Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[No Name The Nameless]

Screw getting McNabb. I’m not paying 6 million a year for more ‘good’ players. After watching these east teams I want to see skill on this team. Less north and south guys. We need guys that that can skate and has good hands.
Give me something to enjoy. Did you hear the Rangers crowd? Even Tampa crowd were nuts. They are rock stars. The Kings are cavemen (no offense Kaliyev).

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Kings doing their best to ruin Byfield, but he's still incredible.

Overall: 64% CF (6.89 rel) and SCF, 87.5% HDCF% (42.05 rel).

Tonight: 80% CF (22.62 rel) and SCF, 100% HDCF (66.67 rel). Despite the LOWEST ozone start ratio on the team (33%). LOL. Same shit they did to vilardi, turcotte, et. al....put them in a position to fail by playing them with the worst players in the lineup and in the hardest zone starts, reduce their ice time when they don't score, bench them if they make a mistake, banish them to purgatory shortly thereafter. Good ol self-fulfilling prophecy at it again.

 

[Trash Panda]

At this point, if you’re going to play Turcotte & Byfield along boat anchors for 10 minutes a night, you’d be money ahead to send them down for the rest of the season.

Red wings the f*** out of those kids & over cook them in the minors before you waste their developmental years like this.

 

[bland]

Grundstrom ain't chopped liver, he has had a good year. He will sure as shit be sat, again, once Athanasiou is back.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Grundstrom ain't chopped liver, he has had a good year. He will sure as shit be sat, again, once Athanasiou is back.

Of course, just like last time. I like Tonka a lot. I just know he's not gonna be here long with antics like this--play three best games in Kings sweater, get benched with "you did nothing wrong," direct f***ing quote.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Like i said at this point just f***ing send them all down.

Iafallo-Kopitar-Kempe
Moore-Danault-Arvidsson
Grundstrom-Andersson-Frk
AA-Lizotte-Brown
Tkachev, Wagner

Anderson-Doughty
Edler-Roy
Maatta-Strand

Let the kids just be the reign and be 'the guys' so they can have some minutes and learn since they're not being trusted to do shit at the nhl level and there, you can have your veteran wet dreams and no one will care. f***, trade the guys under 25 for some plug depth like Nate Thompson and Paul Byron, just go for it. Run the vets careers out with a 'competitive' team, just don't pretend the youth matter until the vets are burned out completely, thanks.

 

[bland]

I wrote a much longer post on this a year ago, but Kopitar was never known as a "light" skater. When he was in his physical prime his skating was far from an issue but as he loses some of the youthful energy and enthusiasm with age, it's understandable that certain aspects of his game are going to decline. His defensive ability ie reactivity away from puck, ability to track his man, quick tempo changes and movement adjusments are all going to become increasingly challenging for him to perform. His puck skills, hockey IQ and reach aren't going to go anywhere though, which is why he can still put up points on board: he's clever, skilled and big. Even then, the trademark puck possession game will decline as his feet get heavier and less reactive. I'm not sure how many people remember Kopitar being basically a Kempe-esque gaurantee to enter the zone or circle the offensive zone with people strapped on his back and never lose possession? Kempe is that guy now (although better in pure mobility, he lacks the rest of peak Kopitar's game).

It would be a smart thing to start managing Kopitar's usage so that his remaining strengths are amplified and his age-related weaknesses minimized. This isn't anything new in the last 10-15 years in pro-sports, aging superstars tend to work out adaptations in how they play and how they are used to maximize their natural talent at an age where physical limitations are becoming a reality for them.

We saw this unfold twice with Anze tonight on both Rags goals. First one he was caught completely flat-footed and reaching, he got walked which forced Maatta out and left Kreider alone, and he was beat to the front by Goodrow who essentially posted him up. Neither goal is his "fault", very, very few goals are ever to "blame" on any single player, but those were plays prime Kopitar makes easily.

You don't lose it all at once, it happens in increments and we are seeing a less defensively sound Kopitar now. No shame in that on him, but he must be managed more effectively.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

We saw this unfold twice with Anze tonight on both Rags goals. First one he was caught completely flat-footed and reaching, he got walked which forced Maatta out and left Kreider alone, and he was beat to the front by Goodrow who essentially posted him up. Neither goal is his "fault", very, very few goals are ever to "blame" on any single player, but those were plays prime Kopitar makes easily.

You don't lose it all at once, it happens in increments and we are seeing a less defensively sound Kopitar now. No shame in that on him, but he must be managed more effectively.

Your take on the first goal is outstandingly.....ignorant....Maata took a shit angle, and Roy was covering Quick.....both D do their job better, that's a non starter, Kopitar forced Fox to the outside, but yea, he was caught flat footed because he was chasing Panarin who made a nice pass to Fox....who was going the other way...I mean f*** man, I get it, you want Byfield playing over Kopitar, but actually watch the play.

Second goal, tell me, did you want Kopitar in front of Goodrow? Goodrow definitely got their first....

As a general note, it's amazing how all these teams the Kings play are shit....can't play hockey, can't complete plays etc.....because f***, it's never a nice play made by the opposition....

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Your take on the first goal is outstandingly.....ignorant....Maata took a shit angle, and Roy was covering Quick.....both D do their job better, that's a non starter, Kopitar forced Fox to the outside, but yea, he was caught flat footed because he was chasing Panarin who made a nice pass to Fox....who was going the other way...I mean f*** man, I get it, you want Byfield playing over Kopitar, but actually watch the play.

Second goal, tell me, did you want Kopitar in front of Goodrow? Goodrow definitely got their first....

As a general note, it's amazing how all these teams the Kings play are shit....can't play hockey, can't complete plays etc.....because f***, it's never a nice play made by the opposition....

Hockey is a game of mistakes, almost everything is a result of a nice play forcing a breakdown. Of course we're playing some good and great teams especially lately. The idea is to minimize those mistakes. Kopitar is making a LOT of them. You can defend the ones we're watching and you can almost always share responsibility (most breakdowns aren't just one dude duffing it like Mikey getting juked out of his jock),but when one guy is involved ina disproportionate number of them relative to his team, and that's backed up by both the eye test AND the stats, it's fair to wonder what's cooking a guy.

 

[bland]

Your take on the first goal is outstandingly.....ignorant....Maata took a shit angle, and Roy was covering Quick.....both D do their job better, that's a non starter, Kopitar forced Fox to the outside, but yea, he was caught flat footed because he was chasing Panarin who made a nice pass to Fox....who was going the other way...I mean f*** man, I get it, you want Byfield playing over Kopitar, but actually watch the play.

Second goal, tell me, did you want Kopitar in front of Goodrow? Goodrow definitely got their first....

As a general note, it's amazing how all these teams the Kings play are shit....can't play hockey, can't complete plays etc.....because f***, it's never a nice play made by the opposition....

Who ties your shoes for you?

 

[Herby]

At this point, if you’re going to play Turcotte & Byfield along boat anchors for 10 minutes a night, you’d be money ahead to send them down for the rest of the season.

Red wings the f*** out of those kids & over cook them in the minors before you waste their developmental years like this.

Who have the Red Wings overcooked in the minors, either in the present or historically?

Seider is 20 and has jumped immediately into the NHL playing at an all-star level. If not for Covid he probably would have been in the NHL last year. Raymond is 19 and is also immediately in the NHL from Europe playing at an all-star level. Dylan Larkin was in the NHL at 19 after 1 dominating season in the NCAA and was also an all-star as a rookie.

Yzerman, Lidstrom, Fedorov, Datsyuk and Zetterberg never played a game in the minors.

Just curious who you are referencing?

 

[bland]

Who have the Red Wings overcooked in the minors, either in the present or historically?

Seider is 20 and has jumped immediately into the NHL playing at an all-star level. If not for Covid he probably would have been in the NHL last year. Raymond is 19 and is also immediately in the NHL from Europe playing at an all-star level. Dylan Larkin was in the NHL at 19 after 1 dominating season in the NCAA and was also an all-star as a rookie.

Yzerman, Lidstrom, Fedorov, Datsyuk and Zetterberg never played a game in the minors.

Just curious who you are referencing?

Pretty sure that's an old school reference to the way Detroit famously handled their kids in their Cup era.

Funny thing is that their current model is the one LA should be following.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

In 40 seconds Kaliyev-Kempe-Byfield generated more xGF than half the roster did all night

 

[Herby]

Pretty sure that's an old school reference to the way Detroit famously handled their kids in their Cup era.

Funny thing is that their current model is the one LA should be following.

Old school reference or current reference, it's not really factually correct in any way though. It's actually the opposite, Detroits best players for the last 30 years have seen very little time in the minor leagues.

As far as doing what Detroit is doing this season, well no arguments from me, go back and check the receipts this summer, my first preference was to play the kids a lot and suck again to add another piece. Detroit while basically eliminated from the playoffs half way through has actually overachieved a bit (I doubt even Yzerman thought Seider and Raymond would be this good or Larkin and Bertuzzi would be point-per-game guys). That was a roster that looked like it was going to be a lock to pick top 5. Even with all that, their goal-differential is poor and they will sell at the deadline and be picking in the top 8, able to add another key piece while breaking in their 2 young stars in a low pressure situation.

The Kings instead tried once again to squeeze out a wildcard spot from their championship core from a decade ago. Detroit could have traded for Viktor Arvidsson and signed Alex Edler and Philip Danault, they had more space than LA, but they stuck with a more long-term vision where LA again looked short term at the expense of low pressure ice-time for its young players. Not trying to rag on Danault, he has been really good for the Kings but the reality is he takes a spot from a young player and isn't going to move the needle to make this team a playoff threat. Not a bad player and not a bad short term signing, but if the goal is to win cups I'd have rather not brought in any of those guys and been a bottom 5 team with a ton of ice time for all the young kids. They needed another impact young player in the system that a top pick would have provided and they needed icetime for the youth, we get none of that this season and in exchange we may be able to finish 3rd in the division.

I just don't get why so many who championed those moves and the direction Blake went this summer are now angry about ice-time for young players. The message was clearly sent by Blake they were putting the interests of 11,8,32,23 and the new vets they brought in above letting their youth learn on the job. I am shocked that people are not grasping this, Blake isn't tricking anyone, his plan was clearly laid out over the summer and to be honest, as much as I hate it and disagree with it, it is working. The team is in the playoff hunt, even though they have zero chance to contend.

 

[kingsfan]

Pretty sure that's an old school reference to the way Detroit famously handled their kids in their Cup era.

Funny thing is that their current model is the one LA should be following.

The old school reference applies mainly to middle-six, middle pairing defensemen and goalies, like Jonathan Ericsson, Jimmy Howard, and Tomas Kopecky, but it still all boils down to promoting them when they were ready and not rushing them to the pros. An additional factor is there was no salary cap, so the need to get cheap skill into the line up wasn't as pressing when you could just dump money into UFAs without worrying about staying within a ceiling.

 

[kilowatt]

I'm gonna just keep posting these:

Those purple jerseys are the best jerseys we've ever had.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

FWIW re: red wings there was a thread on it in i think the prospects forum and they brought up a guy like Nyquist.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Those purple jerseys are the best jerseys we've ever had.

Amen to that

 

[bland]

Old school reference or current reference, it's not really factually correct in any way though. It's actually the opposite, Detroits best players for the last 30 years have seen very little time in the minor leagues.

As far as doing what Detroit is doing this season, well no arguments from me, go back and check the receipts this summer, my first preference was to play the kids a lot and suck again to add another piece. Detroit while basically eliminated from the playoffs half way through has actually overachieved a bit (I doubt even Yzerman thought Seider and Raymond would be this good or Larkin and Bertuzzi would be point-per-game guys). That was a roster that looked like it was going to be a lock to pick top 5. Even with all that, their goal-differential is poor and they will sell at the deadline and be picking in the top 8, able to add another key piece while breaking in their 2 young stars in a low pressure situation.

The Kings instead tried once again to squeeze out a wildcard spot from their championship core from a decade ago. Detroit could have traded for Viktor Arvidsson and Alex Edler and signed Philip Danault, they had more space than LA, but they stuck with a more long-term vision where LA again looked short term at the expense of low pressure ice-time for its young players. Not trying to rag on Danault, he has been really good for the Kings but the reality is he takes a spot from a young player and isn't going to move the needle to make this team a playoff threat. Not a bad player and not a bad short term signing, but if the goal is to win cups I'd have rather not brought in any of those guys and been a bottom 5 team with a ton of ice time for all the young kids. They needed another impact young player in the system that a top pick would have provided and they needed icetime for the youth, we get none of that this season and in exchange we may be able to finish 3rd in the division.

I just don't get why so many who championed those moves and the direction Blake went this summer are now angry about ice-time for young players. The message was clearly sent by Blake they were putting the interests of 11,8,32,23 and the new vets they brought in above letting their youth learn on the job. I am shocked that people are not grasping this, Blake isn't tricking anyone, his plan was clearly laid out over the summer and to be honest, as much as I hate it and disagree with it, it is working. The team is in the playoff hunt, even though they have zero chance to contend.

The whole Detroit/kids thing has been a trope for 25 years, hard to find fault with using it as such even if it isn't true.

And I agree with you entirely. From an organizational standpoint, the best move was to embrace the rebuild. That is and was the best chance at success.

If your management team is going to be so short-sighted as to try and accomplish two opposite goals at the same time, I am sure as hell happier going after Danault then someone else.

 

[kilowatt]

At this point, given how the coaching staff is rolling some of our prospects into the league, I have to imagine that there's a development plan in place on purpose and they're not waivering from it. The goal really seems to be "let's put these kids in really difficult situations with really limited minutes" so they can grow some of the more difficult parts of their game. I just can't fathom that they see how well Byfield is playing and say "nope, bench him".

So that's my new outlook here. There's a plan, they're executing it regardless of prospect pedigree, and they really want our young guys to get accustomed to the tough minutes during less-important times of the game so that when they eventually take the next step, it won't be a shell shock.

Because if not, then this team is run by absolute clowns who might just ruin the best prospect pool the team's ever had. And I really hope that's not the case.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The whole Detroit/kids thing has been a trope for 25 years, hard to find fault with using it as such even if it isn't true.

And I agree with you entirely. From an organizational standpoint, the best move was to embrace the rebuild. That is and was the best chance at success.

If your management team is going to be so short-sighted as to try and accomplish two opposite goals at the same time, I am sure as hell happier going after Danault then someone else.

I think the thing with Detroit is that they don't play stupid games with their prospects. If a guy is ready--Seider, Raymond--they play them in the role they want them to learn. There's no misguided bullshit about Lucas grinding it out on the 4th line out of position--they go for it. Whereas guys that need more time, they take all the time they need (as noted most often middle lineup players).

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

At this point, given how the coaching staff is rolling some of our prospects into the league, I have to imagine that there's a development plan in place on purpose and they're not waivering from it. The goal really seems to be "let's put these kids in really difficult situations with really limited minutes" so they can grow some of the more difficult parts of their game. I just can't fathom that they see how well Byfield is playing and say "nope, bench him".

So that's my new outlook here. There's a plan, they're executing it regardless of prospect pedigree, and they really want our young guys to get accustomed to the tough minutes during less-important times of the game so that when they eventually take the next step, it won't be a shell shock.

Because if not, then this team is run by absolute clowns who might just ruin the best prospect pool the team's ever had. And I really hope that's not the case.

I'm hoping and praying you're right about it because I want to believe these guys are all 100x smarter than me. What you're saying makes the most sense and of course there are things we are not privy to.

But the pessimist in me watches the special teams flail helplessly and Kopitar bent over halfway through every game and then I'm not so sure.

This year the pessimist in me is out in force, this is by far the most frustrated I've been as a Kings fan. Not to be confused with the hopelessness of the Willie D years or the futility of the pre-cup years. This shit is maddening in a different way.

 

[ru4reals]

Those purple jerseys are the best jerseys we've ever had.

Those look absolutely amazing and would be tremendous if we went with these for the next generation of kids. But you know Luc, he would combine the horrendous Chevy logo with these pathetic homeplates we have now and redesign it to look like Sh*T for the next 20 years.

 

[bland]

At this point, given how the coaching staff is rolling some of our prospects into the league, I have to imagine that there's a development plan in place on purpose and they're not waivering from it. The goal really seems to be "let's put these kids in really difficult situations with really limited minutes" so they can grow some of the more difficult parts of their game. I just can't fathom that they see how well Byfield is playing and say "nope, bench him".

So that's my new outlook here. There's a plan, they're executing it regardless of prospect pedigree, and they really want our young guys to get accustomed to the tough minutes during less-important times of the game so that when they eventually take the next step, it won't be a shell shock.

Because if not, then this team is run by absolute clowns who might just ruin the best prospect pool the team's ever had. And I really hope that's not the case.

I think we use a lot of derogatory terms to vent frustration, but that's clearly their plan. The issue is if its a good plan and is it delaying the future to stretch out the present for the core.

I mean, is it more beneficial to the end goal of competing for Cups to get 50 games under Turcotte and Vilardi's belts now than it is to chase a playoff spot this year?

Are you putting too much emphasis on the desires of fading heroes when they have already failed to win over the past 7 seasons? If so, are they doing so because they cannot see its fruitless, or do they believe that there is some sort of backdoor benefit to just getting in?

 

[Nasti]

The stupid “just get in” mentality needs to go. It’s been here since Andy Murray. The Kings winning their cups despite forgettable regular seasons (especially 2012) were anomalies.