Proposal: Leafs - Canucks 3 for 3 block buster

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Hey thanks. Right back at you.
We can't have another year of zero Canadian teams in the playoffs. That's just wrong on so many levels.

Absolutely, I may hate certain rival teams but I think its way better when every team makes it in, plus it pisses off Bettman, and that's something we can all get behind!

 

[TeamBester]

Way to go you named two players and yes my fanbase is fairly bad, I'll admit that, can you? All I have seen is deflection after deflection from you bud.

I don't think anybody would disagree, that no teams fans over rate their players like leafs fans do that was my only point. It's funny how the only people raising an issue about that are leafs fans hmmmmm. I understand that most of you are rationale loyal hockey fans, I would never deny that.

You missed my whole point, I'm not deflecting. Answer this, which one is more over rated,

Oiler fan, Yakapov is going to be an elite winger.

Ten Leafs fans, Willy is going to be an elite winger

?

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

You missed my whole point, I'm not deflecting. Answer this, which one is more over rated,

Oiler fan, Yakapov is going to be an elite winger.

Ten Leafs fans, Willy is going to be an elite winger

?

By volume leafs fans, by degree they are the same, I see what you mean. Good point.

 

[Atomos2]

He played 22 games no? How does that equate to his floor will be this? When he does it over an extended period of time, sure. He is still a prospect no?

At this point the doubting is more unrealistic than the proclamations. At least with the proclamations, there is overwhelming evidence showing Nylander could be an effective top line centre. With the doubting, you're going against everything he has done for the past few years and making a shot in the dark assumption that he'll fail based on people, who are not him, failing in previous years.

You think the proclamations of success are absurd but whats really absurd is the belief that for some inexplicable reason, Nylander will bust just because. And you think Leaf fans are making the ridiculous assumptions?

 

[Canuck Luck]

Well, I'm sure you knew weare rebuilding.
Half those players were acquired in a trade half way through the season and the other half was being given opportunity to raise their trade deadline stock. Rebuilding teams try to acquire picks by signing guys to one year deals then trying to flip them for assets.
Can't do that if we have our young guys up and the other guys you mentioned down on the Marlies.

Last year was arguably year 1 of the rebuild.
We had the Marlies who were winning like crazy and kept Nylander, Kapanen, Soshnikov, Brown and all those guys down there in a winning environment rather than bring them up and have them in a losing environment.

Some were also worried that they'd come up and play well and cost us some needed losses.

Which they showed they were capable of when they were brought up after the deadline.

The canucks were trying to win games and still are.

Yea teams bring in players who once were valuable assets in hopes to build them back up and sell them at the deadline, but the rest of your post is a crock of ****.

Why play the incoming cap dumps over Brown if he deserves to be there? Yea I get the winning culture vs losing culture but if he truly deserves to be there and you say as such, isnt that bad for the player-team relationship? The team acknowledges he should be in the show making a NHL salary, but instead he's forced to ride the pine in the AHL making significantly less. All because they don't want to expose him to losing? Why is Morgan Rielly in the lineup then? Why expose him to losing over winning? He's the same age as Brown.

Doesn't Rielly cost your team wins? there goes that argument too. But even if those guys came up and helped your team win more, doesn't that go against the whole losing enviornment argument, since ya know, the team is winning more games now?

 

[4uston M4tthews]

Do the Nucks entertain JVR [and maybe a 2nd] for Tanev?

 

[Chrunchy91*]

here's a w

scroll over it, and copy it. Every time you want to type w just "crtl + v"

You look kind of ridiculous typing 2 v's for every w, it's hard to take you seriously.

My s key doesnt vvork also.

so Its either my s key or VV key. I copied s key

 

[Seatoo]

Do the Nucks entertain JVR [and maybe a 2nd] for Tanev?

Only in NHL 16

 

[Luck 6]

It's funny how Toronto fans are thinking about this as if it isn't entirely in their favour heh.

Nylander is great, Gardiner is okay, and a 2nd is always nice. But, Tanev is a legit right handed top pairing defenseman in his mid twenties on a great contract, that simply tips the value too far in the other direction. Hutton scored 29 points as a rookie playing above average defensive hockey, we have him pencilled into the top 4 this season as well. And say what you want about Virtanen, he was a 6 overall pick who should have been in the 10 range. He's a solid NHL player who will likely be a good 2nd liner in a few years, and at worst will be a good 3rd liner.

 

[Halla]

It's funny how Toronto fans are thinking about this as if it isn't entirely in their favour heh.

Nylander is great, Gardiner is okay, and a 2nd is always nice. But, Tanev is a legit right handed top pairing defenseman in his mid twenties on a great contract, that simply tips the value too far in the other direction. Hutton scored 29 points as a rookie playing above average defensive hockey, we have him pencilled into the top 4 this season as well. And say what you want about Virtanen, he was a 6 overall pick who should have been in the 10 range. He's a solid NHL player who will likely be a good 2nd liner in a few years, and at worst will be a good 3rd liner.

nope. the deal is terrible. Gardiner has el;ite level advanced stats that show him as a top pairing dman. more offense and better shot supression than tanev. don't believe me? look it up. Nylander is in a different league than Virtanen (thus far). that part of the deal wouldnt interest the leafs at all. leafs probably dont even move their 2nd (31-35) for hutton straight up, so there is also that.

I find it funny to see guys that can't comprehend the other teams fan base not liking a deal. I'll concede that tanev is an upgrade over gardiner because he is more reliable, but the virtanen for nylander aspect is hot garbage. Virtanen has gotten outplayed by pretty much every high pick in his draft class, whereas Nylander has been one of the best. move along

 

[Halla]

Do the Nucks entertain JVR [and maybe a 2nd] for Tanev?

I doubt the leafs entertain that. We need some wingers with experience, and Tanev doesnt put up enough offense to ever be a true top pairing guy.

 

[member 202355]

I doubt the leafs entertain that. We need some wingers with experience, and Tanev doesnt put up enough offense to ever be a true top pairing guy.

How many top-pairing defensemen do you think there are? By the traditional definition of a top-pairing defenseman, which is a top 60 defender league-wide, Tanev is already there. If you mean #1, then you may very well be right.

 

[goblix]

nope. the deal is terrible. Gardiner has el;ite level advanced stats that show him as a top pairing dman. more offense and better shot supression than tanev. don't believe me? look it up. Nylander is in a different league than Virtanen (thus far). that part of the deal wouldnt interest the leafs at all. leafs probably dont even move their 2nd (31-35) for hutton straight up, so there is also that.

I find it funny to see guys that can't comprehend the other teams fan base not liking a deal. I'll concede that tanev is an upgrade over gardiner because he is more reliable, but the virtanen for nylander aspect is hot garbage. Virtanen has gotten outplayed by pretty much every high pick in his draft class, whereas Nylander has been one of the best. move along

Honestly the joke here is that anyone can determine value on a 19/20 year old players based on one partial year in the NHL.

Seriously who cares about the value or the progression, my bet is that they will both be good players and good in their own ways. Virtanen speed and physicality, Nylander with his offensive capabilities.

Other than that Hutton is a no go on the trade front... It'd be like trading a lesser version of trading Reilly away...

Tanev and Gardiner is interesting mainly because the Canucks would need more of a puck mover and Leafs would need more of a stabilizing presence in their defence. I also don't really take too much stock into advanced stats.
Yet the Canucks likely still say no because:
1) Tanev is RHD
2) Drafted Juolevi LHD puck mover
3) Tanev's contract is suited nicely in the cap era


Summary: Trading Nylander // Virtanen is garbage talk.. It's too early. Tanev has too many positives to trade for a LHD in Gardiner regardless of advanced stats. Hutton has potential and as another poster has said already played top 4 minutes and performed reasonably for first time pro, he is nearly untouchable.

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

nope. the deal is terrible. Gardiner has el;ite level advanced stats that show him as a top pairing dman. more offense and better shot supression than tanev. don't believe me? look it up. Nylander is in a different league than Virtanen (thus far). that part of the deal wouldnt interest the leafs at all. leafs probably dont even move their 2nd (31-35) for hutton straight up, so there is also that.

I find it funny to see guys that can't comprehend the other teams fan base not liking a deal. I'll concede that tanev is an upgrade over gardiner because he is more reliable, but the virtanen for nylander aspect is hot garbage. Virtanen has gotten outplayed by pretty much every high pick in his draft class, whereas Nylander has been one of the best. move along

After 25 games Sven baertschi had13 points, nylander will probably have a similar career. Am I doing the projection after 20ish games right?

 

[Marlander93]

What a garbage proposal. Thank God this isn't real.

 

[34]

NO from Toronto.

Nylander is by far the best player in this AINEC.

 

[Semantics]

Nylander is great, Gardiner is okay, and a 2nd is always nice. But, Tanev is a legit right handed top pairing defenseman in his mid twenties on a great contract, that simply tips the value too far in the other direction.

By the time the season starts Tanev will be in his late 20s. Also, he's not really much of an upgrade on Gardiner, who is almost as good defensively but has way better shot generation.

Nylander is likely to be the best player in this trade by a significant margin, so I don't think it makes sense for the Leafs even if the value is equal. You never trade quality for quantity.

 

[Cogburn]

By the time the season starts Tanev will be in his late 20s. Also, he's not really much of an upgrade on Gardiner, who is almost as good defensively but has way better shot generation.

Nylander is likely to be the best player in this trade by a significant margin, so I don't think it makes sense for the Leafs even if the value is equal. You never trade quality for quantity.

Gardiner isn't in the same sphere as Tanev defensively. Full stop. If you disagree, I invite you, in the spirit of discussion and friendship, to watch a few more games of the Canucks next season. There is a reason we hype him up over more exciting players like Edler.

As for Nylander, his potential is huge, but it's still that, potential. We have guys with potential, we've traded guys with potential, we've had guys utterly bust, that isn't the same as accomplishing the milestones.

As for quality, I feel we are far and away surrendering the best piece. Outside of Nylander/Tanev component, which is what we're arguing about, the whole trade is wholly uneven and unneeded. Virtanen and Hutton for Gardiner and a second is a trade Vancouver turns down every single time.

It's probably best each team takes their toys, and goes home.

 

[Smeagoal]

NO from Toronto.

Nylander is by far the best player in this AINEC.

We're not worthy of his gloriousness

 

[eviohh26*]

Gotta love Leaf fans trying to say Gardiner is on Tanevs level. What a complete bias joke. Leafs gonna Leaf it up though.

 

[Boondock]

Funny thing about being overrated is you do not know if it is the case or not until the player reaches their prime. I am not sure what your definition of overrated is but most would say Nylander looks like a top 6 forward, perhaps a number 2 C . So the odd Leaf fan thinks he is the next great superstar , who cares?

I find it humorous how outraged people get by our most immature fans and paint us all with the same brush. The reasons many of us avoid the trade boards are as follows:

1. Imaginary trades are pointless.

2. The Leafs really have no trade bait left except Bozak

3. Western Canadian fans are often irrationally hostile making discussions with them tiresome. (You would think it would be Ottawa or Habs fans but it seems to be western based)

Your 3rd point is slightly hypocritical seeing as how you stated
"and paint us all with the same brush"

I agree Vancouver has a lot of Canucks fans - not overall hockey fans. This can lead to some "interesting" points of view.
I also think some frustration is based on the fact that a lot of Eastern based fans make comments about the Canucks and realistically have probably seen 2 Canuck games and the TSN highlight package. We all get caught state watching and regurgitating other HF posters opinions, but there is a lot of inaccurate statements regarding western teams and their players by people who don't stay up till 1:00 am to watch a team they obviously don't like.

 

[The Thin White Duke]

Gotta love Leaf fans trying to say Gardiner is on Tanevs level. What a complete bias joke. Leafs gonna Leaf it up though.

Why is it that Tanev allows only very slightly less goals against per 60 minutes than Gardiner despite being on the better team and having a significantly better partner? Is Miller/Markstrom significantly worse than Bernier/Reimer? Are the Sedins worse possession forwards than Kadri-Komarov?

Ignoring the fact that when Gardiner is on the ice, his team outshoots Tanev's by a significant amount, why do similar amounts of goals and shots against happen for both if Gardiner isn't even on Tanev's level? Surely there must be some explanation.

 

[eviohh26*]

Why is it that Tanev allows only very slightly less goals against per 60 minutes than Gardiner despite being on the better team and having a significantly better partner? Is Miller/Markstrom significantly worse than Bernier/Reimer? Are the Sedins worse possession forwards than Kadri-Komarov?

Ignoring the fact that when Gardiner is on the ice, his team outshoots Tanev's by a significant amount, why do similar amounts of goals and shots against happen for both if Gardiner isn't even on Tanev's level? Surely there must be some explanation.

I watch hockey. I dont just look at stats. Tanev is better than Gardiner.

 

[The Thin White Duke]

I watch hockey. I dont just look at stats. Tanev is better than Gardiner.

Cool but why is he getting similar results if he's better? Something doesn't add up right? Especially when you consider that Tanev plays in front of a better goalie, with a better partner, and on a team with better possession forwards. Maybe teams are just taking it easy on the Leafs when Gardiner's on the ice? Maybe Polak > Edler?

 

[aufheben]

Cool but why is he getting similar results if he's better? Something doesn't add up right? Especially when you consider that Tanev plays in front of a better goalie, with a better partner, and on a team with better possession forwards. Maybe teams are just taking it easy on the Leafs when Gardiner's on the ice? Maybe Polak > Edler?

That is not true.