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LD K'Andre Miller (2018, 22nd, NYR)

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93LEAFS said:
While it is interesting, there are some issues with the project that should be pointed out. He did not track every game, he tried to chose games at random then extrapolate. I'm pretty sure for most players, we are talking about a sample that consists of less than 1/6th of their games.
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there is no way every game can be tracked, but none the hell this info is better then no info. even if its 8 or 9 games.
 
TT1 said:
well regardless of the sample size Miller was by far the highest producing ES/60 dman in the USHL this season (u-18)
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agreed. it also backs up the concerns of the users who said Wilde has some big time iq issues in his own zone, (before the graph was posted) that literally almost confirms it, what the struggles he has defending and clearing the puck.
 
lawrence said:
there is no way every game can be tracked, but none the hell this info is better then no info. even if its 8 or 9 games.
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There is a way, but no public service could justify it. It would have to be either something NHL central scouting decided was good for communal information for teams, and was therefore funded by all 31 owners. Or, an extremely wealthy owner or franchise could decide it was a worthwhile investment for a team.

I'm skeptical about extrapolating a 12 game sample or so to cover a guys season (although, in a bunch of cases, it is comparable to how many times a scout would see a team). But, I think the limited amount of games that go into this should always be made readily apparent that is based on a small sample and then extrapolated. Which is rarely made clear when people post these charts, so people think that this data covers an entire season, unless they read the full write up on it, on the Athletic which is behind a pay-wall.
 
lawrence said:
agreed. it also backs up the concerns of the users who said Wilde has some big time iq issues in his own zone, (before the graph was posted) that literally almost confirms it, what the struggles he has defending and clearing the puck.
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I have seen almost every home game played by Wilde and Miller for the past two seasons. They both have defensive issues, although those issues are very different. In Miller's case, he looks like exactly what he is -- a former winger trying to learn to play defense. He struggled with many of the fundamentals required of the position defensively. In Wilde's case, he was constantly out of position. Some of the things he tried to accomplish were jaw-dropping bad. I'm not sure how any of that translates to those charts, and really don't care. My opinions on these two have been formed by actually watching them play more than 30 times. I think both are a very high risk, high reward selection in the first round.

Neither player was done any favors with coaching in their U18 season, either, which is where the hope for future improvement lies -- with better coaching. First year head coach Seth Appert did not appear to have any type of defensive system, and both Miller and Wilde actually got worse as the season progressed. Appert also had Wilde and Miller on the same defensive pairing most of the season, which made no sense and fed each player's defensive weaknesses.
 
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Whalers Fan said:
I have seen almost every home game played by Wilde and Miller for the past two seasons. They both have defensive issues, although those issues are very different. In Miller's case, he looks like exactly what he is -- a former winger trying to learn to play defense. He struggled with many of the fundamentals required of the position defensively. In Wilde's case, he was constantly out of position. Some of the things he tried to accomplish were jaw-dropping bad. I'm not sure how any of that translates to those charts, and really don't care. My opinions on these two have been formed by actually watching them play more than 30 times. I think both are a very high risk, high reward selection in the first round.

Neither player was done any favors with coaching in their U18 season, either, which is where the hope for future improvement lies -- with better coaching. First year head coach Seth Appert did not appear to have any type of defensive system, and both Miller and Wilde actually got worse as the season progressed. Appert also had Wilde and Miller on the same defensive pairing most of the season, which made no sense and fed each player's defensive weaknesses.
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This site needs more opinions like yours based on actually watching the players as opposed to just stat watching. Thanks for sharing that. Really eye opening.
 
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Whalers Fan said:
I have seen almost every home game played by Wilde and Miller for the past two seasons. They both have defensive issues, although those issues are very different. In Miller's case, he looks like exactly what he is -- a former winger trying to learn to play defense. He struggled with many of the fundamentals required of the position defensively. In Wilde's case, he was constantly out of position. Some of the things he tried to accomplish were jaw-dropping bad. I'm not sure how any of that translates to those charts, and really don't care. My opinions on these two have been formed by actually watching them play more than 30 times. I think both are a very high risk, high reward selection in the first round.

Neither player was done any favors with coaching in their U18 season, either, which is where the hope for future improvement lies -- with better coaching. First year head coach Seth Appert did not appear to have any type of defensive system, and both Miller and Wilde actually got worse as the season progressed. Appert also had Wilde and Miller on the same defensive pairing most of the season, which made no sense and fed each player's defensive weaknesses.
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Arent you the one that said Miller couldnt skate backwards? If so, how do you explain his neutral zone and gap control success?
 
Goldenhands said:
Arent you the one that said Miller couldnt skate backwards? If so, how do you explain his neutral zone and gap control success?
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I said he had issues covering his opponent while skating backwards. I watched him turn his back on his opponent numerous times in this situation, allowing the opponent to skate by for a clear path on net. It was as if he wasn't comfortable trying to cover the skater in that situation. I am not sure how you are measuring "gap control" - - I can only tell you what I saw with my own eyes in person at USA Arena.
 
Looked great to me in the couple of U18 games I watched. Surprised he didn't put up more points than he had.
 
Whalers Fan said:
I said he had issues covering his opponent while skating backwards. I watched him turn his back on his opponent numerous times in this situation, allowing the opponent to skate by for a clear path on net. It was as if he wasn't comfortable trying to cover the skater in that situation. I am not sure how you are measuring "gap control" - - I can only tell you what I saw with my own eyes in person at USA Arena.
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I saw about 15-20 games of Miller and always thought he was very solid skating backwards and always was amazed by his gap control... just take a look at his advanced stats, he is basically perfect in the neutral zone... I highly disagree with your overall assessment on the guy, I think he looks absolutely great for a guy who swapped positions not that long ago...
 
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Goldenhands said:
I saw about 15-20 games of Miller and always thought he was very solid skating backwards and always was amazed by his gap control... just take a look at his advanced stats, he is basically perfect in the neutral zone... I highly disagree with your overall assessment on the guy, I think he looks absolutely great for a guy who swapped positions not that long ago...
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We will just have to agree to disagree on this one. If you check out this year's US NTDP thread, you can see my thoughts on Miller and the other players as the season unfolded. I am at almost all the home games, as we have season tickets and the arena is only 3 miles from home.
 
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Goldenhands said:
I saw about 15-20 games of Miller and always thought he was very solid skating backwards and always was amazed by his gap control... just take a look at his advanced stats, he is basically perfect in the neutral zone... I highly disagree with your overall assessment on the guy, I think he looks absolutely great for a guy who swapped positions not that long ago...
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Reasonable diffrmerenceof opinipn with the prior poster. Very fair.
 
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This kids ceiling is so high

He's been playing defense for only 2 years, and already puts up the best numbers on USNTDP.
His skating with his reach.
 
Pronman thinks he his probably the best defensive D man in the draft. Agree/disagree?
 
Deam78 said:
Pronman thinks he his probably the best defensive D man in the draft. Agree/disagree?
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If so, then this must be a godawful draft for defensive Dmen. Like Miller, and he has talent, but he is a newbie to Defence. We're not talking Jonas Brodin, here.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
Not even close. I don't think he's good defensively.

Where did you find this? Was it a recent article?
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In his mailbag on TheAthletic, when he was asked who was the best defensive Dman, he answered Miller.

With Alexeyev being probably secound.
 
Deam78 said:
In his mailbag on TheAthletic, when he was asked who was the best defensive Dman, he answered Miller.

With Alexeyev being probably secound.
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I have no idea about Alexeyev
But Miller has a 90% zone exit percentage. 2nd to only Beaudin. Translation when he gets control of the puck in his own zone its getting out and with possession.
 
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TT1 said:
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A few years playing the position and his ceiling is incredible. I have a very strong feeling he'll land somewhere between the 12 - 18 pick and wouldn't be surprised if sooner.
 
ProspectsFanatic said:
Disagree, he is very meh defensively, still transitioning from being a forward a couple year ago, makes poor decisions sometimes. Samuelsson is the best defensive Dman IMO.
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not a chance, Miller has some disconnected moments at time but he is easily the best defensive D from that U18 US squad, his gap control, physical attributes and skating are high end while positioning is quite fine but could get better.. M.Samuelsson is a vanilla player, defensively he isnt bad but when forecheckers are coming fast on him, he tends to flumble and get in trouble, what is the opposite with Miller, he will use his body, strenght, reach and smarts to get the best on forecheckers to get out of trouble... I see Samuelsson as a Hainsey type of defenseman while Miller's upside is higher... that being said, I think that defensively, Dobson is the best D in the draft while Miller is certainly one of the best too... as of now, I see Miller as a very solid 2nd pairing defenseman who can do a bit of everything but I think he still can improve his offensive game, he should have the opportunity to get some PP time in Wisconsin, what he didnt get at all this year, so we wil have to see how much that can be improved.. very good prospect with likely untapped upside I have been high on this kid for a while...
 
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