Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[BigKing]

Nice to read some positive spins on Turcotte. Been really excited about this kid as his play always reminded of one of my all time favorite Kings, Adam Deadmarsh.

Not giving up yet!

Unfortunately, the only thing he's had in common with Deadmarsh so far is late-career Deadmarsh as in the very end of Deadmarsh's career,

Not trolling but how does Turcotte remind you of Deadmarsh? I don't see any resemblance except for "hustle" or "plays hard" but there are a lot of guys that do that. Just completely different players to me.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I don't see any resemblance except for "hustle" or "plays hard" but there are a lot of guys that do that. Just completely different players to me.

I don't know what to tell you, that's what he reminded me of when I watched him play ... hustle, drive, scoring by getting into the hard, dirty areas -- I would disagree that there are 'a lot of guys that can do that' successfully. Those players that make that aspect their bread and butter, are hard to find.

 

[Herby]

Unfortunately, the only thing he's had in common with Deadmarsh so far is late-career Deadmarsh as in the very end of Deadmarsh's career,

Not trolling but how does Turcotte remind you of Deadmarsh? I don't see any resemblance except for "hustle" or "plays hard" but there are a lot of guys that do that. Just completely different players to me.

There is no comparison at all beyond the hustle and compete aspect. Deadmarsh was your classic 90's power forward. Turcotte projects as your modern era middle-six energy forward.

The most notable difference is in the offensive ability. Deadmarsh could score (22/50 in age 20, 33/60 in age 21 in the heart of the dead puck era. 42 goals in his final 96 career games with the Kings). He was one of the better players in the entire NHL on the PP. He was impossible to move in front of the net, even for the strong as an ox defenseman who played in that era and possessed a lethal shot.

And I'm sure as you know, he could fight. A great middleweight fighter with victories over some of the top middleweights at the time, and even the ability to move up and challenge some heavyweights who were much bigger than him.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

There is no comparison at all beyond the hustle and compete aspect. Deadmarsh was your classic 90's power forward.

The most notable difference is in the offensive ability. Deadmarsh could score (22/50 in age 20, 33/60 in age 21 in the heart of the dead puck era. 42 goals in his final 96 career games with the Kings). He was one of the better players in the entire NHL on the PP. He was impossible to move in front of the net, even for the strong as an ox defenseman who played in that era and possessed a lethal shot.

And I'm sure as you know, he could fight. A great middleweight fighter with victories over some of the top middleweights at the time, and even the ability to move up and challenge some heavyweights who were much bigger than him.

Jesus Christ -- fine, he's nothing like Deadmarsh and it's a sin to mention him in same sentence. My bad, boyz, carry on.

 

[Herby]

Jesus Christ -- fine, he's nothing like Deadmarsh and it's a sin to mention him in same sentence. My bad, boyz, carry on.

Ok, do you want to have a realistic hockey discussion on here or not?

If I said Brandt Clarke reminded me of Chris Pronger should I expect nobody to reply and correct me?

Doesn't mean he can't be a useful player for the Kings, but really the only similarities are compete level and concussions. They don't even play the same position.

And surprised that you find such offense in a post that glorified the career of a player two posts earlier you called "One of my favorite Kings of all-time"

Was anything I posted about Deadmarsh incorrect?

 

[BigKing]

I don't know what to tell you, that's what he reminded me of when I watched him play ... hustle, drive, scoring by getting into the hard, dirty areas -- I would disagree that there are 'a lot of guys that can do that' successfully. Those players that make that aspect their bread and butter, are hard to find.

Thanks for the response. I personally don't see similarities that would lead to direct comparisons as players but they can share some traits.

As for me saying "a lot of guys can do that", I mean that a lot of guys can play hard and hustle. Blake Lizotte comes to mind.

 

[Lt Dan]

Nice to read some positive spins on Turcotte. Been really excited about this kid as his play always reminded of one of my all time favorite Kings, Adam Deadmarsh.

Not giving up yet!

Are you f***ing serious with this? Or is this another one of your look at me posts?

Are you going to say that Clarke reminds you of Rob Blake next?

Or that Byfield reminds you of Gretzky?

 

[Herby]

Are you f***ing serious with this? Or is this another one of your look at me posts?

Are you going to say that Clarke reminds you of Rob Blake next?

Or that Byfield reminds you of Gretzky?

Don't be crazy, there is only one Gretzky.

Byfield is the next Lemieux!

 

[kingsfan28]

There is no comparison at all beyond the hustle and compete aspect. Deadmarsh was your classic 90's power forward. Turcotte projects as your modern era middle-six energy forward.

The most notable difference is in the offensive ability. Deadmarsh could score (22/50 in age 20, 33/60 in age 21 in the heart of the dead puck era. 42 goals in his final 96 career games with the Kings). He was one of the better players in the entire NHL on the PP. He was impossible to move in front of the net, even for the strong as an ox defenseman who played in that era and possessed a lethal shot.

And I'm sure as you know, he could fight. A great middleweight fighter with victories over some of the top middleweights at the time, and even the ability to move up and challenge some heavyweights who were much bigger than him.

And you don't mess with him when he's pissed!

 

[kingsfan28]

Are you f***ing serious with this? Or is this another one of your look at me posts?

Are you going to say that Clarke reminds you of Rob Blake next?

Or that Byfield reminds you of Gretzky?

Whoa LT, you might want to safety that rifle. I see the same thing, only in his skating style. Watching him play last night, before he score I thought of Deader, the way went skated into the corner, then fought for the puck. Everything else is yet to be determined.

Now drop and give me 50 soldier!

 

[Herby]

Also, what does

"Not giving up yet" even mean?

I can't think of a single person on this forum (ok, maybe Sol) who has given up on Turcotte or called him a bust. I assume this is directed at someone like me, but I don't know why. I have been saying for almost 3 years now he reminds me of Andrew Copp and that is who he can become if he stays healthy. Andrew Copp is one of the more valuable middle-six players in the NHL.

The gripe for me (and I think many others) is only about the poor ROI for a Top 5 pick and the type of players the Kings passed on to take Turcotte. So I guess if you think he turns out to be a player who warrants a top 5 pick we are disagreeing, but I don't know where the giving up part comes from.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Alex Turcotte is as much like Adam Deadmarsh as Blake Lizotte is like Theo Fleury.

 

[Lt Dan]

Whoa LT, you might want to safety that rifle. I see the same thing, only in his skating style. Watching him play last night, before he score I thought of Deader, the way went skated into the corner, then fought for the puck. Everything else is yet to be determined.

Now drop and give me 50 soldier!

No way man

Deadmarsh was a proper psycho, like Robert in Red Dawn

I could totally see Deadmarsh drinking the blood of his opponents Turcotte ...no way Jose and No way Guadalupe! Turcotte would compare much closer to a Mike Richards or J Toews.

 

[King'sPawn]

Even though I'm trying to steer away from player comparisons (just because sometimes people translate stylistic comparisons into impact comparisons), I still see Turcotte as a Toews-like.

He's not a skilled powerforward who will run through a wall like Deadmarsh was. But, he's a two-way center, not afraid to go to the dirty areas, has a better than average IQ who slightly favors shooting over passing like Toews. Not a speedster, either. Just succeeds through effort more than flash.

I don't think he's nearly as intense as Toews, and he's smaller. But that's always what I saw out of him as far as his potential role of being a very good top-six center. His size and health are the two biggest question marks with him. It stems back to a conversation I had with Dean Lombardi back when he acquired Richards. I had said what a good get he was. Lombardi said to the effect of, "Yeah, we know what we have with him. It's a question of how long his body can take it."

I'm concerned we're seeing similar questions with Turcotte before his career even began. You know what sort of player you're getting with him, but it's an issue of how badly the combination of COVID, concussions, and other injuries have affected his ability to play the game he's used to.

Take that for what it's worth.

 

[Herby]

Even though I'm trying to steer away from player comparisons (just because sometimes people translate stylistic comparisons into impact comparisons), I still see Turcotte as a Toews-like.

He's not a skilled powerforward who will run through a wall like Deadmarsh was. But, he's a two-way center, not afraid to go to the dirty areas, has a better than average IQ who slightly favors shooting over passing like Toews. Not a speedster, either. Just succeeds through effort more than flash.

I don't think he's nearly as intense as Toews, and he's smaller. But that's always what I saw out of him as far as his potential role of being a very good top-six center. His size and health are the two biggest question marks with him. It stems back to a conversation I had with Dean Lombardi back when he acquired Richards. I had said what a good get he was. Lombardi said to the effect of, "Yeah, we know what we have with him. It's a question of how long his body can take it."

I'm concerned we're seeing similar questions with Turcotte before his career even began. You know what sort of player you're getting with him, but it's an issue of how badly the combination of COVID, concussions, and other injuries have affected his ability to play the game he's used to.

Take that for what it's worth.

The Toews comparisons are just tough because the offensive game has just not been at a Toews level in any of the seasons since being drafted. I get the pre-draft comparisons based on NTDP offensive production, but the USHL to NCAA jump obviously effected Turcotte more than it did some of the others from that draft class and it's carried over to the professional jump too.

Toews gets a lot of credit for the compete and intensity levels but he also had unbelievable game sense on both sides of the rink and could really shoot the puck. I wouldn’t call him a naturally gifted offensive player like a Patrick Kane or Zegras but not many thought the game like Toews did. Which I think is an area (along with defensive ability) that fans think can be to easily achieved or isn't something you have or don't have. I always get a good chuckle with the "Well, he can just be a Danault type" like being a Selke caliber center is just an easy thing to do. The same thing is kind of true of offensive game sense.

Toews debuted in the NHL at 19 and his first ten years in the league he scored about 30 goals a season while often checking the other teams top centers, he was a better finisher than people give him credit for.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Are you f***ing serious with this? Or is this another one of your look at me posts?

Are you going to say that Clarke reminds you of Rob Blake next?

Or that Byfield reminds you of Gretzky?

1) Rude

2) not sure what you mean by ‘look at me’ posts, but if I was starving for attention, I think I would average more that 24 posts/month…how many do you average?

3) can’t comment on Clarke as I’ve not really seen him play.

4) Byfield does not remind me of Gretzky…not even sure who I would compare him to…maybe a faster Malkin?

 

[Sleeping Dog]

Don't be crazy, there is only one Gretzky.

Byfield is the next Lemieux!

I sure hope his peak is higher than Brendan Lemieux!

 

[King'sPawn]

The Toews comparisons are just tough because the offensive game has just not been at a Toews level in any of the seasons since being drafted. I get the pre-draft comparisons based on NTDP offensive production, but the USHL to NCAA jump obviously effected Turcotte more than it did some of the others from that draft class and it's carried over to the professional jump too.

Toews gets a lot of credit for the compete and intensity levels but he also had unbelievable game sense on both sides of the rink and could really shoot the puck. I wouldn’t call him a naturally gifted offensive player like a Patrick Kane or Zegras but not many thought the game like Toews did. Which I think is an area (along with defensive ability) that fans think can be to easily achieved or isn't something you have or don't have. I always get a good chuckle with the "Well, he can just be a Danault type" like being a Selke caliber center is just an easy thing to do. The same thing is kind of true of offensive game sense.

Toews debuted in the NHL at 19 and his first ten years in the league he scored about 30 goals a season while often checking the other teams top centers, he was a better finisher than people give him credit for.

Good points, though this reinforces why I avoid comparisons (not directed at you) - the overall point of his role and style of play is what I focus on. Yes, Toews has all these skillsets to a much higher degree, and he was able to develop them to a point where he can succeed at the NHL level to be a franchise player.

Now I'll just be happy that Turcotte plays in the NHL regularly, which I think can still happen, though there has to be a marked improvement in production. Playing for >85% of the season would be a good start.

 

[Herby]

Good points, though this reinforces why I avoid comparisons (not directed at you) - the overall point of his role and style of play is what I focus on. Yes, Toews has all these skillsets to a much higher degree, and he was able to develop them to a point where he can succeed at the NHL level to be a franchise player.

Now I'll just be happy that Turcotte plays in the NHL regularly, which I think can still happen, though there has to be a marked improvement in production. Playing for >85% of the season would be a good start.

I think Turcotte has a career, and probably a pretty quality one. The concussions are a concern though, especially with a guy who is going to play a sandpaper game. If it were Kaliyev with these concussions it wouldn’t be as big of a deal.

And compete does carry you a long way, a guy like Lizotte with average compete is playing in the AHL or overseas. Turcotte is obviously a much better player than Lizotte and his compete locks him into a good middle six, it’s just to score a lot in this league and be a 1st liner or a very good 2C which you are hoping from a 5OA you need to have a pretty elite skill level. With Turcotte there hasn’t been much across 3 different leagues since draft night that makes you think high-end skill set.

 

[kingsfan28]

No way man

Deadmarsh was a proper psycho, like Robert in Red Dawn
View attachment 582114

I could totally see Deadmarsh drinking the blood of his opponents Turcotte ...no way Jose and No way Guadalupe! Turcotte would compare much closer to a Mike Richards or J Toews.

Red Dawn has entered the chat!

I could see those possible comparisons, lets hope we get to see one come close to panning out.

 

[johnjm22]

When Deadmarsh came into the league full time, he was playing on a powerhouse Avs roster that won the SC. They were one of the best offensive teams in the league behind only Pittsburgh who had Lemieux and Jagr.

It's hard to find TOI stats from then, but it looks like was playing in the top six.

That's part of the reason his stats were so good right out of the gate.

Also those seasons were not dead puck era. Although they were right on the cusp of it.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Deadmarsh was a feared player due to his power game, whereas Turcotte is a player we fear for his safety.

I was hoping he'd be a Chris Drury type of center/winger who can play in all situations, both are similar in size, and Drury had an okay freshman year at Boston College before he went on a tear in his last three years of college hockey before turning pro.

If only the Turcotte spent more years at Wisconsin developing his game before turning pro prematurely.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Deadmarsh was a feared player due to his power game, whereas Turcotte is a player we fear for his safety.

I was hoping he'd be a Chris Drury type of center/winger who can play in all situations, both are similar in size, and Drury had an okay freshman year at Boston College before he went on a tear in his last three years of college hockey before turning pro.

If only the Turcotte spent more years at Wisconsin developing his game before turning pro prematurely.

Oh sweet, another Turcotte is toast post.

@Herby , I haven't given up yet!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Oh sweet, another Turcotte is toast post.

@Herby , I haven't given up yet!

Where did I say he's toast? Is it unfair to be disappointed by the results thus far from a fifth overall pick when we're approaching four years since his draft year?

 

[Herby]

Where did I say he's toast? Is it unfair to be disappointed by the results thus far from a fifth overall pick when we're approaching four years since his draft year?

With some of these people there is no middle ground. Any kind of criticism means bust. Whether it’s QB, Turcotte or whoever.

I’m sure you remember the stuff from his freshman year. All I said was the offensive game is not what was projected or what is expected from a 5 OA and I’d lower expectations to more of a middle 6 type player and immediately it’s “you think he is a bust” or “how can you call him a bust” or “stat watcher”That evaluation has aged well but no one acknowledges that, again it’s just seen as calling him a bust with literally no evidence to back it up.

And they won’t even have any dialogue about what they mean, look at Axl. I answer any of his question and he doesn’t do the same for anyone else. What does “I still believe” even mean?

You still believe he will play in the NHL?

You still believe he is the next Toews or
Richards?