Post-Game Talk: Leafs complete their annual October punking by LA

[GoonieFace]

MacKinnon tried his hardest for a long time, but couldn't get it done.

I don't think he only tried hard one year...

Did the Leafs try harder in series one last year compared to all other years?

Trying isn’t probably the right word. Some guys just don’t have it in them. Marner is a great point producer, but doesn’t seem to have that extra gear when it’s needed. Willy seems to be able to turn it on when he wants to. Some are just regular season heroes that don’t have the strength to work through it when the game gets faster

 

[Gary Nylund]

Marner is a great a player to get value you trade value and its not personal. i.e. derozan

Its what the team (maybe locker room) needs like you said to win when it counts

Exactly! Gotta give to get and the Derozan trade is a great example. He's a guy we drafted and did nothing but work his ass off 365 days a year and kept getting better but like you said, it's not personal, winning should be the only priority and if trading him is good for the team then you do it.

But whatever, too late now, we're stuck with this core now.

 

[rumman]

Matthews seems to be settling into his 2022-23 pattern of brief flashes of brilliance, doing a lot of good little things that don't really build momentum to a consistent breakthrough and then fizzles out into a lot of average playing He's looking off shots, timing looks off, the skating and power is there sometimes and then its energy saver mode at other times.

I’m convinced he could be the 2nd best player in the league if he didn’t mail it in on a regular basis………

 

[GoonieFace]

I don't understand how anyone thinks it's a good idea or how they can't see how bad he is. I'm sure he's a great guy and fun to be around but this it's embarrassing to think they need to troll around a terrible player that isn't doing anything because he might be able to throw a punch once every 20 games.

We have to be one of the few teams carrying a useless player and handicapping our lineup for that useless player when there are multiple players ten times the player he is to help.

He is absolutely a terrible hockey player. I would still rather pay him 1.3 mil to punch someone every so often than pay a Marner $12 mil to put up some impressive regular season stats and lay down when it matters most

 

[SprDaVE]

He is absolutely a terrible hockey player. I would still rather pay him 1.3 mil to punch someone every so often than pay a Marner $12 mil to put up some impressive regular season stats and lay down when it matters most

I'd rather have Marner at 15M than Reaves at 700k. I wouldn't even play Reaves if his cap hit was 0.

Marner has his personal performance issues but he's a world class player and the thought that you'd rather have Reaves than Marner is just... ok dude.

 

[rumman]

Surprised Matthews isn’t getting more heat.

No pressure to perform, he’s got his deal…….

Are we going to have to wait for the deadline before we make a trade? The defence outside of Rielly and Lily looks bad and the only good complimentary forwards are Knies and Bertuzzi who we can’t seem to utilize properly.

I thought Lilly has a bad game…….

 

[Stephen]

I’m convinced he could be the 2nd best player in the league if he didn’t mail it in on a regular basis………

When he was drafted Babcock called him an elite drive train player. And over the years I find the biggest downside is that drive train is not always there game to game shift to shift.

 

[67leafs]

Bertuasi and Domi are disasters. Domi looked like an idiot trying to sucker one of the Kings in!

 

[notbias]

Trying isn’t probably the right word. Some guys just don’t have it in them. Marner is a great point producer, but doesn’t seem to have that extra gear when it’s needed. Willy seems to be able to turn it on when he wants to. Some are just regular season heroes that don’t have the strength to work through it when the game gets faster

Like MacKinnon for every other season minus 1... couldn't get his team over the hump... his entire career is second round exists, missing the playoffs and one outlier... I am just saying there is a lot more than just what you are implying.

 

[GoonieFace]

I'd rather have Marner at 15M than Reaves at 700k. I wouldn't even play Reaves if his cap hit was 0.

Marner has his personal performance issues but he's a world class player and the thought that you'd rather have Reaves than Marner is just... ok dude.

Obviously context is important here. In a non cap world obviously I would rather have Marner. But paying Marner that big of a cap hit will not help the balance of this team. It hasn’t worked for going on 7 years now, a shakeup of this core is needed and he should be the guy moved

 

[rumman]

I think this sums it up well.

"If our core 4 doesn't dominate and score, our bottom six forwards are NOT GOOD ENOUGH because we lack the cap room to hire better players....Our D-group is not nearly good enough either."

I have low expectations for this season. Life is easier that way.

or in other words…..”can’t have half your cap mailing it in and expect to win……..”

 

[GoonieFace]

Like MacKinnon for every other season minus 1... couldn't get his team over the hump... his entire career is second round exists, missing the playoffs and one outlier... I am just saying there is a lot more than just what you are implying.

Playoffs

MacKinnon - 1.3ppg
Marner - 0.94 ppg

Seems like MacKinnon shows up at least.

 

[rumman]

Most likely, but they both have to be better than McCabe and we don't have the assets IMO. We'll see.

No cap room for better D, sure you could replace the crap you got with different crap, but no reason to think that will work any better that the original crap…….

 

[notbias]

Playoffs

MacKinnon - 1.3ppg
Marner - 0.94 ppg

Seems like MacKinnon shows up at least.

He also didn't play much when he was younger...

Marner has been PPG over the last three years... this obsession to punish our players because they were good enough to make the playoffs since their rookie year is weird.

Not to mention, we've played primarily good defensive teams or teams with HOF goalies...

Washington/Florida are the only two teams we realistically should have been producing well against.

 

[GoonieFace]

He also didn't play much when he was younger...

Marner has been PPG over the last three years... this obsession to punish our players because they were good enough to make the playoffs since their rookie year is weird.

Not to mention, we've played primarily good defensive teams or teams with HOF goalies...

Washington/Florida are the only two teams we realistically should have been producing well against.

Well, at least you have a well prepared list of excuses

 

[Niagara Bill]

They are human and even if you want to say it, its impossible youre being at 100% all the time, every day at your Job... some day you will be more better than other and its normal.

Exemple your baby cried all night long and you didn't slept pretty well, thats will affect your productivity. Being at 80-85% vs 100% most of the time its when we say at team had bren outwork. We dont talk about a team being at 30-60% but just losing 20% of his energy. Thats making all the difference of the world


Domi i dont know what youre expected, he did it during all his carreer...

Bertuzzi is not a lack of work sorry, but he was looking lost at time on the ice. Its different

Tavares outwork over 99% of NHL player and thats why he had that kind of carreer and why hes the captain. Just few player was working as hard than he did. We can blame jt for a lot of things past years but certainly not for his work ethic.

I expect Domi to work since he lacks speed and talent

You guys want players who will show up in the playoffs but then write them off after 10 games of regular season hockey. Bertuzzi played hurt for the majority of those as well btw.

Bertuzzi is a dress and forget player. Focus on other things.

Dress and forget? He has forgotten how to put out!

 

[JL17]

I ain't eating that before I go to bed...lol.

MacKinnon and Landeskog have a ton of "will", lots more than Matthews and Marner.

If you go back and look at their interviews when they were eliminated from the playoffs before the cup win they’ve very different then the Marner and co interviews. What they said especially Mackinnon comes from within. It’s on them where Marner and co deflect and don’t blame themselves.

 

[GoonieFace]

If you go back and look at their interviews when they were eliminated from the playoffs before the cup win they’ve very different then the Marner and co interviews. What they said especially Mackinnon comes from within. It’s on them where Marner and co deflect and don’t blame themselves.

I guess that’s what happens in an environment such as the Leafs. Dubas ruined this young group from day 1.

Marner just doesn’t have the speed and strength to play playoff style hockey. Time and space shrinks and he can’t make the adjustments. That’s why most of his chances are from miles away

 

[-DeMo-]

Mitch needs a few more Empty net goals to pad his stats. Talk about an embarrassing month for the best RWer to ever play the game. He's got lots of work to do to win the Selke let alone the Hart as one poster predicted.

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Meanwhile in Boston, Pasta just keeps on getting it done. No Bergeron or Krejci, no problem.

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Marner always starts of slow, and end with 90-99 points. last year he had 8 in first 9 games aswell, the year before 3 in his first 9, and he ended the season's with 97 and 99 points. I remember how hard we tried to get him over the 100 point mark for the first time in the final game. well it's because of his starts to the year. and it's pretty clear that once mitch gets his game going he's a big influence on this team. when he struggles the team struggles when he's on his game and playing well we win.

Marner has been a notoriously slow starter and that's the biggest question mark on why?

 

[rumman]

Marner always starts of slow, and end with 90-99 points. last year he had 8 in first 9 games aswell, the year before 3 in his first 9, and he ended the season's with 97 and 99 points. I remember how hard we tried to get him over the 100 point mark for the first time in the final game. well it's because of his starts to the year. and it's pretty clear that once mitch gets his game going he's a big influence on this team. when he struggles the team struggles when he's on his game and playing well we win.

Marner has been a notoriously slow starter and that's the biggest question mark on why?

Starts the season slow, and finishes it poorly. Not the way to bookend a hockey season imo…….

 

[KillerMillerTime]

If you go back and look at their interviews when they were eliminated from the playoffs before the cup win they’ve very different then the Marner and co interviews. What they said especially Mackinnon comes from within. It’s on them where Marner and co deflect and don’t blame themselves.

Matthews is a much bigger and stronger player than Marner, so IMO he is the more capable of bringing more instigated physicality.

I'm a Boston fan but also a big USA Hockey guy so I would like to see Matthews
round out his game a bit more. He isn't shy about battling for the puck on the boards
but a bit more willingness to lay a guy out occasionally would help his game.

 

[Aashir]

Soft defense core stuck in a bad defensive system. How many times will those D cough up the puck and be unable to exit the zone?


I disagree with the Matthews comment. He's been doing so much more than scoring goals. And every time he touches the puck I'm amazed as the hands. The things he can do...

But what do those amazing plays result in? Almost chances, almost goals: shot wide, off the crossbar, or into the goalie. At the end of the day, he just isn’t matching the production level needed from him

People talk about our 5v5 goal scoring, well when Marner has 3 points and Matthews has 4 it’s no wonder we aren’t doing much. That’s our first line being pretty awful, we need them to step up

it’s very early into the season so pace doesn’t really matter, but he’s only 1 point over ppg after the b2b hattricks, at some point those nice plays have to result in goals or assists

Mitch needs a few more Empty net goals to pad his stats. Talk about an embarrassing month for the best RWer to ever play the game. He's got lots of work to do to win the Selke let alone the Hart as one poster predicted.

View attachment 761141

Meanwhile in Boston, Pasta just keeps on getting it done. No Bergeron or Krejci, no problem.

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It’s wild how they got Pasternak on 11.25 his best years are even higher than Marner’s.

Boston as a whole is so solid, playing like the top team of the Atlantic. If you told someone that in 2020 they’d laugh at you expecting them to tear it down. Doesn’t seem like they’ll ever bottom out

 

[therealkoho]

Boy oh boy. I would expect Keefe to have reamed them a new one after that piss poor showing

Expect an apology later today, because words!

"and the beat goes on, that wheel in the sky keeps on turning, we have all been here before, nothing ever changes, gotta couple of couches sleep on the love seat!"

Your song references for the day, they just seem applicable to this team. Lets look for the brightside of life and hopefully there are no apologies, it would be a step in the right direction.

 

[therealkoho]

Surprised Matthews isn’t getting more heat.

Uh uh uh, no no no mustn't dust up those drew drew, drew suede shoes!

You can't expect him to show up all the time he's busy y'know attending to other stuff.

 

[Fogelhund]

Marner 4 points in the last 7 games.
Matthews 5 points in the last 7 games.

These two in particular, just haven't been good enough. Marner... I don't know, he's just not playing like Marner of the past... no idea why. The passing isn't good, the drive isn't good.

If you pay this collection that much, they have to become clutch players, and they simply aren't so far.

I get it, just one game.. on the end of a long road trip, but these two in particular, we need more from them, on a consistent basis.

Reaves just isn't a hockey player. Bertuzzi hasn't been near good enough...

That Boston game is pretty important... Boston will be without two of the top four D... so we better show up for that one.