Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[YAYSAY]

Teams can get by in the regular season with a non-physical lineup but the playoffs are all about size and physicality. And not the goon-ish type but physicality combined with talent. This seems especially true on defense. Just watching the playoffs the past couple of years makes that very obvious.

100%. The Avs weren't doing huge open ice checks every five seconds, but they're all big and know how to use their size to make themselves hard to play against.

 

[Herby]

Haven't seen this mentioned...Yanetti was interviewed on most recent KOTP...there was talk about the '12 team reunion this past month and discussing Lombardi. He said he had heard the book is done.

It’s unfortunate that there is no true media presence that could have done something like this sooner. But better late than never.

The chapter(s) about what happened with Richards will be worth the cost of the book. The failed hockey decision to not buy him out will I’m sure be discussed and the justification will be the same ones many here come up with. To much faith in the player, not wanting to rattle the room, keeping the band together, AEG not wanting to cut the big lump sum. I can understand those reasons for the hockey decision. I can still to this day find no justification for what DL attempted to do to Mike Richards financially to make up for his poor decision to not buy him out the year before. People talk about Hossa and Pronger and what-not but what DL tried to do went beyond any of that, I think sometimes it gets lost in all the debates just how much money DL attempted to deny MR. No other player on the roster would have been subjected to that, I thought Richards was completely useless his final 2 years here, but he didn’t deserve what happened to him, he made a mistake but what the Kings tried to do was shameful. It was a black eye on the organization and Lombardi himself and I’m curious to see how it’s addressed in this book.

Also, the 2014 playoff run, truly one of the craziest runs in league history. Down 0-3 in round 1, down late in Game 1 of round 2, down 3-2 in round 2 after losing 3 in a row, winning twice in Chicago while trailing by multiple goals including Game 7. Has any team in league history had two consecutive 3 game losing streaks and still won a SC? 2012 was just total dominance, no one player or “what-if” game would change that, 2014 was literally the exact opposite. So many things could have prevented that from happening and it’s fascinating to think about. Curious to see what DL has to say about that run.

 

[Sausages]

No, it isn't.

We have a couple of guys here that make it completely impossible to have a remotely interesting conversation with the group. Even if you block them, you see page after page of responses to those posts that devolve down to the lowest level of interaction. It just isn't fun. The last 75 or so pages of this thread could be cut and it would just start all over again with the same dumb nonsense.

I think I speak for all HF Board lurkers here in thanking you profusely for this post.

Spot on!

 

[King'sPawn]

No, it isn't.

We have a couple of guys here that make it completely impossible to have a remotely interesting conversation with the group. Even if you block them, you see page after page of responses to those posts that devolve down to the lowest level of interaction. It just isn't fun. The last 75 or so pages of this thread could be cut and it would just start all over again with the same dumb nonsense.

You're missing out on the game I like to play; guess the poster. It's where you read the responses to people you're ignoring and you guess who it is.

You need a good-sized list to make it interesting though.

Why?

You should come back, you add a lot to the discussions. This place is better with you around.



And was called a "hater" and a "stat watcher" and told that "the offensive numbers will come" (still waiting 3 years later for that). I drove 90 minutes each way 6 times that fall/winter because I was a hater who had already formed an opinion, even though as Axel pointed out for me, I was not against the pick at the time. But some time between liking the pick and seeing him play in person I became a biased hater for stating an unpopular opinion that most here now agree with.

But apparently no-ones opinion is allowed to evolve based on newer and more up to date viewings against more relevant competition, you have to have a firm opinion and it can never change, no matter what.

And @Frolov 6'3 was right, it was a probability that at least one of those players was a product of their teammates. Many thought it was Caufield who was a product of Hughes, but based on the 3 years since it's pretty apparent who's USHL season was inflated.

For what it's worth, I apologize for calling you a stat watcher - in my defense, I didn't realize you were watching the games. I was responding to you citing his stats, and I didn't understand (or realize) you were watching him to. I know we got in some heated discussions, though I think most of your arguments were with RJ.

Anyway, yeah. Expectations evolve as we get more data, whether it's observed personally or gathered from external sources. It's because, as prospects perform at a certain level at a certain age, there is a reasonable expectation of progress.

Of course, progression isn't linear. But so far, there is no model which can effectively and accurately predict future performances. And many variables factor in:
- emotional/mental development
- physical development
- injuries
- life-altering events we don't know
- cohesion with teammates
- opportunity/deployment
- development regimen from an organization
- instruction from coaches

Turcotte and Vilardi have had a variety of issues factor into where they are today. It's perfectly normal to adjust expectations.

It is also why I am hesitant to write off players like Turcotte and Vilardi. Sometimes, a light turns on and stars align, and things just start working out and they start turning into the player we hope they become.

I'm still going to have criticism towards a player or org who makes that path more difficult.

I do think it's most wise to wait until a player is waiver eligible to start hammering down on an assessment, simply because they are that age where physical development won't improve too much more with age, deployment and opportunity will go down, and you're more likely to have variety of teammates, your body will be taking more beatings, etc.

Right now, Turcotte's developmental arc has been trending downwards. But there's still time for things to turn around.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It’s unfortunate that there is no true media presence that could have done something like this sooner. But better late than never.

The chapter(s) about what happened with Richards will be worth the cost of the book. The failed hockey decision to not buy him out will I’m sure be discussed and the justification will be the same ones many here come up with. To much faith in the player, not wanting to rattle the room, keeping the band together, AEG not wanting to cut the big lump sum. I can understand those reasons for the hockey decision. I can still to this day find no justification for what DL attempted to do to Mike Richards financially to make up for his poor decision to not buy him out the year before. People talk about Hossa and Pronger and what-not but what DL tried to do went beyond any of that, I think sometimes it gets lost in all the debates just how much money DL attempted to deny MR. No other player on the roster would have been subjected to that, I thought Richards was completely useless his final 2 years here, but he didn’t deserve what happened to him, he made a mistake but what the Kings tried to do was shameful. It was a black eye on the organization and Lombardi himself and I’m curious to see how it’s addressed in this book.

Also, the 2014 playoff run, truly one of the craziest runs in league history. Down 0-3 in round 1, down late in Game 1 of round 2, down 3-2 in round 2 after losing 3 in a row, winning twice in Chicago while trailing by multiple goals including Game 7. Has any team in league history had two consecutive 3 game losing streaks and still won a SC? 2012 was just total dominance, no one player or “what-if” game would change that, 2014 was literally the exact opposite. So many things could have prevented that from happening and it’s fascinating to think about. Curious to see what DL has to say about that run.

Especially for a guy who is by all accounts inside and out loyal to a fault.

Maybe just raw desperation. Not that it's justified, but seems like the simplest answer. But I agree gonna be a hell of a read.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You're missing out on the game I like to play; guess the poster. It's where you read the responses to people you're ignoring and you guess who it is.

You need a good-sized list to make it interesting though.


For what it's worth, I apologize for calling you a stat watcher - in my defense, I didn't realize you were watching the games. I was responding to you citing his stats, and I didn't understand (or realize) you were watching him to. I know we got in some heated discussions, though I think most of your arguments were with RJ.

Anyway, yeah. Expectations evolve as we get more data, whether it's observed personally or gathered from external sources. It's because, as prospects perform at a certain level at a certain age, there is a reasonable expectation of progress.

Of course, progression isn't linear. But so far, there is no model which can effectively and accurately predict future performances. And many variables factor in:
- emotional/mental development
- physical development
- injuries
- life-altering events we don't know
- cohesion with teammates
- opportunity/deployment
- development regimen from an organization
- instruction from coaches

Turcotte and Vilardi have had a variety of issues factor into where they are today. It's perfectly normal to adjust expectations.

It is also why I am hesitant to write off players like Turcotte and Vilardi. Sometimes, a light turns on and stars align, and things just start working out and they start turning into the player we hope they become.

I'm still going to have criticism towards a player or org who makes that path more difficult.

I do think it's most wise to wait until a player is waiver eligible to start hammering down on an assessment, simply because they are that age where physical development won't improve too much more with age, deployment and opportunity will go down, and you're more likely to have variety of teammates, your body will be taking more beatings, etc.

Right now, Turcotte's developmental arc has been trending downwards. But there's still time for things to turn around.

Most of Herby and I's disagreements are based on 1. duration before 'showing up' and 2. Turcotte's ultimate ceiling. It's funny how much we agree on practically everything else surrounding the prospects given we've spent I don't know how many words teeing off on each other's opinions.

 

[Piston]

The guy I'm most excited to see is Kupari. He has a unique blend of size and speed, and sometimes last season showed he was fearless going to the net. We saw him on the PK at the end of the season, and I hope he has a much larger role this season, perhaps winning Arvidsons spot while the latter heals. I thk Rasmus has a chance to outplay his draft position, but what do I know, I'm just a fan, not an expert.

 

[Sol]

The guy I'm most excited to see is Kupari. He has a unique blend of size and speed, and sometimes last season showed he was fearless going to the net. We saw him on the PK at the end of the season, and I hope he has a much larger role this season, perhaps winning Arvidsons spot while the latter heals. I thk Rasmus has a chance to outplay his draft position, but what do I know, I'm just a fan, not an expert.

I agree with this. I think he has a good chance of becoming one of the best players from the prospects because of his speed, size, and skill. I saw him crush a few players and burn by many. He’s definitely the sexy option. I am very optimistic about him. I think he is poised to break out this season

 

[Sol]

It’s unfortunate that there is no true media presence that could have done something like this sooner. But better late than never.

The chapter(s) about what happened with Richards will be worth the cost of the book. The failed hockey decision to not buy him out will I’m sure be discussed and the justification will be the same ones many here come up with. To much faith in the player, not wanting to rattle the room, keeping the band together, AEG not wanting to cut the big lump sum. I can understand those reasons for the hockey decision. I can still to this day find no justification for what DL attempted to do to Mike Richards financially to make up for his poor decision to not buy him out the year before. People talk about Hossa and Pronger and what-not but what DL tried to do went beyond any of that, I think sometimes it gets lost in all the debates just how much money DL attempted to deny MR. No other player on the roster would have been subjected to that, I thought Richards was completely useless his final 2 years here, but he didn’t deserve what happened to him, he made a mistake but what the Kings tried to do was shameful. It was a black eye on the organization and Lombardi himself and I’m curious to see how it’s addressed in this book.

Also, the 2014 playoff run, truly one of the craziest runs in league history. Down 0-3 in round 1, down late in Game 1 of round 2, down 3-2 in round 2 after losing 3 in a row, winning twice in Chicago while trailing by multiple goals including Game 7. Has any team in league history had two consecutive 3 game losing streaks and still won a SC? 2012 was just total dominance, no one player or “what-if” game would change that, 2014 was literally the exact opposite. So many things could have prevented that from happening and it’s fascinating to think about. Curious to see what DL has to say about that run.

Seriously 2012 steam rolled everyone
2014 they were pretty much on the brink of elimination every series. None of it was normal.

 

[bland]

The guy I'm most excited to see is Kupari. He has a unique blend of size and speed, and sometimes last season showed he was fearless going to the net. We saw him on the PK at the end of the season, and I hope he has a much larger role this season, perhaps winning Arvidsons spot while the latter heals. I thk Rasmus has a chance to outplay his draft position, but what do I know, I'm just a fan, not an expert.

The one thing, or the most glaring thing missing from every single one of these prospects is swagger. None of them EVER look confident despite being top picks with history of top of their teams production. Every single forward and most of the defenders since Toffoli look scared to touch the puck sometimes.

Durzi is the one guy who walked in and TOOK his chance, and he was essentially so far down the pecking order that next to nobody would have missed him if he left this summer as an untendered RFA. It took Kempe 4 years to find his groove.

How many kids have the Kings simply drained of their natural and earned confidence to be robotically rebuilt into what they want and not what the Kings want?

Kupari has everything you could want, yet he is another example of having to lose his aggressive confidence just to settle into a lesser safety-first role just to get ice time.

We can talk about wasted picks, injuries, whatever, but nobody here is developed to grab the brass ring away from the old guard.

 

[Herby]

The guy I'm most excited to see is Kupari. He has a unique blend of size and speed, and sometimes last season showed he was fearless going to the net. We saw him on the PK at the end of the season, and I hope he has a much larger role this season, perhaps winning Arvidsons spot while the latter heals. I thk Rasmus has a chance to outplay his draft position, but what do I know, I'm just a fan, not an expert.

I agree, I think he can be a valuable asset in the bottom six. He is big, skates pretty well and has ok skill for a player in that role. But according to Hoven he is likely destined for the AHL because the Kings are afraid of losing older players on waivers who showed less than Kupari did last season.

The Kings should be a meritocracy and be playing the best players and not concerned about losing unproven AAAA players like Lias, JAD and Vilardi to waivers. These guys all had their chances and never did anything with it. It sucks if they now hurt Kupari’s development (again) to try and not lose long-shot players. We will be in the same boat next year with Kupari and waivers too.

It’s just so bizarre to handle youth this way.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I agree with this. I think he has a good chance of becoming one of the best players from the prospects because of his speed, size, and skill. I saw him crush a few players and burn by many. He’s definitely the sexy option. I am very optimistic about him. I think he is poised to break out this season

He was on a murder mission here and I've replayed this so many times for both him and Byfield



You can see the moment Kupari makes him shit his pants

 

[Ollie Weeks]

This board sucks now.

This off-season has had the worst content and discussion in over a decade.

 

[unicornpig]

This off-season has had the worst content and discussion in over a decade.

meh feels like every year... kopitar sucks blah blah. maybe blocking some people has shielded me from the garbage.

 

[Schmooley]

He was on a murder mission here and I've replayed this so many times for both him and Byfield



You can see the moment Kupari makes him shit his pants

We criticize them but it wasnt all completely bad for the prospects. There were definitely glimpses of good play. Its really a matter of owning it. If they go out and play like that every shift theres no way the coach would only give them 3 minutes of icetime a period. They need to take the ownership from the veterans. They have been shown it will not just be given to them because of where they were drafted as teenagers.

 

[Herby]

You're missing out on the game I like to play; guess the poster. It's where you read the responses to people you're ignoring and you guess who it is.

You need a good-sized list to make it interesting though.


For what it's worth, I apologize for calling you a stat watcher - in my defense, I didn't realize you were watching the games. I was responding to you citing his stats, and I didn't understand (or realize) you were watching him to. I know we got in some heated discussions, though I think most of your arguments were with RJ.

Anyway, yeah. Expectations evolve as we get more data, whether it's observed personally or gathered from external sources. It's because, as prospects perform at a certain level at a certain age, there is a reasonable expectation of progress.

Of course, progression isn't linear. But so far, there is no model which can effectively and accurately predict future performances. And many variables factor in:
- emotional/mental development
- physical development
- injuries
- life-altering events we don't know
- cohesion with teammates
- opportunity/deployment
- development regimen from an organization
- instruction from coaches

Turcotte and Vilardi have had a variety of issues factor into where they are today. It's perfectly normal to adjust expectations.

It is also why I am hesitant to write off players like Turcotte and Vilardi. Sometimes, a light turns on and stars align, and things just start working out and they start turning into the player we hope they become.

I'm still going to have criticism towards a player or org who makes that path more difficult.

I do think it's most wise to wait until a player is waiver eligible to start hammering down on an assessment, simply because they are that age where physical development won't improve too much more with age, deployment and opportunity will go down, and you're more likely to have variety of teammates, your body will be taking more beatings, etc.

Right now, Turcotte's developmental arc has been trending downwards. But there's still time for things to turn around.

I was not referencing you, even when I have had my disagreements with you it never has gotten out of line. There are a couple of truly crazy bizarre people on this board. I mean, I got PM's after the 2021 WJC's, with these weird takes about me calling someone a bust and a 7 game sample at a junior tournament somehow proved everything I said wrong. It really does amaze me sometimes how people can just think something into existence. But that gets back to the dishonest takes that you often mention.

I try and not to form to strong opinions on Kings prospects until I can see them at least once in person. With NCAA players I just feel like I have a pretty good idea on how a player is going to project based on how similar players look. I guess some of the bust things are drawn from people who saw my concerns but didn't read deeper. I got to admit, when the Kings took a player #5 OA I expected to see at least what I saw from Dylan Larkin as a freshman, was that to much to ask? I don't think so, but I don't think I ever condemned the player. I have had the same expectation then that I have today. I guess I am maybe even more optimistic than some currently are because I think bad injury luck can be overcome. Even through the injuries he has still maintained a similar level of play that he showed as a freshman. I don't think the injuries have caused him to be any less of a player, his ceiling to me is similar, its just a matter of getting the reps to reach that. I think by the end of the season he could even be in that role, especially if others get injured or falter.

As far as stat watching, I think it's kind of an unfair thing people often say, because when it is going bad (Turcotte D+1) and it is brought up you are accused of stat-watching, yet when things are going well (Kaliyev D+1) those same stats are referenced by the same people calling you a stat watcher. It's quite the double standard. I still think that it's a fair way to help determine how a player who might be expected to be an offensive contributor at the NHL level is doing at lower levels. If a player isn't producing in the NCAA or the OHL and you are counting on that player to be a 1st liner in the NHL, you probably have a problem on your hands.

We disagree on Vilardi, and that is ok. If the back injury truly made his skating what it is today and before it he was an adequate skater it's hard to blame the Kings. I still feel like the fall had to have had at least something to do with skating, and I think it's fair to wonder if the Kings just missed the boat on how the league is trending. I haven't seen every player since then, but if a guy like RMG or Brandt Clarke are considered a poor skater by current draft standards it's tough to imagine Vilardi going in round 1 in any draft since the one he went in. But it all comes down to how much the skating was hurt, and we may never know.

I'm not writing off Turcotte, as I said above. I still think he will be a good middle six guy for the Kings.
Vilardi it's just tougher to see with the skating and the history going against him. If you are a 1st rounder and you are a fringe NHL'er entering your age 23 season the deck is just really stacked against you. If he makes it he will be a bit of an anomaly.

 

[cyclones22]

Kupari has a future for sure. It's at wing. Started out decent enough at center. Then disappeared basically for long stretches of games. They send him back to Ontario to play wing and he excels. Comes back at wing and plays well. Then of course TMc moves him back to center and his play falls off again. He's a wing for FFS, Todd.

 

[Herby]

Especially for a guy who is by all accounts inside and out loyal to a fault.

Maybe just raw desperation. Not that it's justified, but seems like the simplest answer. But I agree gonna be a hell of a read.

I think it's just another in the long line of just horrific decisions that Lombardi made following the 2nd Cup. The guy had the Midas touch for three seasons and then was probably the worst GM in the league for the next three.

But that Richards thing was not only cap circumvention but it was trying to deny a man who had really gave his all to the franchise for 4 seasons something like what $20-25m? As much as we all hate some of the stuff with Tampa, Chicago, Arizona etc. none of those teams were trying to take contracted money away from a player. I give Richards a ton of credit for even being able to show up to these things and be around DL, could you be around someone who tried to do that to you? I don't know if I could.

I'm happy Richards was able to at least get most of the money that was owed to him by the Kings. And maybe that is the reason he feels better about showing up.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

^^^ especially when the compliance buyout was a thing the previous summer. Felt like a pride thing, not being seen taking a league handout.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

meh feels like every year... kopitar sucks blah blah. maybe blocking some people has shielded me from the garbage.

I’d love to know who you’re blocking. I tried that route for a while but every conversation is so nonsensical it’s better for continuity’s sake to have all the participants rather than have the “normals”screaming at themselves.

 

[Rick Knickleback]

I thought Kupari looked good against Edmonton. One of the few Kings who did. Stats bear it out too: no points, but won 1/2 his faceoffs, hit people, and held his own on possession. Generally proactive with the puck. Looked like a good 3rd liner. As with a few others, hope he gets an honest look.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

I thought Kupari looked good against Edmonton. One of the few Kings who did. Stats bear it out too: no points, but won 1/2 his faceoffs, hit people, and held his own on possession. Generally proactive with the puck. Looked like a good 3rd liner. As with a few others, hope he gets an honest look.

Kupari was the guy pegged as trade bait because everyone drafted higher, had they immediately hit, would have made him redundant. Unfortunately this hasn’t happened yet, but thankfully he’s still tracking upward.

 

[Rick Knickleback]

Kupari was the guy pegged as trade bait because everyone drafted higher, had they immediately hit, would have made him redundant. Unfortunately this hasn’t happened yet, but thankfully he’s still tracking upward.

Yeah, if he anything he’s more of a threat to Turcotte’s future at this point.

 

[Cianide]

I think it boils down to does AEG want to make money now, or wait a while and make money later. I think they have chosen the former.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I think it boils down to does AEG want to make money now, or wait a while and make money later. I think they have chosen the former.

They spent the previous 3 seasons before last tanking...how many more should they go? Besides, they aren't acquiring an 8-mil player so they can pursue a lottery pick.