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Confirmed with Link: Leafs acquire Dzingel, Lyubushkin from ARI for Ritchie, c.2nd... Dzingel on waivers &claimed

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ACC1224 said:
Are you referring to something specifically?
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Just a general observation of fans who either defend or deride players no matter how they play. Lack of objectivity IMO. Players like Marner and Nylander seem to be participating susceptible to this. Players can play poorly for a period of time and then play well at others but some fans will continue to defend them when playing poorly or deride them even though they’re playing well. I want all Leafs to play well at all times and will criticize them when they don’t play well and credit them when they do. It’s not personal for me. It’s just about team success.
 
zeke said:
Don't think you considered it. But you should.

But maybe you can come up with an answer as to why 4x as many Leafs get claimed on waivers than other teams....even though pretty much all of those guys end up back on waivers again promptly.
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Is that factual or a fan stat pulled out of your posterior?
 
Dekes For Days said:
And this team has shown an excellent ability to maneuver even the most difficult cap-related situations, with a good GM assisted by the person who literally wrote the salary cap.

And all four of them do provide significant value and impact to our team.

You're rarely going to get big surplus value out of high-end UFA signings, but you do get a relatively safe, consistent high value from that cap allocation for no expended assets. Our chances for playoff success are increased by having Tavares rather than not having Tavares.

Having to let go of good players is the result of poor cap management. Signing Tavares before signing Matthews and Marner hurt Dubas’ ability to keep their salary demands in line with outer teams star players.

He has not prevented us from having good defense, or goaltending, or forward depth, even despite a pretty much worse-case-scenario flat cap, and the chances of getting more value out of that 11m in UFA signings is not as likely as people seem to think. Tavares may not provide much surplus value relative to his cap hit, but mid-tier UFA players that we'd otherwise be spending that money on carry significantly more risk of bringing negative value relative to cap hit, and sometimes even negative value overall. That's what could really sink our chances at a cup - not paying an elite player big money.

Their lack of defensive depth showed up in the playoffs when injuries to Muzzin the previous two years contributed to the losing series they should have won.

All NHL players can skate. Skating worse than the best skaters in the world does not and never has prevented Tavares from being an effective elite player.

Being likely the slowest skater in the league is definitely a problem

It hasn't though. Tavares has nothing to do with the reasons we've lost.
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Every player has some responsibility when a team continually loses in the playoffs. Especially those that are the highest paid
 
I wonder, if Lyubushkin is solid for us, does that relegate Holl to 7D?

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Liljegren
Sandin - Lyubushkin
Holl

We'll see how he fits, but sounds like he's strong defensively and physical, but doesn't bring much offensively - could be a good fit beside Sandin. And personally I prefer Muzzin/Liljegren to Muzzin/Holl this year.

Regardless, good trade. Ritchie is a 13th/14th forward for us, ugly to have him eating up $2.5 mil cap space this year and especially next year. Dumping that contract is worth a 3rd in 2023 or 2nd in 2025, and we get a potentially useful D rental out of it too. Nice that the 2nd is well in the future, if the Yotes choose that route, as it will minimize any impact on the near future, which are crucial years for us. A 2nd in 2025 won't become a useful NHLer until 2028-2030, if ever.

Yeah, the Ritchie signing was quite a blunder, but at least Dubas fixed it pretty fast and relatively cheap.
 
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ponder said:
I wonder, if Lyubushkin is solid for us, does that relegate Holl to 7D?

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Liljegren
Sandin - Lyubushkin
Holl

We'll see how he fits, but sounds like he's strong defensively and physical, but doesn't bring much offensively - could be a good fit beside Sandin. And personally I prefer Muzzin/Liljegren to Muzzin/Holl this year.

Regardless, good trade. Ritchie is a 13th/14th forward for us, ugly to have him eating up $2.5 mil cap space this year and especially next year. Dumping that contract is worth a 3rd in 2023 or 2nd in 2025, and we get a potentially useful D rental out of it too. Nice that the 2nd is well in the future, if the Yotes chose that route, as it will minimize any impact on the near future, which are crucial years for us. A 2nd in 2025 won't become a useful NHLer until 2028-2030, if ever.
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I know people are high on Lilly, I would not be going into a playoff series with He and Sandin on the back six. Maybe one of them on the bottom with a veteran, but not both.

In fact, I would probably not even want either of them in this postseason if I had option, but, due to circumstances, Sandin on the third pairing might work if the top four are sound vets.
 
Leafsfan74 said:
I know people are high on Lilly, I would not be going into a playoff series with He and Sandin on the back six. Maybe one of them on the bottom with a veteran, but not both.

In fact, I would probably not even want either of them in this postseason if I had option, but, due to circumstances, Sandin on the third pairing might work if the top four are sound vets.
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Yet Cernak and Sergachev played roles in the TB's cup run.

You don't play worse players because they have experience.
 
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Leafsfan74 said:
I know people are high on Lilly, I would not be going into a playoff series with He and Sandin on the back six. Maybe one of them on the bottom with a veteran, but not both.

In fact, I would probably not even want either of them in this postseason if I had option, but, due to circumstances, Sandin on the third pairing might work if the top four are sound vets.
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I agree that 2 rookie dmen are a risk in our top 6 in the playoffs, but Holl has suuuuuuucked this year. Unless we deal for a legit, vet 2nd pairing dman, I'd rather have rookies out there than Holl.
 
Waiver breakdown, currently on active rosters within the 2021-22 season:

Montreal - Rem Pitlick (MIN), Kale Clague (LAK), Sam Montembault (FLA)
Vegas - Amadio (TOR)
Tampa - Gemel Smith (DET)
Winnipeg - Brooks (TOR)
Philly - Zack MacEwan (VAN), Kevin Connauton (FLA)
Colorado - Aube-Kubel (PHI)
San Jose - Dzingel (TOR)
Arizona - Nash (TBL), Wedgewood (NJ)
Seattle - Czarnik (NYI), Kuhlman (BOS)
NJ - Bastian (SEA), Mason Geertsen (NYR)
Ottawa - Gaudette (CHI)

Toronto has 3 players that they waived that are currently on active rosters. Brooks who is on his 4th team this season, Dzingel who was a cap move and Amadio who was a 4th liner. That's 17% of the current active waived roster players.
 
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Some of it has to do with the fact that these 11 waiver losses occurred when the Leafs were a .600 or so club - a better team. Weaker teams can improve picking up players on the fringes of good teams - particularly if it is the 22nd best player on the roster. That is a part of why waivers exist in the first place. - to give a player on the fringes of a good club a chance to play elsewhere in the league.

I do not buy that it is all about the rest of the league hates the Leafs and therefore, they'll grab all the players they waived.

Over that same time, the Leafs have waived these players without them being picked up :
Semyonov
Ritchie
Clifford
Hutchinson (more than once)
Petan (more than once I think)
Malgin
Marincin (more than once)
Gabriel
Biega
Seney
Mennel
Agostino
Anderson
Dahlstrom
Kivihalme
Spezza
Warsofsky
Kossila
Jordan Subban
LoVerde
Mueller
Jooris
Cracknell

Some of those guys haven't had a cup of coffee in the NHL.

But these guys:
Seney
Anderson
Clifford
Biega
Dahlstrom
are in the conversation about depth in the AHL this year - some specifically mentioned by Dubas during his PC on the Ritchie trade.

A good team waiving players will lose more players on waivers. They always have.

I
 
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ponder said:
I agree that 2 rookie dmen are a risk in our top 6 in the playoffs, but Holl has suuuuuuucked this year. Unless we deal for a legit, vet 2nd pairing dman, I'd rather have rookies out there than Holl.
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Well, Holl, like many, have been up and down this year. I can see him on the bottom pair, I'm just not sure how the pairings will shake up. This will probably be a process of meritocracy.

Perhaps Dubas goes big and finds a bonafide #4 and even finds a way to get a hard forechecking top six F.

Other teams are going to try and improve, hopefully Dubas can poach from teams. We have desired assets, a team doesn't build such a strong record without some talent. It's a matter of how this talent will play out in the playoffs.
 
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Lyubushkin/Polak, why is it always assumed that d-men that are physical but challenged when in possession of the puck are good defensively?

It's a myth, d-men need to be able to move the puck not just defend, d-men like Polak are the reason the puck lives forever in their own zone, overly physical d-men usually give up proper defensive posture for the hit.

Has TO traded for a new 8th d-man depth and Cap space, I hope so.
 
hobarth said:
Lyubushkin/Polak, why is it always assumed that d-men that are physical but challenged when in possession of the puck are good defensively?

It's a myth, d-men need to be able to move the puck not just defend, d-men like Polak are the reason the puck lives forever in their own zone, overly physical d-men usually give up proper defensive posture for the hit.

Has TO traded for a new 8th d-man depth and Cap space, I hope so.
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A heavy hitting defenseman has value in putting a hard stop to a down low cycle game, which allows for his defense partner or centerman to retrieve the loose puck and quickly distribute for the transition. We've seen many times before where a higher skilled defenseman without that big size and wingspan will also lose body positioning because they're simply muscled off or are leveraging their bodies to try and contain someone much bigger. That's also not ideal. In lieu of having 6x prime Chris Pronger's, you try to mix up the types out there and play a coherent, structured game plan.
 
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