Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[Axl Rhoadz]

With some of these people there is no middle ground. Any kind of criticism means bust. Whether it’s QB, Turcotte or whoever.

I’m sure you remember the stuff from his freshman year. All I said was the offensive game is not what was projected or what is expected from a 5 OA and I’d lower expectations to more of a middle 6 type player and immediately it’s “you think he is a bust” or “how can you call him a bust” or “stat watcher”That evaluation has aged well but no one acknowledges that, again it’s just seen as calling him a bust with literally no evidence to back it up.

And they won’t even have any dialogue about what they mean, look at Axl. I answer any of his question and he doesn’t do the same for anyone else. What does “I still believe” even mean?

You still believe he will play in the NHL?

You still believe he is the next Toews or
Richards?

I don't know what he will be because I don't pretend to predict the future like so many others around here.

'I still believe' he'll be a solid contributor to this team and a player that the general fanbase will be excited to watch every game. If we haven't moved off of his current status a year from now, my hope will wane.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Turcotte is a maybe for rookie camp in a couple weeks. That’s not progress coming off his missing rookie camp at the last minute.

We can all pray for health, wish the kid best and hold onto fantasy projections. But if he doesn’t show potential for another season, he’s basically in right off territory. And since this is Blake’s Kings, he’ll have to reach Pavel Rosa status before the team realizes the ship has sailed.

 

[Herby]

I don't know what he will be because I don't pretend to predict the future like so many others around here.

'I still believe' he'll be a solid contributor to this team and a player that the general fanbase will be excited to watch every game. If we haven't moved off of his current status a year from now, my hope will wane.

Your second sentence contradicts your first.

But think what you want, I don’t really even disagree. I just don’t get the need to say that people are saying things that they simply aren’t saying.

No one is calling him a bust or toast. It’s basically people who are still very optimistic or people who think he will be a middle six if healthy. That group includes Jim Fox who is never going to be mistaken for Sol.

 

[Sol]

Unfortunately, the only thing he's had in common with Deadmarsh so far is late-career Deadmarsh as in the very end of Deadmarsh's career,

Not trolling but how does Turcotte remind you of Deadmarsh? I don't see any resemblance except for "hustle" or "plays hard" but there are a lot of guys that do that. Just completely different players to me.

I haven’t seen much of him either. But when I see some of the descriptions of his attribute it sounds like to they’re describing a really good 3rd liner who plays hard. Doesn’t really inspire hope to me since I usually think of top 10 players of having a lot of skill and heart along with it. If you have both then you’re in business. I remember when drafting Turcotte the purpose of it was pretty much his character. I was fine with it at that the time because I think the Richards archetype is something the new core needs. However, the more you think about it, small players like Turcotte have a hard time being Richards type.

I’m going to compare Lizzotte to Turcotte, Lizzotte plays with arguably the most heart on the team night in night out last year, but my god he took some disgusting hits that pretty much stopped him in his tracks. And the hits weren’t really too bad but lizotte is just small so every hit was upper body and he got concussion issues last year.

Lizotte is 5’7 and Turcotte is 5’11. He looks smaller than 5’11. Is his height inaccurate online for people who’ve seen him in real life ?

 

[lumbergh]

Saw this article on NHL.com, interview with Kevin Fiala about being traded to LA. Doesn't seem like he's set on playing with any one line in particular. Maybe the most interesting part of the interview is at the end:

"...you can't take anything for granted. With the Predators, we were in the Final, that was five years ago now, and you were like, 'All right, next year then.' And where have you been the last five years? I didn't make the playoffs, out first round, out first round, out first round.

"So that's what I saw in [Colorado Avalanche forward Nathan] MacKinnon last season. He goes 100 percent, doesn't take anything for granted because next year maybe you never know. You might be last. So when you get the chance, you have to take it. When you have a good team, that year you have to take it. We're going to start the season now soon and let's see where we are and then go from there."

Sounds hungry.

Fiala talks starting over with Kings in Q&A with NHL.com | NHL.com

Forward aims to help Los Angeles 'take big steps' after trade from Wild in June

www.nhl.com

 

[lumbergh]

I think a decent ceiling and comparable for Turcotte might be Conor Garland. I know they don't play the same position, but they do share tenacity, speed, and skill. Both smallish, but play bigger than their size. If Turcotte can slow the game down when the puck is on his stick to take advantage of his skills, he can still become an impact player like Garland. I hope Turcotte also learns to play with a giant chip on his shoulders like Garland.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Saw this article on NHL.com, interview with Kevin Fiala about being traded to LA. Doesn't seem like he's set on playing with any one line in particular. Maybe the most interesting part of the interview is at the end:

"...you can't take anything for granted. With the Predators, we were in the Final, that was five years ago now, and you were like, 'All right, next year then.' And where have you been the last five years? I didn't make the playoffs, out first round, out first round, out first round.

"So that's what I saw in [Colorado Avalanche forward Nathan] MacKinnon last season. He goes 100 percent, doesn't take anything for granted because next year maybe you never know. You might be last. So when you get the chance, you have to take it. When you have a good team, that year you have to take it. We're going to start the season now soon and let's see where we are and then go from there."

Sounds hungry.

Fiala talks starting over with Kings in Q&A with NHL.com | NHL.com

Forward aims to help Los Angeles 'take big steps' after trade from Wild in June

www.nhl.com

Didn’t he get the memo that the smart fans would prefer he go about 50% so we can lose more games?

 

[kilowatt]

Didn’t he get the memo that the smart fans would prefer he go about 50% so we can lose more games?

This feels like a real strawman argument here lol, what? Who is this supposed to be pointed at? No one wants the team to lose, but many (fairly) question what’s been built.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

This feels like a real strawman argument here lol, what?

Drink.

 

[Lt Dan]

You still believe he is the next Toews or
Richards?

At this point, I hope he is the next Eric Belanger

 

[Herby]

At this point, I hope he is the next Eric Belanger

Turcotte scores in OT to beat the Oilers after goals by TJ Tynan, Anze Kopitar and Phil Danault force OT?

 

[Johnny Utah]

This rookie camp roster might be the softest the Kings ever drafted.

Does Blake just think physicality is just dead?

 

[Herby]

This rookie camp roster might be the softest the Kings ever drafted.

Does Blake just think physicality is just dead?

Yes, and he is correct.

That might change down the road but as of now it’s not something teams value.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I haven’t seen much of him either. But when I see some of the descriptions of his attribute it sounds like to they’re describing a really good 3rd liner who plays hard. Doesn’t really inspire hope to me since I usually think of top 10 players of having a lot of skill and heart along with it. If you have both then you’re in business. I remember when drafting Turcotte the purpose of it was pretty much his character. I was fine with it at that the time because I think the Richards archetype is something the new core needs. However, the more you think about it, small players like Turcotte have a hard time being Richards type.

I’m going to compare Lizzotte to Turcotte, Lizzotte plays with arguably the most heart on the team night in night out last year, but my god he took some disgusting hits that pretty much stopped him in his tracks. And the hits weren’t really too bad but lizotte is just small so every hit was upper body and he got concussion issues last year.

Lizotte is 5’7 and Turcotte is 5’11. He looks smaller than 5’11. Is his height inaccurate online for people who’ve seen him in real life ?

Some posters obviously disagree on his skill level but I see an elite IQ and a guy that plays high-speed with pace and can keep up with anyone. His shot sucks, but his playmaking is awesome. He's not going to snipe from the circles, but he's gonna bury a million goals in tight.

But yeah I'd say 5'10" or 5"11" he is, he just maybe looks smaller because he hasn't filled out.

I think a decent ceiling and comparable for Turcotte might be Conor Garland. I know they don't play the same position, but they do share tenacity, speed, and skill. Both smallish, but play bigger than their size. If Turcotte can slow the game down when the puck is on his stick to take advantage of his skills, he can still become an impact player like Garland. I hope Turcotte also learns to play with a giant chip on his shoulders like Garland.

That's really not Turcotte's game unless he's on the cycle, though. He's a high-speed pace player in general, he's always moving, his work rate is one of his biggest strengths. I get what you're saying I just dont' see him as that kind of player--he's certainly thoughtful and a good playmaker but he's gonna much rather take several steps than hold the puck and look for a play calmly. Garland likes to dangle in tight and draw checks.

 

[Statto]

I think Turcotte has a career, and probably a pretty quality one. The concussions are a concern though, especially with a guy who is going to play a sandpaper game. If it were Kaliyev with these concussions it wouldn’t be as big of a deal.

And compete does carry you a long way, a guy like Lizotte with average compete is playing in the AHL or overseas. Turcotte is obviously a much better player than Lizotte and his compete locks him into a good middle six, it’s just to score a lot in this league and be a 1st liner or a very good 2C which you are hoping from a 5OA you need to have a pretty elite skill level. With Turcotte there hasn’t been much across 3 different leagues since draft night that makes you think high-end skill set.

I said briefly that I think he will be an impact player. By that I meant he will make things happen, even if the points are not always there (middle 6 level, not elite). He will create space, provide a spark and if we ever win a cup with him then he’s the guy that gets the game 7 Cup Winning Goal in OT, which will be only his 3rd in 20 play off games (all game winners).

That’s the ‘type‘ of guy he will be for us… Note: TYPE before anyone takes me too literally.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

Saw this article on NHL.com, interview with Kevin Fiala about being traded to LA. Doesn't seem like he's set on playing with any one line in particular. Maybe the most interesting part of the interview is at the end:





Sounds hungry.

Fiala talks starting over with Kings in Q&A with NHL.com | NHL.com

Forward aims to help Los Angeles 'take big steps' after trade from Wild in June

www.nhl.com

I hope so. I love Fiala but his trend in fantasy hockey is to have a slow start and an otherworldly second half. Hopefully he’s flying in October.

 

[lumbergh]

That's really not Turcotte's game unless he's on the cycle, though. He's a high-speed pace player in general, he's always moving, his work rate is one of his biggest strengths. I get what you're saying I just dont' see him as that kind of player--he's certainly thoughtful and a good playmaker but he's gonna much rather take several steps than hold the puck and look for a play calmly. Garland likes to dangle in tight and draw checks.

I think that's the thing I don't like about Turcotte's game. He's a relentless puck hound, but spends a lot of time just chasing pucks and hasn't found a way to get ahead of the play. (This is from my limited viewing of him in the NHL)

When he figures out a way to play smarter, his speed and tenacity will be much more useful.

 

[tomd]

Yes, and he is correct.

That might change down the road but as of now it’s not something teams value.

Teams can get by in the regular season with a non-physical lineup but the playoffs are all about size and physicality. And not the goon-ish type but physicality combined with talent. This seems especially true on defense. Just watching the playoffs the past couple of years makes that very obvious.

 

[YP44]

This rookie camp roster might be the softest the Kings ever drafted.

Does Blake just think physicality is just dead?

Did they just draft a few guys over 6"5?

 

[KingsFan7824]

With some of these people there is no middle ground. Any kind of criticism means bust. Whether it’s QB, Turcotte or whoever.

I’m sure you remember the stuff from his freshman year. All I said was the offensive game is not what was projected or what is expected from a 5 OA and I’d lower expectations to more of a middle 6 type player and immediately it’s “you think he is a bust” or “how can you call him a bust” or “stat watcher”That evaluation has aged well but no one acknowledges that, again it’s just seen as calling him a bust with literally no evidence to back it up.

And they won’t even have any dialogue about what they mean, look at Axl. I answer any of his question and he doesn’t do the same for anyone else. What does “I still believe” even mean?

You still believe he will play in the NHL?

You still believe he is the next Toews or
Richards?

Haven't you been calling the Vilardi and Turcotte picks a disaster? If disaster isn't synonymous with bust, then what does disaster mean?

 

[Herby]

Haven't you been calling the Vilardi and Turcotte picks a disaster? If disaster isn't synonymous with bust, then what does disaster mean?

Vilardi I don’t have a problem calling a bust. But he is 2 years older than Turcotte and has a fatal flaw that Turcotte doesn’t have, those are two big differences. If Turcotte is an AHL/NHL tweener in 2 years he can be called a bust too, but right now he is a long way from that.

And calling a pick a whiff does not make the player a bust, just the pick a disaster. The Kings had a chance to draft multiple players who have already proven to be difference makers in the league and who project to be legit stars to superstars, something you should expect to be shooting for with a #5OA pick. Not a middle six energy player.

I have been wrong about many things on this forum (Jonathan Quick for one), but what have I said about Turcotte the last 2-3 years hasn't been correct, whether it was evaluation from in-person observations or with development decisions? As I've said a million times on this forum he will be a fine middle-six forward who will add value to a team, much like an Andrew Copp, but if any NHL team used a top-5 pick on Andrew Copp it would be a disaster pick too, but it doesn't mean the player is a bust. I'm amazed that someone as knowledgeable as you can't grasp that those two things can both be true.

Do you watch football? Is Jared Goff a bust, or is he an NFL starting QB who was just drafted 20 picks to early?

Think of Turcotte the same way, he will be a solid middle-six NHL player who was drafted 20 picks to early.

 

[Herby]

I think that's the thing I don't like about Turcotte's game. He's a relentless puck hound, but spends a lot of time just chasing pucks and hasn't found a way to get ahead of the play. (This is from my limited viewing of him in the NHL)

When he figures out a way to play smarter, his speed and tenacity will be much more useful.

This is all true, but a tiger can't chance his stripes. Turcotte is a go-go-go player and those players often have trouble slowing the game down to be truly effective offensive players at higher levels. In the USHL he was just so much more skilled than everyone else it probably didn't matter but at higher levels with more skilled players you can't just will yourself to be a scorer.

Most top line players in the NHL have a sense of space and an ability to slow down the game enough where they can produce high amounts of high quality offensive chances resulting in goals and assists. I don't believe Alex Turcotte has the ability to do that, it's just in his DNA to go-go-go. And he can and IMO will be an effective middle six/top 9 type player for the Kings doing that, but that is his ceiling.

Jack Johnson was in many ways a similar player, he had nothing but a fast forward button and couldn't take the next step because he couldn't slow the game down, that was never in his DNA. JJ had more natural talent which took him further (red flags showed at the NHL level where Turcottes were at the NCAA level), but it prevented him from being a solid top pairing defenseman in the league.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Vilardi I don’t have a problem calling a bust. But he is 2 years older than Turcotte and has a fatal flaw that Turcotte doesn’t have, those are two big differences. If Turcotte is an AHL/NHL tweener in 2 years he can be called a bust too, but right now he is a long way from that.

And calling a pick a whiff does not make the player a bust, just the pick a disaster. The Kings had a chance to draft multiple players who have already proven to be difference makers in the league and who project to be legit stars to superstars, something you should expect to be shooting for with a #5OA pick. Not a middle six energy player.

I have been wrong about many things on this forum (Jonathan Quick for one), but what have I said about Turcotte the last 2-3 years hasn't been correct, whether it was evaluation from in-person observations or with development decisions? As I've said a million times on this forum he will be a fine middle-six forward who will add value to a team, much like an Andrew Copp, but if any NHL team used a top-5 pick on Andrew Copp it would be a disaster pick too, but it doesn't mean the player is a bust. I'm amazed that someone as knowledgeable as you can't grasp that those two things can both be true.

Do you watch football? Is Jared Goff a bust, or is he an NFL starting QB who was just drafted 20 picks to early?

Think of Turcotte the same way, he will be a solid middle-six NHL player who was drafted 20 picks to early.

Please excuse me as I'm slow and uneducated...but I'm struggling with this term 'disaster pick'. Did you consider Turcotte this on the day he was drafted? I'm assuming no....in fact, this is what YOU had to say about the pick:

"As for Turcotte, love the pick, he looks like a championship caliber 2C"

Much like the rest of the NHL experts out in the world, you most likely had him slotted in the top 5...no? If not, maybe you are an in idiot as well? You are probably saying something like we should have picked Zegras, but then where do you think Zegras should have been picked given that he fell to #8? So does that mean that potentially 6-7 other teams had 'disaster picks' as well?

Take a look at this thread...lots of excitement all around...nobody saying it was a disaster or that we should of picked Zegras, lol. I love these discussion...so f***ing stupid.

Prospect Info: - 5th Overall Pick, Alex Turcotte, C, USNTDP UPDATED: Signs 3 Year ELC 3/11/20

Our Look Alex Turcotte Scouting Report: 2019 NHL Draft #5 - Last Word on Hockey

forums.hfboards.com

 

[FSL KINGS]

Strudel just resigned at 8. Maybe we should slow walk our prospects until the team is ready to make a push so we don't destroy the teams cap?

 

[Herby]

Please excuse me as I'm slow and uneducated...but I'm struggling with this term 'disaster pick'. Did you consider Turcotte this on the day he was drafted? I'm assuming no....in fact, this is what YOU had to say about the pick:

"As for Turcotte, love the pick, he looks like a championship caliber 2C"

Much like the rest of the NHL experts out in the world, you most likely had him slotted in the top 5...no? If not, maybe you are an in idiot as well? You are probably saying something like we should have picked Zegras, but then where do you think Zegras should have been picked given that he fell to #8? So does that mean that potentially 6-7 other teams had 'disaster picks' as well?

Take a look at this thread...lots of excitement all around...nobody saying it was a disaster or that we should of picked Zegras, lol. I love these discussion...so f***ing stupid.

Prospect Info: - 5th Overall Pick, Alex Turcotte, C, USNTDP UPDATED: Signs 3 Year ELC 3/11/20

Our Look Alex Turcotte Scouting Report: 2019 NHL Draft #5 - Last Word on Hockey

forums.hfboards.com

Axl,

Unlike you, I can adjust my expectations and realities based on what happens in the time after the pick is made. You choose to completely ignore what has happened at Wisconsin and as a professional and instead choose to cling to evaluations made 4 years ago while playing in the USHL.

I thought Reggie Bush was going to be a game-changing player in the NFL, so did all the scouts and the media. He very clearly wasn't and we were able to call it a poor pick even if it went against what we thought on draft night.

The pick was a disaster as soon as it became apparent that Turcotte was not going to be an impact player at the NHL level like most of us thought based on his age 17 season. For the millionth time that doesn't mean the player himself is a bust, but when you have a Top 5 pick and the player doesn't turn out to be an impact player it is safe to call the pick a failure.

This isn't some kind of gotcha game Axel, all of us have been wrong on picks before.