Proposal: Leafs - Canucks 3 for 3 block buster

[iBELEAF]

Leafs laugh
Virtanen is awful

 

[Gavy]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BILDp-9gYAg/

Let's not forget that Nylander is just a small centre and Virtanen is elite

 

[Cupless44]

So Virtanen is elite and Nylander is small lmfao. Yiu have no idea what you're talking about lmfao.

This kid is small https://www.instagram.com/p/BILDp-9gYAg/

Virtanen is raw and has a ways to go. I am not saying he is elite at 19 after 50 NHL games. What I was saying is that if he reaches his potential as a top level power forward, that and good defenceman are harder to find than offensive centres.

Calling a power forward elite at 19 would make about as much sense as writing off a power forward at 19.

I can see that Nylander has added some size and is up to 190. A bit below average NHL size but he can definitely excel at that weight. He will need to show a bit more intensity and attention to the defensive side of the game though to be the super star Leaf fans claim him to be already.

I think both these players will be good, albeit in different ways. Far too early to be drawing conclusions on either players career.

 

[CamelToews]

Not close for me. Rather explore options like Nylander for a Provorov or Werenski calibre D prospect if Zaitsev disappoints. This trade leaves us with a still mediocre-at-best defense and Virtanen does nothing for me.

Only way this makes sense is if you see Gardiner as a "4 or 5 guy", in which case there's no rational discussion to be had.

You must not watch Tanev play.

 

[Gavy]

Virtanen is raw and has a ways to go. I am not saying he is elite at 19 after 50 NHL games. What I was saying is that if he reaches his potential as a top level power forward, that and good defenceman are harder to find than offensive centres.

Calling a power forward elite at 19 would make about as much sense as writing off a power forward at 19.

I can see that Nylander has added some size and is up to 190. A bit below average NHL size but he can definitely excel at that weight. He will need to show a bit more intensity and attention to the defensive side of the game though to be the super star Leaf fans claim him to be already.

I think both these players will be good, albeit in different ways. Far too early to be drawing conclusions on either players career.

I never saw any Leaf fans calling Nylander a superstar already. I only saw 1 person calling Virtanen elite...
What if Nylander reaches his potential? Are elite #1c's easy to find?

Also, Nylander was 190 at the beginning of last season. That's a picture of him from like a weak ago.

 

[CamelToews]

Tanev is for sure an attractive piece from Vancouver. I doubt I'd be willing to trade away the big 4 from TO, but if Benning is a gambling man, I might be open to trading away next years first for the Leafs unprotected + another piece (not Matthews, Rielly, Nylander or Marner) for Tanev.

We aren't trading an unprotected 1st.

 

[Zaddy91]

Gardiner <<<<<<<Tanev
Nylander > Virtanen
Brown/Soshnikov <<<<<< Hutton

Idk if the difference between Nylander and Virtanen makes up for the other parts of the deal.

fixed

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

This proposal is absolutely rediculous.

And the fact leaf fans are saying no to it is even funnier. Canucks lose this trade big time. Like not even close.

Not really, we say no because we aren't trading Nylander, Gardiner, or Sosh/Brown.

Don't like virtanen at all. Seen enough of him to know the IQ issues won't correct itself. You can't teach IQ and Virtanen doesn't have that.

 

[Cupless44]

I never saw any Leaf fans calling Nylander a superstar already. I only saw 1 person calling Virtanen elite...
What if Nylander reaches his potential? Are elite #1c's easy to find?

Also, Nylander was 190 at the beginning of last season. That's a picture of him from like a weak ago.

Give it a rest already. Virtanen was drafted high because of the potential to be an elite power forward. If he becomes that, it is a valued commodity that is not easy to find. That is what I meant.

If you draft a power forward, you do so with the understanding that patience is usually required. You do not give up or trade away that potential at 19 because some fans did not like his performance at the WJC. After he returned to Vancouver, he played pretty well for the most part. Played well defensively and led all Canuck forwards in possession numbers, scored a few nice goals that flashed his speed and skill, laid some people out as he hits like a truck. In fairness to Virtanen, he was rushed to the NHL and should have played in junior last year.


I think 1C belongs to someone else in Toronto for the foreseeable future. And no a player like Nylander does not grow on trees. He is an excellent prospect. But if Viirtanen reaches his potential as one of the fastest, hardest hitting players in the NHL who hits 30 goals that is actually a rarer player and harder to find.

 

[canwincup]

Gardiner is a #4/5 dman?

That sucks for the Leafs if true.

Also isn't Nylander by far the best player in this deal?

AHAHAHAHAAH wow...........Nylander is already better than Tanev ? Nylander isn't even better than Gardiner right now.

 

[The Thin White Duke]

You must not watch Tanev play.

Tanev and Reply are both 2D right now with Reilly still having the potential to become a mid-range #1. After that we are left with Hutton-Zaitsev and Marincin-Polak. That is a very average defensive group. Tanev doesn't make your defense go from average to good on his own.

 

[BoHorvat 53]

Not touching this at all as a Canucks fan. If any team says no, it's the Canucks. Maybe due to time zone constrictions, fans out in the east can't watch the Canucks play, but if y'all did, there's no way you guys would be underrating Hutton as much as I've seen in this thread. Tanev is getting the respect he commands, but Hutton isn't. Kid was playing for stretches in our top-4 and he didn't look out of place/miss a beat. In his rookie year in the league.

Edit: Also the Virtanen down play. He didn't have a good showing at the WJCs, yes, but if that's all your basing your opinion on, then maybe once again you should try to catch a couple of Canucks games. His underlying stats show a lot of what we saw after the WJCs - good possession, just no production (yet). Hero chart supports this claim (I know, they're not all that useful - but in this case I'd argue they are)

 

[Gavy]

Give it a rest already. Virtanen was drafted high because of the potential to be an elite power forward. If he becomes that, it is a valued commodity that is not easy to find. That is what I meant.

If you draft a power forward, you do so with the understanding that patience is usually required. You do not give up or trade away that potential at 19 because some fans did not like his performance at the WJC. After he returned to Vancouver, he played pretty well for the most part. Played well defensively and led all Canuck forwards in possession numbers, scored a few nice goals that flashed his speed and skill, laid some people out as he hits like a truck. In fairness to Virtanen, he was rushed to the NHL and should have played in junior last year.


I think 1C belongs to someone else in Toronto for the foreseeable future. And no a player like Nylander does not grow on trees. He is an excellent prospect. But if Viirtanen reaches his potential as one of the fastest, hardest hitting players in the NHL who hits 30 goals that is actually a rarer player and harder to find.

Sorry. I doubt an elite 1c is easier to find than a power forward who can score 30. Give it a rest

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

What has Hutton done to prove he has a higher stock than Connor Brown? He is a 5/6 D. Just because you are a 5/6D in the NHL doesn't mean you are better than someone in the AHL.

According to all stats and even advanced stats + the eye test... Gardiner is better than Tanev.

Nucks fans are just salty they didn't get Nylander instead Virtanen.
They even think that Tanev> Morgan Reilly which tells you how biased they are.

Right now Tanev >> Rielly as a player. I honestly think that morgan rielly is overvalued by maple leafs fans. He will be a good number 2 in his prime imo. Hutton played top 4 nhl minutes last year with good awful partners for most of the year and excelled obviously you have never watched him. If you ever watched Tanev or heard players talk about him you would now he is a far better player than Gardiner.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Not really, we say no because we aren't trading Nylander, Gardiner, or Sosh/Brown.

Don't like virtanen at all. Seen enough of him to know the IQ issues won't correct itself. You can't teach IQ and Virtanen doesn't have that.

Oh I bet you have seen so much of him.....

 

[MissionCanucksFan]

Some were also worried that they'd come up and play well and cost us some needed losses.

Which they showed they were capable of when they were brought up after the deadline.

The canucks were trying to win games and still are.

Well there you have it folks....

Some teams and fan bases prefer to tank harder than others.

"Ya, don't call this player up, he is on a hot streak and might win us a game.....we can't have that."

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

I never saw any Leaf fans calling Nylander a superstar already. I only saw 1 person calling Virtanen elite...
What if Nylander reaches his potential? Are elite #1c's easy to find?

Also, Nylander was 190 at the beginning of last season. That's a picture of him from like a weak ago.

Dude one of your fellow fans on in this thread, talked about how Nylander is better than Tanev. He has been anointed as a stud #1 C already by many of your fellow fans, he is absolutely the most over rated player on this board, by a country mile.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Leafs laugh
Virtanen is awful

great contribution Seems like you totally know what your talking about.....

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

Where in my post did I state the Canucks should have taken Nylander over Virtanen? You are getting your panties all twisted up over something I never even said. Virtanen is over rated. He was a 6th overall pick, and is a player who will not live up to his expectations. He got called out by the Sedin's this year due to his lack of effort, he struggled with consistency all year, and need I mention the World Juniors? He was a returning guy who was supposed to lead the team. But he makes bone headed plays. Takes dumb penalties. Low hockey IQ. The list goes on.

Forget that I'm a Leafs fan. Forget You are a Canucks fan. Virtanen could be on any other team and I still wouldn't want him. As for Nylander, I actually see him getting traded a few years down the road. I have never and never will expect him to get 120 pts a season. If he gets 40+ points I'll be happy. If he gets 50+, I'll p**s my pants with excitement. As for Hutton, I'm not ripping the guy. I said he's an average NHL D man. Just because the Canucks blue line is so thin and he may have played in the top 4, doesn't make him a top 4 NHL defender. SO what if he threw up a few points last year? Let's see what he can do in his second and third season before we start saying how great he is. I mean his -21 last year is pretty ugly, just sayin....but what does a 'homer' like me know...

Yah Morgan Rielly is -47 in the last 3 years. With his plus minus getting worse each year. So that means that morgan is below average nhl and will probably continue to be, using you logic.

 

[RandV]

From a fantasy perspective it's pretty fair. Basically Tanev for Nylander, then Hutton+Virtanen for Gardiner+Brown/Soshnikov.

Far too disruptive a trade to happen in reality though... teams generally don't make these sorts of deals. Well maybe not for Jim Benning but Toronto's management is sane.

 

[BrockBoeser6]

Oh I bet you have seen so much of him.....

What... you mean the world juniors isn't enough?

 

[Atomos2]

We aren't trading an unprotected 1st.

I'd be willing to discuss it if it gets VanCity's attention. But if it doesn't then you won't have to worry.

 

[Cupless44]

Sorry. I doubt an elite 1c is easier to find than a power forward who can score 30. Give it a rest

I don't know about that. If you look at the top 50 in goal scoring last year (that goes down to 25 goals) there are only 4 players I would call power forwards. Pacioretty, Simmonds, Doan, Neal. You could make it 6 if you add Benn and Ovechkin but they are unique super star players and not classic tough power forwards. Of this group only Simmonds brings the physicality and edge that Virtanen does if he can join this group in in future.

If you look at the top 50 in scoring including assists which has to be included to be fair to Nylander, there are 22 centres. Finding good offensive centres is not as difficult as finding top level power forwards.

It also depends on what you consider elite...Tavares, Crosby, Seguin, Kopitar, Bergeron are what I would call elite centres that are harder to find than a top power forward. As for Nylander he will likely be playing his career as a scoring winger anyways unless the Leafs move Matthews or Kadri and Nylander gets better defensively and on face offs.

No guarantee Virtanen can join the top group of power forwards but that is what he was drafted to be and it is too early to write him off, he is a very toolsy player. We will stick with our local BC boy and see what develops. The league is full of soft players who can score and play in space.

You can fairly say the criticism is fair, though way too early on both players, that Virtanen needs to improve his game in some areas but for me I think Nylander has to prove he is not a perimeter player.

 

[Gavy]

I don't know about that. If you look at the top 50 in goal scoring last year (that goes down to 25 goals) there are only 4 players I would call power forwards. Pacioretty, Simmonds, Doan, Neal. You could make it 6 if you add Benn and Ovechkin but they are unique super star players and not classic tough power forwards. Of this group only Simmonds brings the physicality and edge that Virtanen does if he can join this group in in future.

If you look at the top 50 in scoring including assists which has to be included to be fair to Nylander, there are 22 centres. Finding good offensive centres is not as difficult as finding top level power forwards.

It also depends on what you consider elite...Tavares, Crosby, Seguin, Kopitar, Bergeron are what I would call elite centres that are harder to find than a top power forward. As for Nylander he will likely be playing his career as a scoring winger anyways unless the Leafs move Matthews or Kadri and Nylander gets better defensively and on face offs.

No guarantee Virtanen can join the top group of power forwards but that is what he was drafted to be and it is too early to write him off, he is a very toolsy player. We will stick with our local BC boy and see what develops. The league is full of soft players who can score and play in space.

You can fairly say the criticism is fair, though way too early on both players, that Virtanen needs to improve his game in some areas but for me I think Nylander has to prove he is not a perimeter player.

I'll be honest, I wanted and want Virtanen. He's my favourite type of player and I absolutely hope he becomes a 30 goals scorer who runs through guys to do it.

I'm not in the majority of non Vancouver fans who think he is a bust. I have confidence that he has all the tools to be the guy he was drafted to be.
I also think Tanev is better than Gardiner but not by much. Gardiner is getting underrated big time.

 

[Szechwan]

Time to close this thread, good Lord.