LD K'Andre Miller (2018, 22nd, NYR)

[NotProkofievian]

not a chance, Miller has some disconnected moments at time but he is easily the best defensive D from that U18 US squad, his gap control, positioning, physical attributes and skating are high end.. M.Samuelsson is a vanilla player, defensively he isnt bad but when forecheckers are coming fast on him, he tends to flumble and get in trouble, what is the opposite with Miller... I see Samuelsson as a Hainsey type of defenseman while Miller's upside is higher... that being said, I think that defensively, Dobson is the best D in the draft while Miller is certainly one of the best too...

Really? You've never seen that happen with Miller?

 

[ProspectsFanatic]

not a chance, Miller has some disconnected moments at time but he is easily the best defensive D from that U18 US squad, his gap control, physical attributes and skating are high end while positioning is quite fine but could get better.. M.Samuelsson is a vanilla player, defensively he isnt bad but when forecheckers are coming fast on him, he tends to flumble and get in trouble, what is the opposite with Miller... I see Samuelsson as a Hainsey type of defenseman while Miller's upside is higher... that being said, I think that defensively, Dobson is the best D in the draft while Miller is certainly one of the best too...

Lol I don't know how you came to those conclusions, but just no, I disagree. Samuelsson been USDP go-to guy defensively all year long, not Miller. Miller is very toolsy, but his defensive game definitely isn't as polished as Samuelsson right now at the very least, particularly in the physical aspect where Samuelsson is dominant (excel at corning players, wins nearly all his board battle). Samuelsson also a strong skater for his big stature, he ain't easy to dangle around. Like I just stated Miller learning curve from forward to defense is still a work in progress, especially in the defensive aspect of the game.

 

[Goldenhands]

Really? You've never seen that happen with Miller?

it could happen once a while like it could happen to Shea weber too but thats an area where he really excel at.

 

[Goldenhands]

Lol I don't know how you came to those conclusions, but just no, I disagree. Samuelsson been USDP go-to guy defensively all year long, not Miller. Miller is very toolsy, but his defensive game definitely isn't as polished as Samuelsson right now at the very least, particularly in the physical aspect where Samuelsson is dominant (excel at corning players, wins nearly all his board battle). Samuelsson also a strong skater for his big stature, he ain't easy to dangle around. Like I just stated Miller learning curve from forward to defense is still a work in progress, particularly in the defensive aspect of the game.

how many games did you watch the u18 us team? Ive been watching about 20-25 of their games and Miller was the one standing out for the good reasons almost every games... I can guarentee you that Miller will easily have the best carreer of the 2... Miller is way stronger than samuelsson, we just seem to desagree on alot of points...

 

[ProspectsFanatic]

how many games did you watch the u18 us team? Ive been watching about 20-25 of their game and Miller was the one standing out for the good reasons almost every games... I can guarentee you that Miller will easily have the best carreer of the 2...

Did you forget what you were arguing about? That's a different debate.

 

[Goldenhands]

Did you forget what you were arguing about? That's a different debate.

yeah but we dont share the same opinion.. Miller just win his puck battles easier than Samuelsson and looks way stronger, I saw him crush players like rag dolls... 1 thing M.Samuelsson is better at is positionning, thats really the only area where he really shine...

 

[Whalers Fan]

We've been through this debate in this thread numerous times. I've seen almost all of Miller's home games for the past two seasons live and have watched him struggle covering his opponent on the rush over and over. I actually went and looked for highlights of one of the games where he did this multiple times, as one of the miscues led directly to a goal. Unfortunately, the NTDP highlights for that January 12, 2018 game on YouTube only show the NTDP goals.

I still see Miller as very much a "work in progress" defensively. He has a lot of potential, but unless he can fix some of his technical flaws he's going to be a liability on defense at the higher levels.

 

[Kipper933]

Miller certainly has a lot of upside, but I don't see how he's in the same conversation for defensive abilities as Samuelsson right now.

 

[Teemu]

Miller certainly has a lot of upside, but I don't see how he's in the same conversation for defensive abilities as Samuelsson right now.

I think I might take Miller over Samuelsson defensively. Miller still has plenty to learn about positioning, but Samuelsson plays way too conservatively and doesn't force turnovers.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

We've been through this debate in this thread numerous times. I've seen almost all of Miller's home games for the past two seasons live and have watched him struggle covering his opponent on the rush over and over. I actually went and looked for highlights of one of the games where he did this multiple times, as one of the miscues led directly to a goal. Unfortunately, the NTDP highlights for that January 12, 2018 game on YouTube only show the NTDP goals.

I still see Miller as very much a "work in progress" defensively. He has a lot of potential, but unless he can fix some of his technical flaws he's going to be a liability on defense at the higher levels.

I think very few of the people who are telling us Miller is a great prospect have seen him play. I think they saw his partial advanced stats chart from like 5 games, and they liked that, so they became experts on Miller.

 

[Nsjohnson]

His flaws are more worried about than should be and his 'readiness' is also seen a bit through rosy glasses.

He is a dream pick if he goes after 20 IMO though. He needs time, but has the ceiling to, five years from now, to be said to have gone in the top 10.

 

[57special]

I think he should be a late 1st round, early 2nd, myself.

 

[Breakers]

I think very few of the people who are telling us Miller is a great prospect have seen him play. I think they saw his partial advanced stats chart from like 5 games, and they liked that, so they became experts on Miller.

Nope saw him again ND, Michigan, and Michigan State.

 

[cg98]

how many games did you watch the u18 us team? Ive been watching about 20-25 of their games and Miller was the one standing out for the good reasons almost every games... I can guarentee you that Miller will easily have the best carreer of the 2... Miller is way stronger than samuelsson, we just seem to desagree on alot of points...

I dont know what games youve been watching but I can tell you that Miller isnt as defensively polished as Samuelsson at all.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Nope saw him again ND, Michigan, and Michigan State.

I didn't mention any names. I said very few. Maybe you've watched him play. I don't know nor do I particularly care about your individual viewings of Miller. I was making a point about the people on this website.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Miller certainly has a lot of upside, but I don't see how he's in the same conversation for defensive abilities as Samuelsson right now.

I haven’t been following the discussion so forgive me if you’re arguing something else, but seeing as teams typically draft for projection and not who is better defensively at age 18, I’m not sure how that’s relevant.

 

[HenriquesJawLine]

We're not talking Jonas Brodin, here.

I would hope not

 

[Kipper933]

I haven’t been following the discussion so forgive me if you’re arguing something else, but seeing as teams typically draft for projection and not who is better defensively at age 18, I’m not sure how that’s relevant.

The poster I was responding to was saying that Miller was easily the best defensive D on the u18 US team.

 

[93LEAFS]

I think very few of the people who are telling us Miller is a great prospect have seen him play. I think they saw his partial advanced stats chart from like 5 games, and they liked that, so they became experts on Miller.

I've seen him a few times and would be quite happy with him at 25. I think his issues can be fixed through coaching and it isn't that he's hockey dumb. I think its more puck watching issues than fundamental issues that are hard to fix at 17. He also appears to be a high-character person willing to put in the work by all accounts. So, it isn't someone with tools but you have no faith in their ability to put work in like Sean Day.

Although, I am getting sick of those partial advanced stat charts. The guy had issues grading Bouchard because he couldn't figure out how to grade a man to man defence in his system, calling it too complex.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I've seen him a few times and would be quite happy with him at 25. I think his issues can be fixed through coaching and it isn't that he's hockey dumb. I think its more puck watching issues than fundamental issues that are hard to fix at 17. He also appears to be a high-character person willing to put in the work by all accounts. So, it isn't someone with tools but you have no faith in their ability to put work in like Sean Day.

I agree to disagree. I think he's hockey dumb and his "tools" are made up in the same way they were for Sean Day. But I respect your opinion, and know you have an idea of what you are saying before you say it.

 

[93LEAFS]

I agree to disagree. I think he's hockey dumb and his "tools" are made up in the same way they were for Sean Day. But I respect your opinion, and know you have an idea of what you are saying before you say it.

The main difference with Day, was Day has absolutely no work ethic.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The main difference with Day, was Day has absolutely no work ethic.

I don't think thats all it was. I don't think Day ever had the tools people claimed. I think it was assumed he would have them because he was big, great skater, could move the puck. When teams are looking for which defensemen could really improve, turn into a top pairing D, those are the types of players that often do. They have the frames, the skating, they need to now start being good at hockey and not only scouting report. But a lot of those guys never develop the hockey talent. And I think both of those guys, Day and Miller, are similar. They look the part, but the hockey skills aren't there. And I don't see either maximizing the talent they had because I think both are low hockey IQ players. That video that was posted the other week about Bouchard, I see a lot of the same recognition errors, subtle dumb plays from Miller.

I don't think he's helped out by Appert who was a terrible coach, nor do I think playing at times with a player with maybe just as low of a hockey IQ in Wilde helped, but I think Miller is exactly the type of player that seems like he has a lot of potential, but actually doesn't. Last year, I was right there with those who thought he had good potential. I thought he looked like a player who could develop well, but so far I just haven't seen any development from Miller and I think part of that is the hockey IQ.

 

[MMC]

Welcome to New York!

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Reminds me of Sean Day. Good size and skating, lacks hockey skills.

Maybe they'll be a pairing...

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Don't like this pick, but I hope he proves me wrong. He fits exactly what Gorton is looking for on the back end though. Skating, puck moving. Worry about the rest after that.