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Last year for Tavares if we don't go deep in the playoffs?

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banks said:
This is pure garbage.

I posted this on the main board in the Tavares thread. Here's his last 10 seasons points per game:

2020-210.9
2019-201
2018-191.1
2017-181
2016-170.9
2015-160.9
2014-151
2013-141.1
2012-131
2011-121
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Where's the decline? Same production. It's almost insanely consistent. You say he declined after 2014, and then again after he signed in Toronto. Yet he matched his 2013-14 peak after signing in Toronto. A slight variance season-to-season isn't a decline. He's done great since signing here.

Complain about the cap structure, discuss the playoff failures, lament his age or possible future decline. Sure. But stop lying about his current production or some made up "steady decline". He hasn't had a steady decline. It's the exact same production he's had for a decade.
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[/QUOTE]
maybe people watching him play get fooled by how poorly he skates and how dependent he is on his linemates to create offensive opportunities for him

and maybe there also factoring in that is up and that 1 , .9 , .8 ppg his last 3 yrs is declining
 
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hotpaws said:
maybe people watching him play get fooled by how poorly he skates and how dependent he is on his linemates to create offensive opportunities for him

and maybe there also factoring in that is up and that 1 , .9 , .8 ppg his last 3 yrs is declining
Click to expand...

The first part is valid. I'd agree, he is an awkward skater, for sure. He used to make careers for his linemates with the Islanders, but he does seem to be less of a line driver now.

But I don't think the last 3 years is a "decline". The .8 you mention is only the 10 games this season. Hardly a real sample size, especially when the whole team started slow this year. A variance of .1 PPG isn't enough to call anything a decline, especially when the numbers are still at and around his previous 10 seasons and his overall career average.
 
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banks said:
maybe people watching him play get fooled by how poorly he skates and how dependent he is on his linemates to create offensive opportunities for him

and maybe there also factoring in that is up and that 1 , .9 , .8 ppg his last 3 yrs is declining
Click to expand...

The first part is valid. I'd agree, he is an awkward skater, for sure. He used to make careers for his linemates with the Islanders, but he does seem to be less of a line driver now.

But I don't think the last 3 years is a "decline". The .8 you mention is only the 10 games this season. Hardly a real sample size, especially when the whole team started slow this year. A variance of .1 PPG isn't enough to call anything a decline, especially when the numbers are still at and around his previous 10 seasons and his overall career average.[/QUOTE]
He has not had to be a line driver during his time here..., He has had Mitch or Willy as his line driver since he arrived
 
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Puckstuff said:
5.6 million in real money over the last 3 years starting July 1 is not just fair value its + + value for a salary strapped team who could use a #1 C.



Why?

If the leafs are abysmal or even just outside the playoffs this year it would be in John's best interest to consider leaving especially if he wants to win a cup. So unless he was blatantly lieing about wanting to win a cup he would have to consider it if things get that bad this year. Not to mention a few leaked articles to the Toronto Sun, Star, TSN, Sportsnet and leaf fans turning on you i.e Marner it can really put the pressure on someone to leave and waive a NMC. Leaf fans can make your life a living hell. In fact, I would expect this to happen if they replace Dubas with a GM with an A type personality. Nothing against John personally but he's only been worth the money in 1 year so far.
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So what about now?

Funny huh, career year with Marner, back with Marner again and playing top of his game hockey.

I said it last year and I said it again this year, he and Mitch are hand in glove made for each other. In London Mitch played with Dvorak a hard working not real flashy center and magic resulted. Mitch is good with anybody for sure, but he and Tavares exceed the sum of their parts.
 
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therealkoho said:
So what about now?

Funny huh, career year with Marner, back with Marner again and playing top of his game hockey.

I said it last year and I said it again this year, he and Mitch are hand in glove made for each other. In London Mitch played with Dvorak a hard working not real flashy center and magic resulted. Mitch is good with anybody for sure, but he and Tavares exceed the sum of their parts.
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Price just went up
 
therealkoho said:
So what about now?

Funny huh, career year with Marner, back with Marner again and playing top of his game hockey.

I said it last year and I said it again this year, he and Mitch are hand in glove made for each other. In London Mitch played with Dvorak a hard working not real flashy center and magic resulted. Mitch is good with anybody for sure, but he and Tavares exceed the sum of their parts.
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Marner has always elevated whoever he plays with and the reason he's back with JT is because our 11m franchise C needs someone to do the majority of the heavy lifting while he hovers around down low in open space until someone can crate a scoring opportunity for him .

JT thrives with Marner because Marner covers a lot of ice like a center and JT plays like a winger , basically an upgrade version of JVR . Mik would be a good compliment with these 2 since he covers a ton of ice and doesn't just hang around the net occupying the same space a JT .

Mathews can create more than Tavares and while he may score a few less goal with Willie he should pick up a few more assists , there both active players and Bunting should be a decent fit with them .
 
hotpaws said:
Marner has always elevated whoever he plays with and the reason he's back with JT is because our 11m franchise C needs someone to do the majority of the heavy lifting while he hovers around down low in open space until someone can crate a scoring opportunity for him .

JT thrives with Marner because Marner covers a lot of ice like a center and JT plays like a winger , basically an upgrade version of JVR . Mik would be a good compliment with these 2 since he covers a ton of ice and doesn't just hang around the net occupying the same space a JT .

Mathews can create more than Tavares and while he may score a few less goal with Willie he should pick up a few more assists , there both active players and Bunting should be a decent fit with them .
Click to expand...

I hate saying this but "hover?" You just blew any credibility my friend, there isn't another Leaf as good on the boards as JT and at winning puck battles. Hover my arse.
 
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therealkoho said:
I hate saying this but "hover?" You just blew any credibility my friend, there isn't another Leaf as good on the boards as JT and at winning puck battles. Hover my arse.
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when i said hover i didn't mean he plays soft , it was about where he sets up

but if you don't like the term hover that's fine , i could use the term vulture or something else if you like but the fact remains JT usually sets up down below the hash marks below/away from the play waiting for the puck to come to him
 
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hotpaws said:
maybe people watching him play get fooled by how poorly he skates and how dependent he is on his linemates to create offensive opportunities for him

and maybe there also factoring in that is up and that 1 , .9 , .8 ppg his last 3 yrs is declining
Click to expand...

Last season Tavares point production was on pace for just 4 points less than his career average.

As far as "declines" go, hard to think of a more insignificant one as far as production is concerned
 
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Menzinger said:
Last season Tavares point production was on pace for just 4 points less than his career average.

As far as "declines" go, hard to think of a more insignificant one as far as production is concerned
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scoring is up and he plays with better players so his production should have been higher if you believe he is still the exact same player he once was

and if he was playing as well as he always has why the constant excuses the lase 2 season ?

- gave birth to his first child
- wasn't trying to score/concentrating on D
- coming back from a broken finger
- his linemates are letting him down
-
 
hotpaws said:
scoring is up and he plays with better players so his production should have been higher if you believe he is still the exact same player he once was

and if he was playing as well as he always has why the constant excuses the lase 2 season ?

- gave birth to his first child
- wasn't trying to score/concentrating on D
- coming back from a broken finger
- his linemates are letting him down
-
Click to expand...

Two seasons ago he still scored above his career average pace. There's certainly been stretches where he hasn't looked good, and sure, fair to say he's not as good at 30 as he did at 25.

But on the whole, his offensive output these last few season still doesn't align at all with your narrative that he's washed up at this point. He's 30+ and producing as he always has.
 
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No.

He lied to the Islanders, saying he would resign there, so they wouldn't trade him to another team.

He ignored a better offer from another team.

He got a contract that guarantees we can't trade him to another team.

He wants to play in Toronto, and nowhere else, and manipulated things to that end.

Like it or not, he is staying in Toronto as long as he wants.
 
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I like JT. I don't think he's the best captain, but I don't know who would make a better one on this team. I used to think it could be Matthews but I'm not quite sure he would fit the bill.

As far as all the JT hate he was getting the first few games this year, I never really understood. Prior to getting hurt in game 1 vs. Habs, Tavares was a beast for the last couple of months of the reg season and probably our best forward game in game out. He looks like that same guy now.
 
Had he been able to lead the Leafs to some playoff success the spotlight wouldn't definitely be as intense but I think his play is as expected for the duration of his contract so far.

I think we all knew years 4-7 could be a rollercoaster. He still has gas left in the tank but he's started to decline a bit.

But he's here until at least year 6. Too costly to move him.
 
banks said:
This is pure garbage.

I posted this on the main board in the Tavares thread. Here's his last 10 seasons points per game:

2020-210.9
2019-201
2018-191.1
2017-181
2016-170.9
2015-160.9
2014-151
2013-141.1
2012-131
2011-121
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Where's the decline? Same production. It's almost insanely consistent. You say he declined after 2014, and then again after he signed in Toronto. Yet he matched his 2013-14 peak after signing in Toronto. How can he have a "steady decline" followed by an "increasing decline" and then end up higher than he was? A slight variance season-to-season isn't a decline. He's done great since signing here.

Complain about the cap structure, discuss the team's playoff failures, lament Tavares' age or possible future decline. Sure. But stop lying about his current production or some made up "steady decline". He hasn't had a steady decline. It's the exact same production he's had for a decade.
Click to expand...

Goals scored in the NHL since he entered the league (13 seasons):

1. Ovi
2. Stamkos
3. Tavares
4. Kane
5. Crosby


Points scored in the NHL since he entered the league:

1. Kane
2. Crosby
3. Ovi
4. Giroux
5. Stamkos
6. Tavares

His insanely stable production has led to one of the better careers of this generation. Really sucks he got hurt last year as he was playing great hockey at the time and would have no doubt helped push the Leafs into a deeper run IMO.
 
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John Tavares will retire as Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

all the Sunday morning armchair GMs on this forum... I don't even consider them real Leaf Fans.
 
Zybalto said:
Goals scored in the NHL since he entered the league (13 seasons):

1. Ovi
2. Stamkos
3. Tavares
4. Kane
5. Crosby


Points scored in the NHL since he entered the league:

1. Kane
2. Crosby
3. Ovi
4. Giroux
5. Stamkos
6. Tavares

His insanely stable production has led to one of the better careers of this generation. Really sucks he got hurt last year as he was playing great hockey at the time and would have no doubt helped push the Leafs into a deeper run IMO.
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Not particularly surprising, as he is also 12th in games played (among forwards), and has spent his entire career on offence-first teams.

But what does all this have to do with the topic, which is: is he doing as well now, and is he helping us do better in the playoffs?
 
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