Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[Mats26]

I think it took Kempe until he was like 26 to prove he was a keeper...I think we have time.

Turc needs to put on some weight though, that should help the type of game he plays.

Kempe just turned 25 in September. We started to see some flashes at 24. This year he continued his progression and is finding the back of the net.

 

[deaderhead28]

We will never know which one of our lesser prospects could ever be a Doughty or Kopitar of that age, so long as we keep hiding them behind those same men in their 30’s. The elite talent will almost always rise, but the lesser levels of pedigree will always need some nurture.

Have to pick between long term asset maturation, or short term feel good. Having both is a great sign, but it has to come organically as you develop youth, not while clinging to the glory days of aging stars.

You don't ice a team with all propects.This team isn't competing for at lease two to three years if Blake stays the path,have patience.

 

[LAKings88]

That was actually a really good listen for my morning out fishing. Much like with Heyward it seems that in the heat of the moment in the games the homerism just consumes both these guys, but when they are able to be in an atmosphere like this their knowledge of the game really comes out. Wish we saw more of this from Jim on the broadcasts.

Some thoughts.

- On Chychrun it depends on the cost. If you can get him for Turcotte, Vilardi and this years 1st I think you do it every single time. The problem is that I believe both these guys have less value than is perceived on this board, and in fact that most valuable asset going would be this years first, is that enough to get Arizona to trade him here? Atleast they aren't in our divison anymore, so that helps. Also JC did play two playoff rounds in the bubble a couple of years ago, so its not as if he has always been on awful teams. He is young enough where he can be a big part in the Byfield, Clarke, Kaliyev era and can also help the team this season on the PP and generating offense from the blue line. There are risks but lots of potential reward too.

- I hate when people bring up Covid as an excuse for things going wrong (this is not just a point on the Kings, its used as an excuse by fans of many teams in many sports) Covid is not an LA Kings exclusive issue, every team in the league has dealt with Covid.

- Loved what he said about QB and how the next step now is to learn how to win battles at the NHL level and learn from players like Kopitar and Danault and be put into situations where he can learn and succeed (and take his lumps as well). It should have happened last year but we can't go back and change the poor decision to not have him up. People think there is some secret recipe for developing players like this, there isn't, there is a reason historically almost every team taking a player this high puts them in the NHL. If QB ends up back in the AHL again it's yet another development mistake by the Kings in handling this player. There is absolutely nothing he has to gain from playing down there, nothing at all.

- On Turcotte, ofcourse I am going to agree with Jim because he is saying what I have been saying since I saw him play. All the intangibles are great, but we are three seasons in and we are complimenting board battles and face washing people after a whistle from a player the Kings took #5 overall. Jim said that the Kings projected him as a #3 center, which if true is just an inexcusable use of draft capital. It's trying to get cute at the draft table, like taking a center in the 1st round in the NFL draft. It appears the Kings knew what (to me atleast) was plainly obvious, there was never a Toews or even a Richards upside but a Stoll upside. I'm not saying a guy like Turcotte doesn't help you win games, he does, but when you are picking that high you need to be targeting franchise players while targeting 3rd line centers later on in the draft. This rebuild may only get three top 10 picks, and Blake uses one of them on a guy they projected as a 3C? That is bad and really disappointing.

- Love the stuff about Durzi, he has a swagger that not many young Kings players have had in awhile. He knows his role in the NHL is not going to be as a safe chip it out or get it in deep kind of player but as a dynamic offensive player with some defensive short-comings. He reminds me a lot of Joe Corvo, who played the same way. Corvo had his shortcomings but played over a decade in the league providing solid puck moving ability and a strong ability to get pucks through to the goal. If Durzio can be a modern day Corvo that will be awesome for the Kings.

- On the Ducks, well I kind of disagree here, its not like it took longer for the Ducks prospects to get there (save Troy Terry). The guys they took in the middle of the decade didn't really live up to it. But they hit 2 homeruns and 1 really solid extra base hit with their 18, 19, 20 top picks. Compare Lundestrom (#23, 2018), Zegras (#9, 2019) and Drysdale (#6, 2020) to Kupari (#18, 2018), Turcotte (#5, 2019) and Byfield (#2, 2020). They had worse picks than us but have as of now taken it to us. Their evaluation and/or development has just been better than ours recently. That is disappointing

The Turcotte comment was infuriating honestly. He put a caveat saying each draft has its own strength basically but I know they said Zegras was discussed which just throws fuel on that fire.

 

[Telos]

I loved the interview and how candid Foxy was. In the end, I question those expectations for Turcotte. I don't see how you take him there if you expect him to be a 3rd line center. That sounds like a fallback rather than a goal. I still like Turcotte and think he will be a solid 2nd line option, hopefully center but if he has to be a winger that is fine as well. It's still way too early to tell and I think the selections we made were still best, especially at the time.

The bottom line is all the prospects the Kings have taken are developing at the same rate with the same flaws. That is on the organization and the development staff over the prospects. I am confident that they will get up to speed, but of course we all want it to be faster than say the development of Kempe. If that is how the Kings have to develop every one of their prospects then they are doing something wrong...

- Love the stuff about Durzi, he has a swagger that not many young Kings players have had in awhile. He knows his role in the NHL is not going to be as a safe chip it out or get it in deep kind of player but as a dynamic offensive player with some defensive short-comings. He reminds me a lot of Joe Corvo, who played the same way. Corvo had his shortcomings but played over a decade in the league providing solid puck moving ability and a strong ability to get pucks through to the goal. If Durzio can be a modern day Corvo that will be awesome for the Kings.

I just want to give you a shoutout for that killer comparison. It would be awesome if Durzi could put together a career like Corvo's.

 

[Schmooley]

The Turcotte comment was infuriating honestly. He put a caveat saying each draft has its own strength basically but I know they said Zegras was discussed which just throws fuel on that fire.

I think they had Byram Dach Turcotte Zegras in that order. They went with Turcotte and Bjornfot in the first round who were the more safe picks.
Cant blame them because especially at the time they were bare of prospects and couldnt blow a pick. At this juncture they need to take some swings on boom or bust high end scorers.

 

[Reaper45]

Corvo was NEVER as decisive with the puck as Durzi. Also Corvo had the cannon of a shot, something I’ve really yet to see from Durzi.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

I think they had Byram Dach Turcotte Zegras in that order. They went with Turcotte and Bjornfot in the first round who were the more safe picks.
Cant blame them because especially at the time they were bare of prospects and couldnt blow a pick. At this juncture they need to take some swings on boom or bust high end scorers.

I thnk this is correct. There is footage they later released on Black and White for 2019 draft...I found it! Watch at 2:50 mark...Yannetti leans over and says ' Byram's off the board...so just to double check, we're drafting Turcotte?'
Blake "yep" Look at Blake's face. Tells all, that he wanted Byram and /or Dach.
Hard to know if they had Cozens or Zegras higher. I made a thread the month of the draft, suggesting Zegras...but will admit I would have taken Turcotte, over him.



.

 

[RaymondReddington]

The main point....2 minutes....is asinine.....it was then, it is now....

But if you are going to have Kaliyev on the PP...then you want him using that shot....otherwise no good,

If you want to equate that with saying he's like Ovie, or Ovie like.....then so be it, again, asinine then, asinine now.

You are unbelievably arrogant and condescending...determined to make others who are as smart or smarter than you look stupid and foolish so you can feel superior.
Good luck to you in the human relations department...you will need it

 

[Herby]

Not how we do things around here, we only work in hindsight.....

But this is not an example of hindsight, it's a discussion of organizational philosophy when it comes to drafting players, especially with a pick as valuable as #5 OA. It's an interview with someone obviously connected to the organization that said on the day of the draft or shortly thereafter that he was told (presumably) by very high ups in the organization that the Kings projected Turcotte as a "very solid 3rd line center" which to me and many others is completely insane how you use that pick on a player you don't project as at the very least a 2nd line center, if not a 1st line player.

Had Fox said, "I was told they thought he was going to be a Jonathan Toews on the high end or maybe a Mike Richards type on the low end and the offense just hasn't really been there" (a reasonable expectation of a #5 pick) its a totally different discussion where hindsight can come in, but it sure seems that so far they got exactly what they were projecting on draft day. Now if this were a situation where they projected him one way and then he got into rookie camp and they realized quickly the projection was pretty far off (Colten Teubert) its a different discussion, but Fox sure seemed to be saying it was a draft projection. This could also explain the inexplicable decision to sign him early. If there was no concern about developing him into a scorer at the NHL level than maybe it did make sense to get him into LA's system asap, since LA's system is so good at producing as RJ says "Good little checkers"

It's not attacking the player, I know for the past two years I've gotten PM's and called out for being a "hater" on this player but if anyone who accuses me of that bothered to read my posts my biggest gripe was taking a low ceiling player with a #5 overall pick and that Turcotte did not have a skill-set that was going to translate to a big scorer at the NHL level, not that Turcotte was a bad player. Had the Kings taken Turcotte with the 15th pick instead of the 5th pick it is a whole different ballgame, but rebuilds just get so few picks this valuable, to use it on someone you project as a 3rd liner just sucks, especially for a team like the Kings who aren't good at developing scorers.

The kid is 20 so I'll give it more time but I won't second guess the pick. At the time it made sense.

I respectfully disagree. If the scouting staff projected him as a 3rd line center as Fox said it was not the right pick at the time. If the BAP for the Kings at that point was a future 3rd line center than this draft was viewed by the Kings as total garbage and the pick should have been traded for either a player or a draft pick in a different draft.

 

[lumbergh]

Foxy's comment about Turcotte seems like revisionist history. There's no way they thought his ceiling was a 3rd line center when they took him. I don't mind that he will be a 3rd line center if they have two great centers ahead of him, but Fox sounds to me like he's lowering expectations two years later.

 

[LAKings88]

Foxy's comment about Turcotte seems like revisionist history. There's no way they thought his ceiling was a 3rd line center when they took him. I don't mind that he will be a 3rd line center if they have two great centers ahead of him, but Fox sounds to me like he's lowering expectations two years later.

It's possible. I was happy with the pick at the time but I know that was debated and waivered on up until the pick, by the fanbase at least. I think it was Yanetti who talked about some the Kings scouts advocating for Zegras.

 

[tomd]

Foxy's comment about Turcotte seems like revisionist history. There's no way they thought his ceiling was a 3rd line center when they took him. I don't mind that he will be a 3rd line center if they have two great centers ahead of him, but Fox sounds to me like he's lowering expectations two years later.

I tend to agree...a little damage control going on there.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Love the Turcotte pick! Can anyone think of a better role modle than Danault to help develop Turcotte's game?

 

[JTeller97]

Foxy's comment about Turcotte seems like revisionist history. There's no way they thought his ceiling was a 3rd line center when they took him. I don't mind that he will be a 3rd line center if they have two great centers ahead of him, but Fox sounds to me like he's lowering expectations two years later.

I think he minced words and actually meant his floor was 3rd line center. There's absolutely no way on earth a team takes a player at 5 and believes his total upside is a bottom 6 forward. I personally still think his Floor is a 3c and that he definitely still has top 6 upside.

 

[Schmooley]

Foxy's comment about Turcotte seems like revisionist history. There's no way they thought his ceiling was a 3rd line center when they took him. I don't mind that he will be a 3rd line center if they have two great centers ahead of him, but Fox sounds to me like he's lowering expectations two years later.

I dont get why they are harping on Kupari, Turcotte and Byfield needing to produce yet sticking them with Brown and a revolving door of guys who can barely hang onto a roster spot. Put any one of them between Kempe and Iafallo with minutes and powerplay time and they will. Cant put them in a grinders role for 9 minutes and then expect top line production.

 

[kingsfan]

I respectfully disagree. If the scouting staff projected him as a 3rd line center as Fox said it was not the right pick at the time. If the BAP for the Kings at that point was a future 3rd line center than this draft was viewed by the Kings as total garbage and the pick should have been traded for either a player or a draft pick in a different draft.

I'd want to hear that from Blake or a member of the scouting staff. I like Jim, but he's a homer and is going to tailor the message to make LA look smart in his eyes. I doubt very much anyone thought Turcotte was a 3rd line C. Like I said, there's countless mocks out there having him at 3-8, scouts quoted by THN and other publications have him as a top six forward -many call him things like "a top-end talent" - and I seen a few different comparisons to Toews in my brief look back down draft memory lane. I doubt they, or any NHL team, felt Turcotte was going to be a 3rd line C.

 

[kings11]

I'd want to hear that from Blake or a member of the scouting staff. I like Jim, but he's a homer and is going to tailor the message to make LA look smart in his eyes. I doubt very much anyone thought Turcotte was a 3rd line C. Like I said, there's countless mocks out there having him at 3-8, scouts quoted by THN and other publications have him as a top six forward -many call him things like "a top-end talent" - and I seen a few different comparisons to Toews in my brief look back down draft memory lane. I doubt they, or any NHL team, felt Turcotte was going to be a 3rd line C.

I think Foxy misspoke, at first I thought he was talking about JAD.. either way, Turcotte was/is projected to be a top 6 player either at C or in the wing where he’d probably be more effective

 

[kingsfan28]

That was actually a really good listen for my morning out fishing. Much like with Heyward it seems that in the heat of the moment in the games the homerism just consumes both these guys, but when they are able to be in an atmosphere like this their knowledge of the game really comes out. Wish we saw more of this from Jim on the broadcasts.

Some thoughts.

- On Chychrun it depends on the cost. If you can get him for Turcotte, Vilardi and this years 1st I think you do it every single time. The problem is that I believe both these guys have less value than is perceived on this board, and in fact that most valuable asset going would be this years first, is that enough to get Arizona to trade him here? Atleast they aren't in our divison anymore, so that helps. Also JC did play two playoff rounds in the bubble a couple of years ago, so its not as if he has always been on awful teams. He is young enough where he can be a big part in the Byfield, Clarke, Kaliyev era and can also help the team this season on the PP and generating offense from the blue line. There are risks but lots of potential reward too.

-----

- On the Ducks, well I kind of disagree here, its not like it took longer for the Ducks prospects to get there (save Troy Terry). The guys they took in the middle of the decade didn't really live up to it. But they hit 2 homeruns and 1 really solid extra base hit with their 18, 19, 20 top picks. Compare Lundestrom (#23, 2018), Zegras (#9, 2019) and Drysdale (#6, 2020) to Kupari (#18, 2018), Turcotte (#5, 2019) and Byfield (#2, 2020). They had worse picks than us but have as of now taken it to us. Their evaluation and/or development has just been better than ours recently. That is disappointing

I still think that's too much. That's 3 first essentially
for him. I understand his position [the unicorn of hockey] and his age , but if it guts our center depth in one deal, pass. I think you could still make a deal with either one of those guys, or Kupari, and another higher prospect .

As for the Ducks, all 3 guys you brought up won their spots, plus they had like 7 open slots on their roster so it was a bit easier. We had 5 guys fighting for what... 1 or 2 spots, none in the top 6. Aside from Kupari, until Turcotte and Byfield play more than a few game, I'm gonna wait to call their development disappointing.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

But this is not an example of hindsight, it's a discussion of organizational philosophy when it comes to drafting players, especially with a pick as valuable as #5 OA. It's an interview with someone obviously connected to the organization that said on the day of the draft or shortly thereafter that he was told (presumably) by very high ups in the organization that the Kings projected Turcotte as a "very solid 3rd line center" which to me and many others is completely insane how you use that pick on a player you don't project as at the very least a 2nd line center, if not a 1st line player.

Had Fox said, "I was told they thought he was going to be a Jonathan Toews on the high end or maybe a Mike Richards type on the low end and the offense just hasn't really been there" (a reasonable expectation of a #5 pick) its a totally different discussion where hindsight can come in, but it sure seems that so far they got exactly what they were projecting on draft day. Now if this were a situation where they projected him one way and then he got into rookie camp and they realized quickly the projection was pretty far off (Colten Teubert) its a different discussion, but Fox sure seemed to be saying it was a draft projection. This could also explain the inexplicable decision to sign him early. If there was no concern about developing him into a scorer at the NHL level than maybe it did make sense to get him into LA's system asap, since LA's system is so good at producing as RJ says "Good little checkers"

It's not attacking the player, I know for the past two years I've gotten PM's and called out for being a "hater" on this player but if anyone who accuses me of that bothered to read my posts my biggest gripe was taking a low ceiling player with a #5 overall pick and that Turcotte did not have a skill-set that was going to translate to a big scorer at the NHL level, not that Turcotte was a bad player. Had the Kings taken Turcotte with the 15th pick instead of the 5th pick it is a whole different ballgame, but rebuilds just get so few picks this valuable, to use it on someone you project as a 3rd liner just sucks, especially for a team like the Kings who aren't good at developing scorers.



I respectfully disagree. If the scouting staff projected him as a 3rd line center as Fox said it was not the right pick at the time. If the BAP for the Kings at that point was a future 3rd line center than this draft was viewed by the Kings as total garbage and the pick should have been traded for either a player or a draft pick in a different draft.

You read way way way too much into my flippant comment lol, I agree with you though, if they thought Turcotte was going to be a 3rd line C, and took him 5th.....something is wrong there, we won't really ever know for sure....could be something lost in translation, bad game of telephone etc.....but if it's not, then yea, they done f***ed up

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

You are unbelievably arrogant and condescending...determined to make others who are as smart or smarter than you look stupid and foolish so you can feel superior.
Good luck to you in the human relations department...you will need it

Not condescending at all, to think a rooke like Kaliyev should be out there for 2 full minutes on the PP "like Ovi" because you like his shot, is an absolute asinine take...it was then, it is now, it will be in the future, it will be 25 years from now, it's an asinine take, on how hard it is to play in the NHL,

Sorry you couldn't handle that criticism of the take, next time......get a better take, if you would have stopped.....at saying they should utilize his shot like WSH does Ovechkin, and force it to him, shit...that's 100000000% better take than...they should play him for 2 full minutes etc.

 

[Little Psycho]

Sounds like Brown's son is done with him talking about hockey lol. His daughter is adorable.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Kings need to do something.

When healthy, Kupari can't sit everyday and Vilardi can't be in the AHL forever.

What about the second tier prospects like Dudas, Madden, Thomas, and JAD? Eventually, one of those players will break in and deserve a shot.

I have a feeling Vilardi, Turcotte, and Kupari are on the table in trades. Kings will likely at least move one of them.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Kings need to do something.

When healthy, Kupari can't sit everyday and Vilardi can't be in the AHL forever.

What about the second tier prospects like Dudas, Madden, Thomas, and JAD? Eventually, one of those players will break in and deserve a shot.

I have a feeling Vilardi, Turcotte, and Kupari are on the table in trades. Kings will likely at least move one of them.

Vilardi, JAD, LA 1st in 2022 and Roy for Chycrun.....done like dinner

 

[Fat Elvis]

I love lamp

 

[Cheech89]

Vilardi, JAD, LA 1st in 2022 and Roy for Chycrun.....done like dinner

Why trade Roy? He's been our most reliable D past couple of years.