Confirmed with Link: Leafs acquire Bernier for Frattin, Scrivens, 2nd in 14 or 15

[Duffman955]

There is no controversy when your goalies are both mid twenties and have never been cemented into a #1 role in the NHL. Best man wins. That's life in sports ...deal with it. Act like a professional and there will be no controversy.

They are both going to be cheap contracts for the next 2 years.

After that, we will have to make a decision on who to give the big contract to.

Even though I was confident in Reimer, now I am guaranteed that we will have excellent goaltending in the future.

 

[Kb21]

The 10+ round shootout says different. FYI every team gets 3 shooters, 2 are guaranteed, if they don't score then the loss isn't on the goalie especially when it's by 1 goal like pretty much all of our SO losses.

Why exactly does Bernier have "Way more potential"? because of where he was drafted? They're both the same age.

because of his skill set being more advanced. for all we know reimer may never develop a reliable glove hand and may just rely upon his positioning to help make most of his stops.


i like the trade, as much as i love frattin, getting a high potential G is much more important then having frattin. also a plus that the pick is next season or 2015.

 

[ULF_55]

There is no controversy when your goalies are both mid twenties and have never been cemented into a #1 role in the NHL. Best man wins. That's life in sports ...deal with it. Act like a professional and there will be no controversy.

Reimer turned 25 in March, Bernier turns 25 in August.

Both of them are very young goaltenders and both should improve with experience.

Reimer even seemed to overcome the pathetic and incompetent coaching he had last year before Burke fired the obsolete and disastrous coaching he had working with the goaltenders.

 

[Crispy Crust]

If reimer was the MVP how come he doesn't have a single vezina vote for this year? Certainly GM saw something wrong in him?

That's your rebuttal?

 

[PuckMagi]

maybe carlyle can make a deal with the goalies something along the lines of:

you start until you lose 2 games... then the other guy starts until he loses 2 games, etc. (with the exception of back-to-back games). if you lose a game, but then go on to win the next 4 in a row, your loss gets erased and you'll have to lose two more before the other guy gets his turn. games where you give up only 1 goal doesn't count as a loss even if the leafs lose. games where you give up 2 goals but make 40+ saves and the leafs still lose, doesn't count as a loss. giving up 4 or more goals in a game counts as a loss even if the leafs win. giving up 5 or more goals counts as two losses. etc.

this way, they both get to feel like #1 goalies. no one has to feel bad about getting replaced for the other guy since the rules were stated in advance. ultimately, the better goalie will end up playing more games, but both goalies get the chance to play a lot of games and compete for that #1 spot.

 

[Twist and Shout]

Fantastic.

Bernier has it in him to be incredible.

September can't come soon enough.

 

[Paradoc]

That's your rebuttal?

Want to answer my question?

Edit: I was quoting what you said in bold.

 

[FerrisRox]

With a guy who has 60-something NHL games under his belt? Reimer was T-7th in save percentage this year and stole a few games for us. Without him, this team certainly doesn't make the playoffs. Bernier has tons of potential, which is great, but it doesn't mean Reimer is immediately expendable or the #2 in Toronto.

Yes it does. You'll see.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

At least Nonis didn't give up a first rounder. Thank goodness for that. Leafs could have traded Scrivens for a pick and signed Kingston native UFA Mike Smith from Phoenix. Then the leafs would have proven starting goalie, an extra draft pick and Frattin. Instead they gave up picks and young assets for an unproven starter, albiet with potential.

This is a a head scratcher. Of course if Bernier turns into an elite goalie than Nonis will have a statue erected at ACC, if he's another Raycroft he's another JFJ consigned to hockeys ash heap never to be heard from again. I'm hoping for the former.

"proven starting goalie" seems strong words for a 31 year old who has only twice started more than half the games and once topped .916 (something Reimer and Bernier have done more times than Smith by 25 years of age).

 

[Bernier the Boats]

Can't believe people are upset with this... We just got an elite talent for pennies on the dollar due to his situation. Bernier will be fantastic, especially as the NHL is working to make equipment smaller for goalies. His athleticism will be on display.

 

[Yosho]

I see the positives here, but those pieces could have been used for more glaring issues.

Hope JB has a solid pair on him - the Toronto market is going to eat him up and **** him out if he can't handle the load.

 

[The Blue Devil]

If reimer was the MVP how come he doesn't have a single vezina vote for this year? Certainly GM saw something wrong in him?

Vezina is for top Goalie not MVP and he did receive a vote for the Heart.

 

[Crispy Crust]

Want to answer my question?

Edit: I was quoting what you said in bold.

The reason I asked is because your rebuttal is stupid. Seriously Vezina voting to try and chop down a goaltender? It's pretty ****ing obvious Reimer was the biggest reason this team qualified for the playoffs. Do you think this team makes the playoffs with Pavelec in net as opposed to Reimer? Let me guess, Randy Carlyle's vaunted defensive system made Reimer look good right?

 

[Paradoc]

Vezina is for top Goalie not MVP and he did receive a vote for the Heart.

Alright, he did post quite an impressive number yet other goalie below him got a vezina vote and the way people were praising Reimer didn't get a single vote.

 

[Future]

Or he's meddling, which is not a good thing.

Ugggh. He's not meddling. Apparently this deal has been in the works for a long time now. Before Leiweke even got here. Leiweke also isn't going to tell Nonis what to do because he himself even says he's not a hockey guy (in terms of being knowledgable about everything in the NHL).

 

[Dd89]

Long time kings fan here. I think I've watched every NHL game Bernier has been in
Here is what he brings:
1. Position position position. The way he squares up he makes himself big in net even though he's not the biggest guy
2. Efficient smooth calm. This guy makes the hard save look easy due to his superior positioning and fluid motion. His calm demeanor brings confidence to the team and the fan.
3. Consistency. Although he didnt play a ton in l.a. He always brought the same consistent game when he played. One thing u guys should now is that 2 of his losses this year were games where he came on in relief of quick. He only lost 1 game he started this year. As a Kings fan I always felt comfortable when he was in net. In some ways more so with him than Quick due to Quick's aggressive style.

 

[MoeMoney]

Not crazy about the deal, liked Frattin and would've liked to see him continue to grow here, Scrivens was replaceable and obviously needed to be involved in this trade... adding a 2nd rounder on top of this was maybe a bit much, but at least Leafs have option to pick which year they give it up.

What I really don't like about this trade is that it didn't really address the problem. Leafs didn't go out and get an experienced goalie to mentor Reimer, they went and got a guy about the same age, with worse stats than him. How does that improve things? and what message does it send to Reimer? Didn't need to make this deal, wasted assets that could've been better spent in a trade to address clear needs.

Considering how many teams were in the running, the Leafs had to throw in a 2nd rounder to sweeten the deal, not a big problem to lose a 2nd rounder. Frattin, although we all like him, is average at best, and his breakaway miss in game 7 in the last thing I remember out of Frattin, easily replaceable with many players coming up from the Marlies.

 

[Paradoc]

The reason I asked is because your rebuttal is stupid. Seriously Vezina voting to try and chop down a goaltender? It's pretty ****ing obvious Reimer was the biggest reason this team qualified for the playoffs. Do you think this team makes the playoffs with Pavelec in net as opposed to Reimer? Let me guess, Randy Carlyle's vaunted defensive system made Reimer look good right?

I would say that is true. Last year Reimer SV% was .900 yet when Carlyle came his SV% increased to .924. Plus even Scrivens got a SV of above .915. Carlyle system was basically force the attacker to shoot from the outside where majority of the shots went against. Plus, I doubt Reimer would have the same SV if this was a full season.

 

[FerrisRox]

Another myth. The Leafs were actually right around league average in giving up shots and goals from under 30ft out. The alarming part is how many shots and goals they gave up from 30+ out, which was well above league average. Carlyle's system really didn't limit the number of shots from under 30ft with respect to league average, but what they did do was allow way more shots from 30+ft out with respect to years prior.

Reimer saved their ass this year.

The Leafs "gave up a lot of shots from 30 feet out" because teams TOOK shots from 30 feet out WAY more against Toronto because THEY HAD THE GOALIE WITH THE WORST REBOUND CONTROL IN THE LEAGUE IN THE NET. It wasn't that other teams did a better job of "taking away" those far-out chances, its that teams didn't attempt them at nearly the volume they did against the Leafs, for obvious reasons.

Against an NHL goaltender, a 30 foot shot is pretty undesireable as a scoring chance because its very rarely going to go in and even more rarely will it result in anything other then the goalie either freezing the puck then playing it to a teammate or steering the rebound into the corner or open ice, essentially turning the "scoring chance" into a change of possession. But with Reimer, he mysteriously couldn't catch the puck or he somehow managed to create rebounds and dangerous ones on an alarming amount of those low percentage chances. That, right there, is why the Leafs GM felt it neccessary to make this move.

The Reimer fan boys can scratch their heads and be perplexed about this deal, and they can continue to pretend that the Leafs didn't have any goaltending issues, but what I just explained is exactly why they were kicking the tires on Miikka Kiprussoff, its exactly how they blew Game 7 against Boston (in a game where Riemer otherwise played great) and it's exactly why Bernier is now a Leaf.

 

[Orfieus]

Giving up Frattin isnt too much?

 

[ULF_55]

I would say that is true. Last year Reimer SV% was .900 yet when Carlyle came his SV% increased to .924. Plus even Scrivens got a SV of above .915.

You know who coaches the Kings right?

You know with Rotten Ronnie Reimer had a .921 in 37 games in 2010-2011 before his concussion season?

Perhaps it wasn't just Carlyle.

Seems since he did it with both his coaches so we can throw that myth out the window.

 

[Paradoc]

Anways, i'm confident Bernier will replace Reimer as the starter mid-way to the season. Bernier has much more Raw talent than Reimer does.

 

[Vexed]

I find it hard to argue the value of the trade. I can see the arguments about the need though.

I myself believe that having a good #1 goalie isn't enough in this city and that this deal can only be a good thing. Especially if you believe in building from the net out.

It wasn't too long ago where we thought having only 1 great goalie prospect was enough. Remember that when you watch Rask in game 6 and see how this move is learning from that mistake.

 

[shaner8989]

Such an amazing deal
Scrivens was garbage. Was fine for ahl
Frattin was god awful after his injury and ahl stint

Huge move

Welcome Bernier

 

[gordonshumway]

Considering how many teams were in the running, the Leafs had to throw in a 2nd rounder to sweeten the deal, not a big problem to lose a 2nd rounder.

That's what people always say... then two-three years later they lament not having those picks to grab the guys that slipped out of 1st round

Frattin, although we all like him, is average at best, and his breakaway miss in game 7 in the last thing I remember out of Frattin, easily replaceable with many players coming up from the Marlies.

That's what people said about giving up Stalberg too... let's hope it doesn't turn out the same way.