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Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

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FSL KINGS said:
Strudel just resigned at 8. Maybe we should slow walk our prospects until the team is ready to make a push so we don't destroy the teams cap?
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Why is locking up your best young players seen as a bad thing on this forum?

I seem to remember a certain team that locked up it's 2 best young players to long-term deals following their ELC's that were a larger percentage of the cap than what Ottawa is paying now, and that team ended up ok winning 2 championships and didn't "destroy it's cap"
 
Herby said:
Axl,

Unlike you, I can adjust my expectations and realities based on what happens in the time after the pick is made. You choose to completely ignore what has happened at Wisconsin and as a professional and instead choose to cling to evaluations made 4 years ago while playing in the USHL.

I thought Reggie Bush was going to be a game-changing player in the NFL, so did all the scouts and the media. He very clearly wasn't and we were able to call it a poor pick even if it went against what we thought on draft night.

The pick was a disaster as soon as it became apparent that Turcotte was not going to be an impact player at the NHL level like most of us thought based on his age 17 season. For the millionth time that doesn't mean the player himself is a bust, but when you have a Top 5 pick and the player doesn't turn out to be an impact player it is safe to call the pick a failure.

This isn't some kind of gotcha game Axel, all of us have been wrong on picks before.
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Dude...you are basically saying the Kings whiffed on their pick:

"The Kings had a chance to draft multiple players who have already proven to be difference makers in the league and who project to be legit stars to superstars, something you should expect to be shooting for with a #5OA pick."

You are blaming the organization for the results or lack of from this player. It's not a disaster pick, it was a great f***ing pick that hasn't panned out.....YET.
 
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Axl Rhoadz said:
Dude...you are basically saying the Kings whiffed on their pick:

"The Kings had a chance to draft multiple players who have already proven to be difference makers in the league and who project to be legit stars to superstars, something you should expect to be shooting for with a #5OA pick."

You are blaming the organization for the results or lack of from this player. It's not a disaster pick, it was a great f***ing pick that hasn't panned out.....YET.
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They did whiff on the pick, 4 years later many of the players taken around him, including the one the Kings apparently debated between taking are difference making players in the league. You won't even admit what type of player you think he will be, instead just clinging to your debunked "barely old enough to buy a beer" nonsense. But yeah, I'm sure Turcotte will live up to the #5OA pick, despite nothing since draft night giving any indication that will be the case.

You are one of those people who don't believe in bad picks, that is fine. You don't think Ryan Leaf, Adam Morrison and Nolan Patrick are bad picks, because they went where they were projected. But all those picks set their teams back, drafts are results oriented. Ofcourse had the Kings taken the right player you wouldn't be saying "All they did was take the highest ranked player" you would be giving Blake 100% of the credit. But when it goes bad it's "All they did was take the highest ranked guy"
 
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Axl Rhoadz said:
Please excuse me as I'm slow and uneducated...but I'm struggling with this term 'disaster pick'. Did you consider Turcotte this on the day he was drafted? I'm assuming no....in fact, this is what YOU had to say about the pick:

"As for Turcotte, love the pick, he looks like a championship caliber 2C"

Much like the rest of the NHL experts out in the world, you most likely had him slotted in the top 5...no? If not, maybe you are an in idiot as well? You are probably saying something like we should have picked Zegras, but then where do you think Zegras should have been picked given that he fell to #8? So does that mean that potentially 6-7 other teams had 'disaster picks' as well?

Take a look at this thread...lots of excitement all around...nobody saying it was a disaster or that we should of picked Zegras, lol. I love these discussion...so f***ing stupid.

Prospect Info: - 5th Overall Pick, Alex Turcotte, C, USNTDP UPDATED: Signs 3 Year ELC 3/11/20

Our Look Alex Turcotte Scouting Report: 2019 NHL Draft #5 - Last Word on Hockey
forums.hfboards.com forums.hfboards.com
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Herby became immediately concerned about Turcotte following his Freshman season at UW due to some live viewings and because he follows college hockey: specifically the conference that UW plays in.

He's been down on Turcotte longer than anyone on this board, although I think @Frolov 6'3 was a bit dubious of the pick based on the fact there was no way all of these USNTDP first rounders were going to hit.

The reality of Turcotte is he hasn't played much hockey since his draft year and he apparently hasn't even skated since the concussion in, what, April? Forget worrying about his numbers for next season: the worry is when--or if--he can even play.

I haven't written him off; however, I take a conservative approach to looking at the future roster of the Kings by not including him on it.
 
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Herby said:
You won't even admit what type of player you think he will be, instead just clinging to your debunked "barely old enough to buy a beer" nonsense.
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WTF are you talking about, I specifically said yesterday that he reminded me of Deadmarsh and I got roasted for it. Do you want me to start over and say I think he will be like Toews?
Herby said:
You are one of those people who don't believe in bad picks, that is fine. You don't think Ryan Leaf, Adam Morrison and Nolan Patrick are bad picks, because they went where they were projected. But all those picks set their teams back, drafts are results oriented. Ofcourse had the Kings taken the right player you wouldn't be saying "All they did was take the highest ranked player" you would be giving Blake 100% of the credit. But when it goes bad it's "All they did was take the highest ranked guy"
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I'm glad you have me all figured out, but not true as usual. Hickey was a bad pick, I remember that. My only point with this is that the draft is a crap shoot....Look at Alex Lafrienierre, that guy was supposed to be like the next Sidney Crosby, have you seen that? So, is it disaster pick? You are basically implying these scouts and the org should have crystal f***ing balls to know exactly how each 18-year old kid is going to turn out in the next 3-5 years. Sorry bud, no team has that.
 
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Calling it a "disaster pick" is overly dramatic. First off, it's too early to tell. But even if the current trend continues, I still wouldn't call it that at all.

A disaster pick would be reaching on a pick of someone who is a bust (or JAG), when it was obvious you should have picked this other guy who everyone knew was going to be a HOF / star. That was not the case at all. Calling it as such is total Monday morning QBing. As much as i wanted Zegras as the Kings pick going into that draft, it was not based on any set knowledge of what he'd become. Nor most other GMs considering he was passed over by an additional 5 teams/GMs after the Kings (not to mention those in front of the kings).

Uninspiring -- sure maybe so
Boring/conservative -- sure maybe so
Disaster -- come on dude smh
 
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bland said:
This board sucks now.
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Why?

You should come back, you add a lot to the discussions. This place is better with you around.

BigKing said:
Herby became immediately concerned about Turcotte following his Freshman season at UW due to some live viewings and because he follows college hockey: specifically the conference that UW plays in.

He's been down on Turcotte longer than anyone on this board, although I think @Frolov 6'3 was a bit dubious of the pick based on the fact there was no way all of these USNTDP first rounders were going to hit.
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And was called a "hater" and a "stat watcher" and told that "the offensive numbers will come" (still waiting 3 years later for that). I drove 90 minutes each way 6 times that fall/winter because I was a hater who had already formed an opinion, even though as Axel pointed out for me, I was not against the pick at the time. But some time between liking the pick and seeing him play in person I became a biased hater for stating an unpopular opinion that most here now agree with.

But apparently no-ones opinion is allowed to evolve based on newer and more up to date viewings against more relevant competition, you have to have a firm opinion and it can never change, no matter what.

And @Frolov 6'3 was right, it was a probability that at least one of those players was a product of their teammates. Many thought it was Caufield who was a product of Hughes, but based on the 3 years since it's pretty apparent who's USHL season was inflated.
 
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Herby said:
Why?

You should come back, you add a lot to the discussions. This place is better with you around.



And was called a "hater" and a "stat watcher" and told that "the offensive numbers will come" (still waiting 3 years later for that). I drove 90 minutes each way 6 times that fall/winter because I was a hater who had already formed an opinion, even though as Axel pointed out for me, I was not against the pick at the time. But some time between liking the pick and seeing him play in person I became a biased hater for stating an unpopular opinion that most here now agree with.

But apparently no-ones opinion is allowed to evolve based on newer and more up to date viewings against more relevant competition, you have to have a firm opinion and it can never change, no matter what.

And @Frolov 6'3 was right, it was a probability that at least one of those players was a product of their teammates. Many thought it was Caufield who was a product of Hughes, but based on the 3 years since it's pretty apparent who's USHL season was inflated.
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Who cares what you learned after the fact....you thought it was a great pick when it happened just like most of us. And guess what, I'm sure the Kings org did as well. It would have been way cooler if you predicted the lack of production on draft day, right? I mean, that's what the org should have been able to do, right? Disaster pick.
 
Herby said:
Vilardi I don’t have a problem calling a bust. But he is 2 years older than Turcotte and has a fatal flaw that Turcotte doesn’t have, those are two big differences. If Turcotte is an AHL/NHL tweener in 2 years he can be called a bust too, but right now he is a long way from that.

And calling a pick a whiff does not make the player a bust, just the pick a disaster. The Kings had a chance to draft multiple players who have already proven to be difference makers in the league and who project to be legit stars to superstars, something you should expect to be shooting for with a #5OA pick. Not a middle six energy player.

I have been wrong about many things on this forum (Jonathan Quick for one), but what have I said about Turcotte the last 2-3 years hasn't been correct, whether it was evaluation from in-person observations or with development decisions? As I've said a million times on this forum he will be a fine middle-six forward who will add value to a team, much like an Andrew Copp, but if any NHL team used a top-5 pick on Andrew Copp it would be a disaster pick too, but it doesn't mean the player is a bust. I'm amazed that someone as knowledgeable as you can't grasp that those two things can both be true.

Do you watch football? Is Jared Goff a bust, or is he an NFL starting QB who was just drafted 20 picks to early?

Think of Turcotte the same way, he will be a solid middle-six NHL player who was drafted 20 picks to early.
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Damn, Herby is coming for the Rams fans AND Kings fans now! :laugh:

Come on dude let us breathe!
 
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kingsfan28 said:
It's summer, we got to talk about something. No different than any other summer threads of the past.
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No, it isn't.

We have a couple of guys here that make it completely impossible to have a remotely interesting conversation with the group. Even if you block them, you see page after page of responses to those posts that devolve down to the lowest level of interaction. It just isn't fun. The last 75 or so pages of this thread could be cut and it would just start all over again with the same dumb nonsense.
 
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Herby said:
Vilardi I don’t have a problem calling a bust. But he is 2 years older than Turcotte and has a fatal flaw that Turcotte doesn’t have, those are two big differences. If Turcotte is an AHL/NHL tweener in 2 years he can be called a bust too, but right now he is a long way from that.

And calling a pick a whiff does not make the player a bust, just the pick a disaster. The Kings had a chance to draft multiple players who have already proven to be difference makers in the league and who project to be legit stars to superstars, something you should expect to be shooting for with a #5OA pick. Not a middle six energy player.

I have been wrong about many things on this forum (Jonathan Quick for one), but what have I said about Turcotte the last 2-3 years hasn't been correct, whether it was evaluation from in-person observations or with development decisions? As I've said a million times on this forum he will be a fine middle-six forward who will add value to a team, much like an Andrew Copp, but if any NHL team used a top-5 pick on Andrew Copp it would be a disaster pick too, but it doesn't mean the player is a bust. I'm amazed that someone as knowledgeable as you can't grasp that those two things can both be true.

Do you watch football? Is Jared Goff a bust, or is he an NFL starting QB who was just drafted 20 picks to early?

Think of Turcotte the same way, he will be a solid middle-six NHL player who was drafted 20 picks to early.
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I just don't torture myself over the what if's of the draft. It's an abyss every team goes through. Turcotte is a Copp level player, ok, they have that guy then, and they simply have to find whatever else they need some other way. If they don't find it, they won't win, and I can relax watching an at best 2nd rd team.
 
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Pfft, I mean, I have been watching the back and forth for weeks but it is a message board and we literally have nothing else to talk about other than doomsday prospect prophecies until training camp which can't come soon enough...

In the end, nothing we say either way carries much weight or merit until we have more pieces of the puzzle. It is meaningless to speculate on the success or failure of some of these kids 21 or younger and whether drafts were successful or not within the same timeframe.

Literally anything can happen this upcoming season and the odds are ever in your favor to be a doomsayer. It's like saying X team won't win the Stanley Cup. Even if you said that about the Avs, the odds are in your favor to say "see, I told you so" come the 2023 Stanley Cup Finals. The odds a player won't be a star are far greater than them becoming one. Arguing over the possible ceiling of a prospect based on less than two seasons of Covid infections and interruptions is an impossible projection. If our scouts and front office don't know then I doubt many around here would.

Not that we would know better in a couple of months mind you, but at least wait until their skates are on the ice and we see them play again before getting too far into the who was wrong about X of it all. For all we know Turcotte is lights out in the preseason, and then everyone in his corner will be taunting his naysayers. Then he falls on his face the first 10 games of the season and gets sent down, and then all his naysayers will be declaring him a bust. Then he tears it up in the AHL and comes back and becomes a superstar and never looks back :sarcasm:

Might as well sit back and enjoy the ride while we see what this highly touted farm system is able to produce... It didn't earn such praise for nothing.
 
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Axl Rhoadz said:
Haven't seen this mentioned...Yanetti was interviewed on most recent KOTP...there was talk about the '12 team reunion this past month and discussing Lombardi. He said he had heard the book is done.
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I've actually been meaning to listen to that one but it's like two f***ing hours...worth it?

I mean I'm probably going to anyway because Yanetti talking is like hanging at the bar with a buddy before it gets crazy.
 
Telos said:
Might as well sit back and enjoy the ride while we see what this highly touted farm system is able to produce... It didn't earn such praise for nothing.
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The highly touted players will either not be on the team or playing grinder roles in the bottom six. The Kings will be good this year but if you are wanting to watch prospects produce I think you will be disappointed. If Arvidsson misses the beginning of the season maybe a prospect will get on that second line. But if I had to bet on it Id say Iafallo or Grundstrom get first dibs.
Spence, Kupari, Turcotte, Vilardi, Anderson, JAD, Fagemo will probably not have a spot until injuries.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
I've actually been meaning to listen to that one but it's like two f***ing hours...worth it?

I mean I'm probably going to anyway because Yanetti talking is like hanging at the bar with a buddy before it gets crazy.
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Just skip the first 20 min where Hoven drones on and on about his trip to Edmonton and using an electric scooter.

Haven't finished all of it, they are going through every draft pick from this past draft. So if you are into that kind of thing...and like I mentioned above, they talked about the '12 reunion event which had some pretty cool stuff.

There was a mention of some big kid, 6'8...Jack Sparkes? Drafted in like the 6th round....Johnny Utah should like that.
 
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