at 12). Now of course, Marner's qualifying offer would be max, and he could turn around and screw the team by refusing to sign the second contract next off season, but the odds of an agent and player burning a team like that are probably not high. While a 12M AAV is very high right now, if Marner can continue as he is, it won't take long before just like the contracts Eichel and Draisaitl got, that it settles in nicely and becomes below market value due to the rising cap.

 

[Notabaguette]

I'm pretty sure the leafs don't really look at salary caps properly and other salaries properly judging by how much they have overpaid on many of their players.

One of the only contracts they got right is Kadri

I would say they screwed up on the following..Nylander, Matthews, Zaitsev, Hainsey and Marleau

 

[The Winter Soldier]

So capfriendly says you don't need your own picks to offer sheet someone? Can you quote that specific comment on the website?

Capfriendly lists the Sharks. Bob Mckenzie cites and uses them. If you want to email them. Go ahead. But the point was who which contender has the picks and cap room to offer sheet Marner. Look below @Contenderorpretender

Offer Sheet Calculator - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

$10,148,303 - ∞ 4 First Round Picks

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[93gilmour93]

Capfriendly lists the Sharks. Bob Mckenzie cites and uses them. If you want to email them. Go ahead. But the point was who which contender has the picks and cap room to offer sheet Marner. Look below @Contenderorpretender

Offer Sheet Calculator - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

$10,148,303 - ∞ 4 First Round Picks

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I don't need to email anyone to know that you need your own picks to offer sheet players. It's been the same for years. Sharks have the cap space but don't own the picks to make it happen

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

yea but how much allocation of cap room for Karlsson or are the sharks done with him?

Sharks are going to offer Karlsson whatever he wants and it’s going to be his decision. Nobody knows what he’s going to do but I expect him to re-sign.

Marner isn’t a realistic target for them.

 

[Xanner]

CapFriendly does say that the Sharks can offer an offer sheet to Marner at the ~$10.2M figure which requires four first round picks as compensation, but after reading the CBA I’m pretty sure they actually got that wrong.

I also believe they got that wrong, SJ doesn't have their 2020 first rounder they would need to re- acquire it from Ottawa if they wanted to put out an offer sheet to Marner.

You need to own your own picks to attempt an offer sheet.

 

[4chandler]

So worst case is an offer sheet where the Leafs get 4 firsts they can use to make two blockbuster deals and use cap room to take a run at a big name.

Actually with 8 firsts in 4 years the Leafs would have the ammo to make block buster every year.

I'm supposed to be upset as a Leafs fan over this situation? It's win or win.

 

[Loosie]

Try this. All teams listed with their logos that can tender an offer sheet in the following range. The Sharks logo is there at the moment.

$10,148,303 - ∞

4 First Round Picks

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Offer Sheet Calculator - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

So which page is correct? Maybe they didn't update the 'Offer Sheet Calculator'. The Sharks do not currently hold their 2020 1st Round pick, the Sens own it.

San Jose Sharks - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Loosie]

at the same time Tavares shouldn't be making more then Crosby.

Dubas is a push over gm. Experiences Agents is gonna walk all over him like a kid he is. Did Toronto actually consider this when hiring a 29 year old gm? Look at the guy, sure he does his best to look professional and mature at the end of the day, he's new to this job, and the leaf players agents will milk every penny and get every dollar of their worth. Good luck with the expecting players to take a pay cut. I'm not sure what Laurnce Gillman is telling Dubas. Mike Gillis was able to pull it off, and I'm sure Lawrence Gillman is probably telling him that what Gillis did.

that said no way he's Patrick Kane money. But would love to see him eat up Leafs precious cap space.

Except the reports are that Tavares took less by signing with Toronto....

 

[Nizdizzle]

at the same time Tavares shouldn't be making more then Crosby.

Dubas is a push over gm. Experiences Agents is gonna walk all over him like a kid he is. Did Toronto actually consider this when hiring a 29 year old gm? Look at the guy, sure he does his best to look professional and mature at the end of the day, he's new to this job, and the leaf players agents will milk every penny and get every dollar of their worth. Good luck with the expecting players to take a pay cut. I'm not sure what Laurnce Gillman is telling Dubas. Mike Gillis was able to pull it off, and I'm sure Lawrence Gillman is probably telling him that what Gillis did.

that said no way he's Patrick Kane money. But would love to see him eat up Leafs precious cap space.

This is the hottest of takes. A laughably foolish post, really. You realize older GMs offered Tavares more than the Leafs did, right?

 

[WingsMJN2965]

I mean Kane is a far superior offensive talent to Toews....Marner isnt compared to Matthew's. Centres that score a bunch of goals make more money then wingers. I didnt think this was a hot take...but here we are.

When they signed their identical contracts in '09 Toews had .84 PPG while Kane had .87 PPG.

In the three seasons before their identical contracts in '14, Toews had .95 PPG while Kane had .96 PPG.

So no, Kane wasn't far superior offensively when they signed those deals. It's the last few years after they were signed that Toews fell off. Add that to the fact that Toews was the Selke winner in 12-13, and third in voting in 13-14.

... And then consider that Marner is only .04 PPG (One point every 25 games) behind Matthews.

 

[TehDoak]

The situation was pretty obvious yeah...

I'm sure it was. At that point we never saw a contract worth 11+ on a yearly cap hit but you saw it coming with the Leafs kids. Lol

People saw 3 players with 60+ point seasons in their rookie/2nd year. Signing a player to essentially unvoidable contract that overlaps with them become RFAs was stupid. There was a reason no team would give Marleau 3 years. 35+ contracts are awful.