Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[YP44]

just me or does it seem like they are a lot fewer trades this season than years prior for the NHL as a whole?

Looking out East we all know who is in the playoffs already. You would think that would more clearly define buyers vs sellers and there would be more movement

 

[Schmooley]

Got it....so then the metrics that everyone is posting, means absolutely f***all?

People are posting metrics that show his play defensively isnt where it should be and hes losing matchups on a daily basis.
Anyways the biggest metric is winning and theyve been bottom of the league for years now with Kopitar getting run into the ground. They have personnel that can take some of the burden off him so why not use it?

 

[lexlavender]

One thing that rarely gets brought up in these discussions is Kopitar himself. Kopitar has been the most important part of this team since 2006, and is a future 1st ballot HOFer. He has earned a say, and as we know TMac and Blake both keep him in the loop regarding team planning and outlook.

Do you really think one of the most talented, successful players of the past two decades is just going to be okay with reduced minutes? I get that there's chain of command, but again, Kopi has earned the longest leash of anyone in the org, so if he says he wants to play big minutes then he'll get every opportunity to continue doing it.

I'm not saying that is right or wrong, it's just likely a reality of the situation. These are competitive, proud, professional athletes we're talking about. The same goes for Doughty and all the same critiques on his icetime. You think Drew wouldn't notice if his minutes were reduced? Kopitar is quieter to the media, but we have no idea what convos go on between captain and coach.

I agree with this 100 percent. It's easy for us lookie-loos to say Kopi is worked too hard, but when you have the guy in the room saying he can do it, it's a lot harder to make the call. Especially when you are, mostly, winning.

Kopitar won't get reduced time until we start losing or we start winning so hard that it doesn't matter.

 

[Maynard]

Got it....so then the metrics that everyone is posting, means absolutely f***all?

There you go! Just take one tidbit of what was said, exaggerate the f*** out of it, and then react to only that, without any of the surrounding context. You argue like a bitch.

 

[King'sPawn]

Got it....so then the metrics that everyone is posting, means absolutely f***all?

That's strictly percentile, in a league where a large chunk of people have been hit hard with COVID. Kopitar playing more and improving with his peers doesn't mean his overall play relative to himself has improved.

Are you saying with a straight face his overall play this year is just as good as it usually is? If you don't think so, then why do you suppose that is? If you do think so, then what criteria are you using?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

There you go! Just take one tidbit of what was said, exaggerate the f*** out of it, and then react to only that, without any of the surrounding context. You argue like a bitch.

I wasn't arguing, I was asking a question, because when you bring up the metrics....and it's argued that no but eye test....and then you bring up the eye test...and then it's no but metrics....

So which one is it? Whichever one makes you think you win the argument?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

That's strictly percentile, in a league where a large chunk of people have been hit hard with COVID. Kopitar playing more and improving with his peers doesn't mean his overall play relative to himself has improved.

Are you saying with a straight face his overall play this year is just as good as it usually is? If you don't think so, then why do you suppose that is? If you do think so, then what criteria are you using?

Fair enough on the top answer, and actually I think his defensive game has slipped....slightly.....as to why, who the f*** nows, maybe he's breaking in new skates, maybe he's staying up too night in long poker games in Chinatown....but yea, that extra minute he gets of ice time, that's surefire the culprit....right? Because everyone here has experience playing any kind of high level pro hockey, that they can make that determination? Kopitar has ALWAYS skated like he's in sand...he's ALWAYS played with the same even keel intensity....but all of a sudden, we have shiny new toys, it's a problem NOW?

 

[Fat Elvis]

A few statistical oddities at the half-way mark of the season. Special teams is the theme today.

Kings' best penalty killer is... I'll give you three guesses. Wrong. Wrong. Last chance... Wrong. It's Sean Durzi! 24 minutes of PK time, zero goals against. For a forward, Blake Lizotte has been on the ice for 6 goals against, but 3 shorthanded goals for, so really quite good.

Worst penalty killer is... Drew Doughty. Boy does he get scored on a lot while killing penalties. A whopping 18.65 goals against per 60 minutes of PK.

Best player on the power play? Vladimir Tkachev with two points in 10 minutes of PP time, 17 goals for per 60. He might be good at this. For an actual regular player, that title would also go to Sean Durzi. 46 minutes of PP, 6 goals for, no shorties allowed. F

Worst player on the power play? I know many of you will guess Dustin Brown, but it's actually Matt Roy by a country mile. In 46 minutes of PP time, 3 goals for, 3 goals against for a net goal differential of zero on the power play. Oof.

I'd list stats for empty net special teams, but being that the Kings have yet to score a goal with the goalie pulled, it's all ugly.

Absolutely zero of us would have guessed that the best rookie on the team thus far would be Sean Durzi, but these numbers don't lie. He's fun to watch and made the team measurably better in key roles.

I'm hesitant to suggest this, but what do I care.

Maybe DD8 shouldn't play pk minutes.. The roster is filled with offensive deficient dmen. Give them the pk minutes. It would keep DD8 fresher to play a better 5x5 and hopefully increase their offense.

 

[tny760]

sounds like "Ignored Member" is back at it again in this thread

lmao

 

[DoktorJeep]

Fair enough on the top answer, and actually I think his defensive game has slipped....slightly.....as to why, who the f*** nows, maybe he's breaking in new skates, maybe he's staying up too night in long poker games in Chinatown....but yea, that extra minute he gets of ice time, that's surefire the culprit....right? Because everyone here has experience playing any kind of high level pro hockey, that they can make that determination? Kopitar has ALWAYS skated like he's in sand...he's ALWAYS played with the same even keel intensity....but all of a sudden, we have shiny new toys, it's a problem NOW?

For $10M “who knows” is the wrong answer. It’s needs to be all hands on deck to figure out why a guy making that much money isn’t a top 5 player in the league every single night. That’s what the money is for, not for what the TEAM did for a couple of seasons almost a decade ago. You can put Doughty into the same bucket.

 

[Schmooley]

all of a sudden, we have shiny new toys, it's a problem NOW?

Yea pretty much. Danault and Lizotte are playing really well and Byfield should be easing in right about now. Turcotte and Kupari are other options also. Kings havent had this luxury since the Stoll/Richards/Carter years. And Kopitar isnt quite as good as he was back then either.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

For $10M “who knows” is the wrong answer. It’s needs to be all hands on deck to figure out why a guy making that much money isn’t a top 5 player in the league every single night. That’s what the money is for, not for what the TEAM did for a couple of seasons almost a decade ago. You can put Doughty into the same bucket.

Sorry, I'm not involved in the daily operations of the team, I was asked what I thought, WTF knows is my answer, if you want to hire me and pay me like them, then maybe I will dig into it more....

Tell me though, define a top 5 player, top 10 player, are you looking at what....points? If so, does anyone believe Kadri is a top 5 player in the league? Timo Meier at top 10?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Yea pretty much. Danault and Lizotte are playing really well and Byfield should be easing in right about now. Turcotte and Kupari are other options also. Kings havent had this luxury since the Stoll/Richards/Carter years. And Kopitar isnt quite as good as he was back then either.

Agreed to a point, but he hasn't done a single thing different in his 16 years here....or however long it's been....is he quite as good...no, but he's not nearly as bad as this board thinks he is....

 

[Docgonzo]

Man when did I log back into letsgokings, this board has become shitty. Just people arguing about the same crap day in and day out and acting superior about it.

With all the arguing you’d think the Kings were DFL with zero hopes of a future.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Sorry, I'm not involved in the daily operations of the team, I was asked what I thought, WTF knows is my answer, if you want to hire me and pay me like them, then maybe I will dig into it more....

Tell me though, define a top 5 player, top 10 player, are you looking at what....points? If so, does anyone believe Kadri is a top 5 player in the league? Timo Meier at top 10?

Tell me captain strawman, why isn’t Crosby, Kane and Ovechkin way better than Kopitar? Does everyone believe that east coast bias is the only reason Bergeron is considered the best Selke winner of the past 10 years? No one pays me to post on HF Boards, so if I’m wrong here, I’ll get to work on fixing it as soon as I get paid to do so.

 

[Herby]

Man when did I log back into letsgokings, this board has become shitty. Just people arguing about the same crap day in and day out and acting superior about it.

With all the arguing you’d think the Kings were DFL with zero hopes of a future.

That is what every sports messageboard in the universe is like.

 

[YP44]

Man when did I log back into letsgokings, this board has become shitty. Just people arguing about the same crap day in and day out and acting superior about it.

With all the arguing you’d think the Kings were DFL with zero hopes of a future.

was thinking today, imagine if back in September someone told you that the Kings would be second in the division at the halfway point, and the pissing and moaning on these boards would also be at an all time high. Would I believe it? Yes because it is HF Boards. But really we all need to take a step back and realize the progress of this team. The climb up is the time when everyone should be singing Kumbaya and loving life.
I blame Biden....seems like the cool thing to do.

 

[Docgonzo]

That is what every sports messageboard in the universe is like.

Used to be different in here, more respectful. Like when we used to do playoff avatars and it was all just fun. Now? It’d just be yelling at each other over avatar decisions. Or the San Jose dance offs, can’t see anything like that happening.

 

[kingsfan]

Hockey is played in the ice, not on a spreadsheet.
There is also no metric for playing without any will to fight or win, skating like on sleeping pills.
Kopitar is payed 10 mill and plays like 3mill.
The highest scoring points over the last 4 years are freaking 62 points.

All this is observed by everyone who actually watches games.

Since you want to use points, Kopitar has 208 points since the start of the 2018-2019 season. That ranks 34th in the entire NHL and PPG wise is very comparable to J.T. Miller, Evgeni Kuznetsov, Claude Giroux, Gabriel Lankeskog and Alex DeBrincat. Where are you finding guys like that for $3 million? 2007-2008?

 

[crassbonanza]

Used to be different in here, more respectful. Like when we used to do playoff avatars and it was all just fun. Now? It’d just be yelling at each other over avatar decisions. Or the San Jose dance offs, can’t see anything like that happening.

We don't have Cap Space penciled in as the first line left winger anymore. Ever since he left it has all been downhill.

 

[Docgonzo]

We don't have Cap Space penciled in as the first line left winger anymore. Ever since he left it has all been downhill.

Shouldve given him the captaincy of the team and the board.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Here's a metric for you, last ten games (since Jan 1st):

Kopitar played > 20 minutes 6 times (22:10, 20:43, 21:07, 21:40, 20:33, 22:28) In those games, the Kings were 3-3. Kopitar: 6GP, 1g, 2a, -7. 61% CF%, 0 GF%.
Bonus--right before those 6 he played 26:14 in a loss vs. Van, a game in which he posted 0s all around, but 80+% CF%.

Kopitar played < 20 minutes 4 times (17:28, 18:53, 19:56, 19:43). In those games, the Kings were 3-1. Kopitar: 4GP, 3g, 2a, +4. 55% CF%, 83% GF%.

My hypothesis is that TM feeds him extra minutes when it looks like his possession is on--so his perceived effectiveness goes up--but in reality his (defensive, especially, which would correlate with skating/legs) effectiveness wanes with the extra workload. Yet Kopitar's personal effectiveness all-around increases with the lesser minutes--and the rest of the team thrives with additional opportunity.

Make of that what you will.

 

[kilowatt]

I agree with this 100 percent. It's easy for us lookie-loos to say Kopi is worked too hard, but when you have the guy in the room saying he can do it, it's a lot harder to make the call. Especially when you are, mostly, winning.

Kopitar won't get reduced time until we start losing or we start winning so hard that it doesn't matter.

Then maybe Kopitar should reflect on the minutes he was given when he entered the league. Center the top line with Brown and Cammalleri, playing 20+ minutes a night. I bet Byfield would love a chance to play with Iafallo and Kempe.

 

[tbrown33]

I'm stupid but why is the comparison last season v. last season plus this season? Shouldn't it be last season v. this season?

The reason he was doing that is because the dataset from last year was small during a shortened season, so he's showing both last year plus this year and last year combined for now. His 2021-2022 only cards are coming soon, although they would have been nice to have already.

 

[King'sPawn]

Fair enough on the top answer, and actually I think his defensive game has slipped....slightly.....as to why, who the f*** nows, maybe he's breaking in new skates, maybe he's staying up too night in long poker games in Chinatown....but yea, that extra minute he gets of ice time, that's surefire the culprit....right? Because everyone here has experience playing any kind of high level pro hockey, that they can make that determination? Kopitar has ALWAYS skated like he's in sand...he's ALWAYS played with the same even keel intensity....but all of a sudden, we have shiny new toys, it's a problem NOW?

I think, despite our disagreements, you're smarter than this, which is what makes discussing things with you admittedly frustrating.

What do you think is the MOST LIKELY culprit for his decrease in performance:
- new skates
- late-night gambling
- age combined with heavy minutes year after year

I believe you said you were a scout. In your capacity of a scout, would you not agree there is a sweet spot in ice time for players? Not a hard and fast rule of specific thresholds, but isn't it fair to say that play starts to taper after a certain amount of time? Conversely, don't players generally benefit from getting a minimal amount of time so they can keep their legs and rhythm?

Kopitar's played very hard minutes all his career. He has been surprisingly durable. Why is it so absurd to believe making a career out of playing hard minutes might start taking a toll?

Edit: I'll add I don't think Kopitar is as bad as many out here say he is, either. However, I do believe he has declined a bit, and the Kings have capable personnel to lighten his load AND keep the team competitive.