Proposal: Leafs - Canucks 3 for 3 block buster

[onlygotmygrade10]

'Blockbuster' is usually code for a hilarious and/or terrible trade.

This one not so much, I'm confused. When the OP has fans from both teams disagreeing like this, you may be onto something.

 

[PredsForPresidents]

All these people comparing Nylander and Virtanen, FOR CHRIST SAKE THEY'RE BARELY EVEN 20.

Nylander has played all of what? 22 games? Sure he's looked good in them but that may have been a fluke. May not have been.

We Canucks fans know we took the "wrong" guy at #6, but hell, they're young. He might turn into Ovi 2.0. Not likely... but a fan can hope.

Nobody knows with young players/prospects.

Can we just get a lock on here already?

 

[Atomos2]

I don't doubt him at all, he is a very good prospect, he isn't a proven commodity yet in the NHL though, is that up for debate? Or has what he has done in the SEL and AHL already made him a stud in the NHL? Your fellow fans seem to think so, so yah that means over rated. He is not better than Tanev, on of your fellow fans said that, so yah that indicated over rating.

Nobody doubts him, has anybody said that? Is it not possible to overrate a player who is already a very good prospect?

He's not better than Tanev yet, but his value especially to a rebuilding team like the Leafs rivals Tanev to a team like the Canucks, that's not overrating.

If you want to know a prime example of overrating, go to the polls thread and see how certain posters believe a kid who has played only half a season in the NHL is better than the reigning hart trophy winner. That is overrating.

Tanev has good value, enough that I would consider an unprotected first for him, but I certainly value Nylander more.

 

[The Thin White Duke]

All these people comparing Nylander and Virtanen, FOR CHRIST SAKE THEY'RE BARELY EVEN 20.

Nylander has played all of what? 22 games? Sure he's looked good in them but that may have been a fluke. May not have been.

We Canucks fans know we took the "wrong" guy at #6, but hell, they're young. He might turn into Ovi 2.0. Not likely... but a fan can hope.

Nobody knows with young players/prospects.

Can we just get a lock on here already?

When one of them exceeds expectations in every league he plays in for 2 years straight, is it reasonable to assume he's going to suddenly and inexplicably fall flat on his face?

When one of them at best barely meets expectations in the 2 years after his draft, is it reasonable to assume he's going to turn into Ovi 2.0?

"No one knows for sure" is just handwaving an argument you're going to lose away.

 

[Chrunchy91*]

Nylander is better than Virtanen (lets be honestt)

Tanev is a TOP 4 shutdovvn D (VVith little Offensive upside)
Gardiner is a TOP 4 offensive D (he may be a 2 vvay D, b/c his shot surpression #s are off the chart)

Connor brovvn and Hutton are both unproven.

From vvhat I knovv. Tanev vvont be a #1 D ever. LIsEN TO ME since vvhen have you seen a #1 D vvho is 1 dimensional (Tanev has little Offense).

Gardiner has very high Offensicve upside and he has amazing shot surpression #s Gardiner is a 2 VVay D

Name a list of #1 Ds. None of them are 1 Dimension Defensive D-man
Tanev can be a good #2/3D but Gardiner has #1D potential.

 

[Canada4Gold]

^Is your w key broken?

 

[PredsForPresidents]

^Is your w key broken?

VVas about to ask that myself

 

[Chrunchy91*]

yes.

 

[Cogburn]

Nylander is better than Virtanen (lets be honestt)

Tanev is a TOP 4 shutdovvn D (VVith little Offensive upside)
Gardiner is a TOP 4 offensive D (he may be a 2 vvay D, b/c his shot surpression #s are off the chart)

Connor brovvn and Hutton are both unproven.

From vvhat I knovv. Tanev vvont be a #1 D ever. LIsEN TO ME since vvhen have you seen a #1 D vvho is 1 dimensional (Tanev has little Offense).

Gardiner has very high Offensicve upside and he has amazing shot surpression #s Gardiner is a 2 VVay D

Name a list of #1 Ds. None of them are 1 Dimension Defensive D-man
Tanev can be a good #2/3D but Gardiner has #1D potential.

Crosby is a fine top 9 center too. You're technically correct in saying Tanev is top four, but putting it that way is just trying to troll. He's top pairing here, and something tells me he'll be playing, and contributing with, Rielly.

Defensively, anything Gardiner can do, Tanev does it better. He hasn't got the high end IQ or skill on the offensive side of the ice to be a true number one, but saying he's "top four" is just trying to stir up Canucks fans.

 

[MuchoMacho]

All these people comparing Nylander and Virtanen, FOR CHRIST SAKE THEY'RE BARELY EVEN 20.

Nylander has played all of what? 22 games? Sure he's looked good in them but that may have been a fluke. May not have been.

We Canucks fans know we took the "wrong" guy at #6, but hell, they're young. He might turn into Ovi 2.0. Not likely... but a fan can hope.

Nobody knows with young players/prospects.

Can we just get a lock on here already?

The hype for Nylander is based on:

- His numbers in the SHL as an 18 year old were better than Naslund, Sedins, Sundin, Forsberg, Kopitar, Steens, etc.

- When he went to the AHL he he had a slow start but ended up going over a PPG to finish his season ending with 32 points in 37 games as an 18 year old.

- As a 19 year old he put up 45 points in 38 games in the AHL.

- In his 22 games in the NHL, his first 10 games or so he only got 2 points but then all of the sudden he figured it out and put up somewhere around 11 points in 13 games to finish the season while playing center as a 19 year old. Granted with sheltered minutes, but still.

- The big knock on him was that he weighed about 170 lbs when he was drafted. This is his progression since being drafted. He's turned into a gym rat and has put on 20, if not, 25 pounds since being drafted.

There are some knocks on him, for example he was a bit pedestrian during the Marlies' playoff run but there was also reports that he had mono. All that to say I agree that it's just hype and until he puts it together full time at the NHL he's still just a prospect, but his trajectory is impressive. I think it's pretty easy to understand why many Leafs fans have no interest in trading him.

 

[cookie]

Wouldn't the Leafs rather keep Nylander on the team and establish their own identity, one of a three-headed monster? Or, in keeping in line with their coach's credo, skilled duo's complimented by lunch pail type of guys?

Tanev's a good player, but the Canucks need him. He's their best defenseman on an amazing contract and not to mention that there's little coming up in the pipeline with regards to defensemen. He'd be good on the Leafs, however he's perfect for the Canucks.

 

[embracedbias]

18 year old AHL seasons, > 20 GP
Dome: 36 GP, 46 pts, 1.278 PPG
Pastrnak: 25 GP, 28 pts, 1.12 PPG
Nylander: 37 GP, 32 pts, .865 PPG
Filatov: 39 GP, 32 pts, .821 PPG
Prospal: 55 GP, 35 pts, .636 PPG
Bergfors: 65 GP, 40 pts, .615 PPG
Fiala: 33 GP, 20 pts, .606 PPG

19 year old AHL seasons
Spezza: 43 GP, 54 pts, 1.256 PPG
Nylander: 38 GP, 45 pts, 1.184 PPG
Rantanen: 52 GP, 60 pts, 1.154 PPG
Demitra: 41 GP, 41 pts, 1 PPG
Vrana; 36 GP, 34 pts, .944 PPG
Bergeron: 68 GP, 61 pts, .897 PPG
Voloshenko: 69 GP, 60 pts, .870 PPG
Hudler: 57 GP, 49 pts, .860 PPG
Elias: 74 GP, 63 pts, .851 PPG

 

[BrockBoeser6]

18 year old AHL seasons, > 20 GP
Dome: 36 GP, 46 pts, 1.278 PPG
Pastrnak: 25 GP, 28 pts, 1.12 PPG
Nylander: 37 GP, 32 pts, .865 PPG
Filatov: 39 GP, 32 pts, .821 PPG
Prospal: 55 GP, 35 pts, .636 PPG
Bergfors: 65 GP, 40 pts, .615 PPG
Fiala: 33 GP, 20 pts, .606 PPG

19 year old AHL seasons
Spezza: 43 GP, 54 pts, 1.256 PPG
Nylander: 38 GP, 45 pts, 1.184 PPG
Rantanen: 52 GP, 60 pts, 1.154 PPG
Demitra: 41 GP, 41 pts, 1 PPG
Vrana; 36 GP, 34 pts, .944 PPG
Bergeron: 68 GP, 61 pts, .897 PPG
Voloshenko: 69 GP, 60 pts, .870 PPG
Hudler: 57 GP, 49 pts, .860 PPG
Elias: 74 GP, 63 pts, .851 PPG

I must say, that's quite the elite group of players Nylanders numbers are amongst. Especially at that age in the AHL!

 

[Halla]

I must say, that's quite the elite group of players Nylanders numbers are amongst. Especially at that age in the AHL!

2nd best ever as a 19 year old. only behind spezza.
virtanen by the way has a 0.10 ppg

 

[WestleySnipez]

Nylander is better than Virtanen (lets be honest)

Absolutely, I doubt anyone would disagree.

Tanev is a TOP 4 shutdovvn D (VVith little Offensive upside)
Gardiner is a TOP 4 offensive D (he may be a 2 vvay D, b/c his shot surpression #s are off the chart)

This is where I disagree, Tanev is a #2 Defenseman for sure. He's an excellent shut down defender and the best I've seen in a Canucks uniform since 2010 Hamhuis or 2002 Jovanoski.

Gardiner is definitely a Top 4 defenseman with a good offensive upside, but on a Canucks team in its current state, he'd be eaten alive defensively.

Connor brovvn and Hutton are both unproven.

I suppose Connor Brown might be, but I haven't seen his play, so I can't agree or disagree.

But I will disagree that Hutton is unproven. He was a bright spot in a dark season for the Canucks; he proved himself to be a very solid Top 6 at the start of the season, and by Game 82 he was a definite Top 4 for us. Come next season, he'll be in the Top 4 again unless he has a massive relapse.

From vvhat I knovv. Tanev vvont be a #1 D ever. LIsEN TO ME since vvhen have you seen a #1 D vvho is 1 dimensional (Tanev has little Offense).

You're right, he has very little offensive upside, but he is one of the best shut down D in the league, making him a fantastic #2 Defenseman.

Gardiner has very high Offensicve upside and he has amazing shot surpression #s Gardiner is a 2 VVay D

Name a list of #1 Ds. None of them are 1 Dimension Defensive D-man
Tanev can be a good #2/3D but Gardiner has #1D potential.

I haven't seen any one say Gardiner has #1D potential, and at this point, I'd say he could peak as a #2, which is where Tanev is now.

The hype for Nylander is based on:

- His numbers in the SHL as an 18 year old were better than Naslund, Sedins, Sundin, Forsberg, Kopitar, Steens, etc.

That also shows Magnus Paajarvi as having better points than half those you listed too, and he's pretty much a 3rd/4th liner. it doesn't always equate to better performance in the NHL. Yes, your other points about Nylander are valid and he is better offensively than Virtanen, but don't take everything at face value.

 

[The Legend]

AHAHAHAHAAH wow...........Nylander is already better than Tanev ? Nylander isn't even better than Gardiner right now.

When did I say Nylander is better than Tanev or Gardiner right now? Crazy concept - teams care about the potential of players. And I would rather have Nylander than Gardiner or Tanev. As would most people I'm sure. Maybe not Jim Benning.

 

[TeamBester]

Yes exactly. I can't tell whether your response was sarcastic or not?

By that logic any Leaf prospect that is hyped up will always be the most over rated by a country mile because well they are Leafs prospects. You sure that's how it works? I figured it was true potential/what he is vs what people think he is or saying he will be.

A good example would be

B Schenn, #1 prospect not in the NHL, sure fire superstar. That was over rated.

 

[Pyrophorus]

I view it as Hutton= Gardiner in value. Might even lean towards preferring Hutton.

Nylander would be a fair return for Tanev.

Virtanen> the other stuff.

Easy win for Toronto.

Out pointed Jake by 4 points, in many less games.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Wouldn't the Leafs rather keep Nylander on the team and establish their own identity, one of a three-headed monster? Or, in keeping in line with their coach's credo, skilled duo's complimented by lunch pail type of guys?

I agree. I think we should stick with this plan and see what Lou can do.

 

[TOGuy14]

Honest Question: How can he be a 1C when he is never going to get the opportunity??

Did Malkin ever become a #1C without the "opportunity"?

Not saying Nylander is Malkin levels, just questioning the logic of him not being #1C worthy because we may have another #1C ahead of him in Matthews

 

[GoHardtotheGoal]

Ben Hutton

Chris Tanev

Jake Virtanen



Jake Gardiner

William Nylander

Nikita Soshnikov or Connor Brown or Leafs 2017 2nd


Thoughts? Too big of a swap? If so how could it be simplified?

Blockbuster?? That's hysterical.

 

[Ciao]

Too much risk for both sides. They would both need to have a better handle on what kind of assets they're dealing with in respect of the kids. It's much too soon to deal them.

 

[Chrunchy91*]

Id love to have Tanev-Reilly pairing but not at the price of Nylander-Gardiner-C.Brovvn.

Hutton is an unproven 5D. Virtanen is equivalent to a 2nd rd. pick.

Maybe JvR, Top 6 protected 2017 1st for Tanev

 

[BlueBaron]

Id love to have Tanev-Reilly pairing but not at the price of Nylander-Gardiner-C.Brovvn.

Hutton is an unproven 5D. Virtanen is equivalent to a 2nd rd. pick.

Maybe JvR, Top 6 protected 2017 1st for Tanev

Trading in circles move which removes the only real top line forward with size on our team. Also an important player to shelter Marner, Nylander and Matthews.

I would love Tanev and if I were trying to move for him I could see paying a 1rst and a bunch of prospects (mostly wingers and none of our big 3) .

Something tells me Vancouver fans would not do it for

1rst , Connor Brown, and Kapanen and any D But Gardiner, Rielly and Ziatsev.

I am not sure we are the best trading partners. I think I would stick with the plan and build through the draft and wait for an opportunity to snag a better D when it comes rather than trading in circles and creating one hole to fill another.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

By that logic any Leaf prospect that is hyped up will always be the most over rated by a country mile because well they are Leafs prospects. You sure that's how it works? I figured it was true potential/what he is vs what people think he is or saying he will be.

A good example would be

B Schenn, #1 prospect not in the NHL, sure fire superstar. That was over rated.

There have been plenty of leafs prospects that have been overrated sure and yes it can be said that was because of the sheer amount of leafs fans, absolutely.

None have been as overhyped as Nylander, even right after he was drafted your fellow fans said he would be an absolute superstar, I have even heard people say that he will be the best player from that draft. People in this thread saying he is better than Tanev now. These are things that classify as overrated, not just the sheer amount it's the rhetoric that comes along with it.

I'm not the only one who thinks this there are plenty of us, sorry this reality seems to bug you so much. If this wasn't true then why do so many leafs fans avoid this board like the plague because of the bad rep leafs fans have on here (I know they are not all bad either) can you explain that?